Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 09:07 AM
 
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The green line is a "VERY" respectable in-room graph for a $170.00, 12" subwoofer. Very nice. With a bit of Audyssey MultEQ XT as an EQ encouragement, this sub has very nice potential.

http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/lsp12-subwoofer/lsp12-measurements

"The green plot is the response of the test subwoofer as measured in the room with no custom calibration data used."

image_preview

Good advice at the bottom of the article:

"Recommendations

Below 35Hz, the Lava subs measured response drops off pretty quickly. If you’re interested in wringing out every last drop of LF performance your sub and room are capable of, use your AVR’s bass management system. You will want to place the LSP12 in a corner; room gain and EQ’ing are essential if frequency-wise you’re hoping to hit the lowest portions of the LSP12’s output. One may just do the trick for you, but get two and really have some fun."
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post #1982 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

The green line is a "VERY" respectable in-room graph for a $170.00, 12" subwoofer. Very nice. With a bit of Audyssey MultEQ XT as an EQ encouragement, this sub has very nice potential.

http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/lsp12-subwoofer/lsp12-measurements

"The green plot is the response of the test subwoofer as measured in the room with no custom calibration data used."

image_preview

Good advice at the bottom of the article:

"Recommendations

Below 35Hz, the Lava subs measured response drops off pretty quickly. If you’re interested in wringing out every last drop of LF performance your sub and room are capable of, use your AVR’s bass management system. You will want to place the LSP12 in a corner; room gain and EQ’ing are essential if frequency-wise you’re hoping to hit the lowest portions of the LSP12’s output. One may just do the trick for you, but get two and really have some fun."

Yep. Duals of these for $340 would be pretty good. And regular MultEQ should work about as well, if I'm not mistaken. MultEQ and the XT version differ in the number of speaker filters, but the number of subwoofer filters remain the same. There are two more measurement positions with XT, but unless the algorithm being applied with the filters is significantly different, the difference between the two for EQing the sub may be marginal at best.

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post #1983 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 09:45 AM
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^^

Note that Chris K seems to confirm that about MultEQ vs XT over on the Ask Audyssey website.

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post #1984 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You might need to listen to one, then.

Here's someone that owns Seaton and CHT subs describing a very positive experience with the Lava LSP12, and thought it a good value at $300. And here's another post where someone was happy with the dual LSP10's compared to his BIC PL-200:
Then here are some pictures comparing the Lava driver to the BIC PL-200's. Looks like a better driver.

Indeed. Jim, You may be surprised by the Lavas. I purchased a pair of LSP-12s (based on that review) for my bother about 2-3 years ago as a birthday gift and they have performed reliably on a daily basis since then. The only known issue with these subs was that the amp seemed to be more sensitive to ground loop hum. They sound great with music and deep bass extension can become respectable once placed in-room. They also remain relatively clean and gracefully bow out when pushed at high levels. When they were priced around $300, I happily chose it over the PL200. At $170, these are a steal.
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post #1985 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 11:33 AM
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Well, I'm glad I was paying attention to this thread. I just snagged one of the LSP12's to replace my Dayton SUB1200. I was giving a hard look at the PL200 but this definitely seems like the better buy for the money. Thanks for the heads up!
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post #1986 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 01:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Anodyne View Post

Well, I'm glad I was paying attention to this thread. I just snagged one of the LSP12's to replace my Dayton SUB1200. I was giving a hard look at the PL200 but this definitely seems like the better buy for the money. Thanks for the heads up!


...biggrin.gif

We'll look forward to your first impressions.
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post #1987 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

Indeed. Jim, You may be surprised by the Lavas. I purchased a pair of LSP-12s (based on that review) for my bother about 2-3 years ago as a birthday gift and they have performed reliably on a daily basis since then. The only known issue with these subs was that the amp seemed to be more sensitive to ground loop hum. They sound great with music and deep bass extension can become respectable once placed in-room. They also remain relatively clean and gracefully bow out when pushed at high levels. When they were priced around $300, I happily chose it over the PL200. At $170, these are a steal.

$170 is probably a real good deal, but I still have my reservations about what it's capable of. The reviews I was able to find on the LSP12 all pretty much said that the lower 30's were about all it had to give, and some of the charts show a pronounced rise in the mid-bass region, hence my comment about one-note. I haven't heard one though, so my assessment is primarily extrapolated from what I've read. I'm not surprised they've proven reliable -- and aren't an Acoustic Audio type of mess -- because TruAudio is a solid company. The CSUB 12 I reviewed was a well designed subwoofer, and it appeared they used quality parts.

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post #1988 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

$170 is probably a real good deal, but I still have my reservations about what it's capable of. The reviews I was able to find on the LSP12 all pretty much said that the lower 30's were about all it had to give, and some of the charts show a pronounced rise in the mid-bass region, hence my comment about one-note.

I don't understand what the "one note" has to do with the high tuning point, rolled off frequency response. Was it the Cadence 12" or 15" that you regularly recommended that has the same kind of peaky, fast dropping frequency response?
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/csx15-mark-ii/csx15-mark-ii-measurements
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/review-cadence-csx-12-mark-ii-subwoofer-page-4

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post #1989 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I don't understand what the "one note" has to do with the high tuning point, rolled off frequency response. Was it the Cadence 12" or 15" that you regularly recommended that has the same kind of peaky, fast dropping frequency response?
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/csx15-mark-ii/csx15-mark-ii-measurements
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/review-cadence-csx-12-mark-ii-subwoofer-page-4

I didn't regularly recommend the Cadence. As usual, your facts are off.

A peak in the mid-bass region often denotes a sub that gets classified as being "one note". That's something quite well known.

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post #1990 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I didn't regularly recommend the Cadence. As usual, your facts are off.

Are you recanting your review of the Cadence now?

Maybe I misremember. But I'm pretty sure you recommended it AFTER you gave the CSX12 such a glowing review:
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I was so impressed at times with what the CSX12 was capable of that I felt compelled to finally add a few of the more demanding movie scenes to my testing regimen . . .
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I use a combination of lossy and lossless material -- MP3's and CD's -- to see how musical a subwoofer is, and in both instances the CSX12 pleasantly surprised me.

Why am I surprised? It's a budget minded bass reflex subwoofer, which is not the first thing that springs to mind when you think about music. But guess what, the CSX12 can indeed play music with good agility. It rarely lags, hitting sharp and hard far more often then not, which is precisely what music demands.
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For those who took the time to read this entire review you probably already have a good feeling about what the conclusion will ultimately be, but I'll say it anyway; Cadence has a winner on their hands with the CSX12. It can deftly navigate both music and home theater with equal poise and balance.

And again
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The CSX-12 is a good subwoofer, especially at it's current price.

And this sub is definitely like the Lava if you look at S&V's measurements, where they even say, "The only thing it lacks is ?30 Hz power, but you’ll need something a lot bigger and/or a lot more expensive to get that."

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post #1991 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 05:34 PM
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A peak in the mid-bass region often denotes a sub that gets classified as being "one note". That's something quite well known.

Yeah. I'm not buying that as a generalization--either that's regularly accepted or it makes sense. I think there are more factors than that which go into making a sub sound like a "one note wonder." Can you explain why that is? Or just parroting something you heard?

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Fight!

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post #1993 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 05:48 PM
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Damn you all. I know the name of this thread is budget subs but it ain't worth Nutting up about. Just admit both the subs are crap.
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post #1994 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 06:31 PM
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I could be mistaken but wasn't the pronounced mid bass response a factor only when using the line- in connection? Either way I didn't experience such a huge midbass peak when setting these subs up using the LFE connection. These subs are far from one note boom boxes in my opinion.
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post #1995 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Are you recanting your review of the Cadence now?

How on earth is it possible that you're confused by your own statements? Since when is "regularly recommended" and "recanting my review" even remotely alike? Stick to one angle.

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post #1996 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kesando View Post

I could be mistaken but wasn't the pronounced mid bass response a factor only when using the line- in connection? Either way I didn't experience such a huge midbass peak when setting these subs up using the LFE connection. These subs are far from one note boom boxes in my opinion.

The input used won't change the overall shape of the frequency response, so it should be pretty much the same. In some cases -- like with Rythmik subwoofers -- the line in and LFE will alter how high the frequency response will go, but the general shape is the same.

I'm glad the Lava's worked out for your friend. If he enjoyed them for $300 then maybe for $170 they would be a really good deal. The current model has been out for 3-4 years now, so hopefully they're about to release an update.

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post #1997 of 2924 Old 11-03-2013, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

How on earth is it possible that you're confused by your own statements? Since when is "regularly recommended" and "recanting my review" even remotely alike? Stick to one angle.

I'm not confused by my statements. You recommended the CSX12 very strongly with a glowing review, and then eight months later again confirmed that again--whether or not you did it more frequently is not the issue. Reconcile your review and recommendation of the CSX12, which apparently has a similar type response to the Lava LSP12, with the fact that you think the Lava will be a "one note" sub. Your CSX12 review DEFINITELY does not describe a one note sub. Either the CSX12 probably should have been a one note sub, too, by your reasoning, or the Lava could just as easily not be one--thus illustrating the fallibility of the "one note" subwoofer opinion. Explain how that is possible that you can feel certain that you are right on both counts, especially when you have ZERO experience with the Lava sub, instead of dodging the point of argument.

And personally, because I believe that armchair "quarterback" style subwoofer opinions with such little evidence to support them don't easily trump user testimonials and professional reviews that have experience with a product, I think it would be easier to acknowledge kesando's experience that the sub is not a boomy, one note sub, instead of still pursuing this discussion. Especially given the other positive testimonials for the sub (read the Lava thread) and the Audioholics review where they give it a "Good" score for bass accuracy and a "Very Good" score for performance value for a $300 sub.

So can you address the issue that your opinions about these two subs seem in conflict with each other?

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post #1999 of 2924 Old 11-04-2013, 12:59 AM
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Which would be better: dual Lava LSP12s ($340) or one SVS PB-1000 ($499)?smile.gif
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The SVS without a doubt. Might also consider HSU VTF-2.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainsworth View Post

Which would be better: dual Lava LSP12s ($340) or one SVS PB-1000 ($499)?smile.gif
What size is your room? For movies or music or both?

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post #2003 of 2924 Old 11-04-2013, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ainsworth View Post

Which would be better: dual Lava LSP12s ($340) or one SVS PB-1000 ($499)?smile.gif


 I do not know sh*t from shinola in the high end audio world, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once....

 

2 12's vs 1 10? Really?  Come on man...

 

On another subject.

 

I emailed NXG about the availability of the NX-BAS-500 & they said...

 

We had some great reviews on it and customer demand skyrocketed - we didn't have anywhere near enough of them on hand - our forecasts were way off...
Short story is we're scrambling to make more of them but it will take some time to get them manufactured and shipped to the US - shipping alone usually takes about 30 days. No firm back-in-stock date yet but I suspect it will be about 60 days or so...

 

So I purchased the Dayton 1200.  SO far I am happy, but I bet the farm I would be happier with two!  LOL

 

I am now considering a purchase of a Lava LSP12 just for S&G's.

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Damn you all. I know the name of this thread is budget subs but it ain't worth Nutting up about. Just admit both the subs are crap.

Buzz kill. tongue.gif

Not everybody has the bucks for the good stuff and besides, much of this forum is about personal entertainment, while we wait for something more exciting to stumble along. biggrin.gif

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post #2005 of 2924 Old 11-04-2013, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Really guys?

Charlie has a personal vendetta based upon a perceived slight (of someone else, no less). Key words are "perceived slight" because the alleged 'victim' took no offense, but for some inexplicable reason he did. His motives are quite transparent though, so I pay him no heed.

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I think we all need a round smile.gif

Or some shots of...



biggrin.gif

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I have to quit drinking as through personal blood pressure monitoring, drinking has been shown to elevate my blood pressure from pre-hypertension to stage two hypertension. Boo-hoo me. tongue.gif

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post #2008 of 2924 Old 11-04-2013, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ainsworth View Post

Which would be better: dual Lava LSP12s ($340) or one SVS PB-1000 ($499)?smile.gif

SVS PB-1000. You are talking 19Hz extension vs. 30Hz extension... The Lavas will probably win on 30Hz+ output, but for movies the SVS will really handle the LF content well. Dual Lava's aso bring you into PA-150 territory, and I would probably take the PA-150 over the Lava's.

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post #2009 of 2924 Old 11-04-2013, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I have to quit drinking as through personal blood pressure monitoring, drinking has been shown to elevate my blood pressure from pre-hypertension to stage two hypertension. Boo-hoo me. tongue.gif

(spend a lifetime learning to appreciate whiskey neat and the body turns on me. Now that's irony)

And that's something you truly don't want to mess with. So no cerveza's either I take it?

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post #2010 of 2924 Old 11-04-2013, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Charlie has a personal vendetta based upon a perceived slight (of someone else, no less). Key words are "perceived slight" because the alleged 'victim' took no offense, but for some inexplicable reason he did. His motives are quite transparent though, so I pay him no heed.
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I didn't regularly recommend the Cadence. As usual, your facts are off.

Really? Could you respond to the technical questions without making personal attacks? I don't think it would be appropriate (and against AVS policies) for me talk about your personal motives for your conduct and make judgements of this kind, not to mention this is off topic. If I said what I thought, I'm sure it would be modded.

The Lava sub had a good following at almost twice its current price. It's now $170. I've questioned your claims that it is a "one note" subwoofer, but instead you are making this about me instead of talking about subs. If you don't want to answer my questions, or cannot answer, that does not justify this kind of response.

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