Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 85 - AVS Forum
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post #2521 of 2962 Old 01-28-2014, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post


http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html

Doh. Forgot the HSU sight. $307 shipped, that's better!

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post #2522 of 2962 Old 01-28-2014, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I can't look at the mobile link, just takes me to ebay.com

Here's a non mobile link, I was posting from my phone. You could have also just taken the item # off the link url but here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Energy-Speakers-S10-3-10-Powered-Subwoofer-MINT-AND-COMPLETE-/201020070379

That will handily outperform any of the 8 inch options you are considering, but it's still a pretty compact sub. Energy subs (at least back before they were bought out) were well regarded for accuracy and low distortion, if not necessarily output/extension monsters relative to similarly priced (at msrp) ID offerings. But in room it should go down to around 25hz with ease. The S10.3 when it was being cleared out at $250 was one of the budget sub kings for a while. It's the same sub as the Mirage Omni S10 (Mirage and Energy were "sister" companies and shared a lot of IP like the patented ribbed elliptical woofer surround). If you just needed pure monster HT output I might go a different direction but since you mentioned accuracy and extension as your primary goals, and considering the budget you'd be hard presed to match its quality level unless you found a sick deal on a used SVS, Outlaw, etc.

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post #2523 of 2962 Old 01-29-2014, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by phillyd32 View Post

Reading reviews. I can't imagine an HSU, NXG or Velodyne not being more accurate
The review that Gmash posted agrees.

I only commented on the Sub-1200

Heh, he's the one who wrote that review, as well as the one for the NXG.
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post #2524 of 2962 Old 01-29-2014, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Here's a non mobile link, I was posting from my phone. You could have also just taken the item # off the link url but here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Energy-Speakers-S10-3-10-Powered-Subwoofer-MINT-AND-COMPLETE-/201020070379

That will handily outperform any of the 8 inch options you are considering, but it's still a pretty compact sub. Energy subs (at least back before they were bought out) were well regarded for accuracy and low distortion, if not necessarily output/extension monsters relative to similarly priced (at msrp) ID offerings. But in room it should go down to around 25hz with ease. The S10.3 when it was being cleared out at $250 was one of the budget sub kings for a while. It's the same sub as the Mirage Omni S10 (Mirage and Energy were "sister" companies and shared a lot of IP like the patented ribbed elliptical woofer surround). If you just needed pure monster HT output I might go a different direction but since you mentioned accuracy and extension as your primary goals, and considering the budget you'd be hard presed to match its quality level unless you found a sick deal on a used SVS, Outlaw, etc.
+1 If I wasnt dead set on the LV12r I have on the way I'd be tempted to buy that myself.

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post #2525 of 2962 Old 01-29-2014, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd32 View Post

Reading reviews. I can't imagine an HSU, NXG or Velodyne not being more accurate
The review that Gmash posted agrees.

I only commented on the Sub-1200
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Originally Posted by Gmash View Post

Heh, he's the one who wrote that review, as well as the one for the NXG.

Ya beat me to it... tongue.gif

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post #2526 of 2962 Old 01-29-2014, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

+1 If I wasnt dead set on the LV12r I have on the way I'd be tempted to buy that myself.

I own a LV12R and its an awesome sub..very very tight and it digs deep as well. I would pit this unit against any sealed unit you care to throw at in terms of articulate bass.
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post #2527 of 2962 Old 01-30-2014, 11:31 AM
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I have the chance to get 2 like new Energy S10.3 for $100 less than the price of a single Rhythmik LV12r. Room is 15x12x8.
Thoughts?

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post #2528 of 2962 Old 01-30-2014, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I have the chance to get 2 like new Energy S10.3 for $100 less than the price of a single Rhythmik LV12r.
Thoughts?

I still would go with the LV12R, and add another in the future if you need to.

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post #2529 of 2962 Old 01-30-2014, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I have the chance to get 2 like new Energy S10.3 for $100 less than the price of a single Rhythmik LV12r. Room is 15x12x8.
Thoughts?

In a room that size a pair of S10.3's should have plenty of headroom, so if you want duals to even out the response that's probably a worthwhile option to consider. The LV12R will have greater extension though, and my guess is the SQ will be better, so it all depends upon what you're ultimately trying to achieve.

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post #2530 of 2962 Old 01-30-2014, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I have the chance to get 2 like new Energy S10.3 for $100 less than the price of a single Rhythmik LV12r. Room is 15x12x8.
Thoughts?

Those used to regularly sell for around $200 ea new.

Since they are owned by Klipsch, Energy and Mirage produced the same subwoofers with only slight variations (see batpig's list at the end of his post). I have the Prestige S10, which is generally considered a slight step up in SQ from the S10.3/Mirage Omni S10. To me, the Outlaw LFM-1 EX has noticeably better SQ. So I would fully expect the LV12R to sound a good bit better than a single S10.3. If you would considering buying a second LV12R in the future at some point, I see no reason to get the S10.3s. You'll just have upgraditis again wink.gif

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post #2531 of 2962 Old 01-30-2014, 03:04 PM
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Just a slight correction -- the similarity of Energy/Mirage subs has absolutely nothing do with the Klipsch takeover. The Klipsch acquisition happened in 2006, but Energy and Mirage (along with Athena and I think a couple of other brands) were all united under the Canadian consortium API (Audio Products International) since the 1970's. Many of the "twin" subs were produced long before the Klipsch takeover, e.g. the ones under discussion (S10.3 and Omni S10) came out in 2003 or 2004.

In fact, since the Klipsch takeover neither brand has produced much new of consequence, and I don't think any new "twin" products with different branding. Since then Audiovox bought out the whole Klipsch group in 2011, and the only new products Energy has brought out have been soundbars, computer speakers, and awful "Power" subs with embarassingly poor specs. It seems like Audiovox has relegated Energy and Mirage to keep churning out their classic popular sub/sat offerings (Take Classic and RC-Micro for Energy, and Nanosat/Omnisat for Mirage) without any new product innovation.

Thankfully there's at least a couple of brands continuing the research legacy of the API group at the Canadian NRC (National Research Council) in Paul Barton (PSB) and Ian Colquhoun (Axiom).

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post #2532 of 2962 Old 01-30-2014, 03:26 PM
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I couldnt have picked 3 better guys to respond. All the big hitters. Good deal. And pretty much what I expected.
I knew these were made before the Klipsch takeover. In fact thats the only reason I was interested. And I remember very well that they used to sell for $199. I just missed out on that deal and tried like hell for a while to find an S10.3 near that price without luck. Thats how I ultimately ended up with the Klipsch RW12-d which was the next great deal.
I also feel like even 2 of the S10.3 will soon leave me with upgraditis. The added extension and accuracy of the LV12r is not only appealing but exactly what Im looking for. And I think the LV will have no problem filling my small room. Additionally I live alone so placing it near the listening position is not a problem. I would like smooth overall room response but its not a big concern. The main concern by far is how it sounds is in MY listening position. Along with the extra eq settings available on the Rhythmik and the simple fact that its brand new with a factory warranty and great customer support it seems to be the clear choice.
Thanks a lot guys.

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post #2533 of 2962 Old 01-30-2014, 03:33 PM
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The biggest issue with a single sub is seat-to-seat variance due to differing room modes. But if you are the only listener then that's less of an issue, as long as you aren't sitting in a deep null. If you have the flexibility to place it such that you aren't sitting in a null, then combined with electronic EQ, you should be able to get pretty smooth flat response at that single position.

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post #2534 of 2962 Old 01-30-2014, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The biggest issue with a single sub is seat-to-seat variance due to differing room modes. But if you are the only listener then that's less of an issue, as long as you aren't sitting in a deep null. If you have the flexibility to place it such that you aren't sitting in a null, then combined with electronic EQ, you should be able to get pretty smooth flat response at that single position.
I'll rearrange the entire room if need be. I can do as I please. I had the RW setup pretty well. I suspect the best place will be where I had the RW but I will do the sub crawl again to be sure.
Ive never had a good quality sub and the LV is it for me. Ive been waiting a long time for it because they have been out of stock for months. If I cant be happy with the LV in this small apt I might as well give up.

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post #2535 of 2962 Old 01-30-2014, 03:46 PM
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Might as well just scrap the furniture and sit on the Rythmik biggrin.gif

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post #2536 of 2962 Old 01-30-2014, 03:52 PM
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Might as well just scrap the furniture and sit on the Rythmik biggrin.gif
LOL I will if thats what it takes. If you see me selling furniture in the Classifieds youll know whats going on.
I just sold everything I had and got 4 Ascend 170s and a 340C as a system upgrade. The Rhythmik will be the icing on the cake.

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post #2537 of 2962 Old 01-30-2014, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Just a slight correction -- the similarity of Energy/Mirage subs has absolutely nothing do with the Klipsch takeover. The Klipsch acquisition happened in 2006, but Energy and Mirage (along with Athena and I think a couple of other brands) were all united under the Canadian consortium API (Audio Products International) since the 1970's. Many of the "twin" subs were produced long before the Klipsch takeover, e.g. the ones under discussion (S10.3 and Omni S10) came out in 2003 or 2004.

In fact, since the Klipsch takeover neither brand has produced much new of consequence, and I don't think any new "twin" products with different branding. Since then Audiovox bought out the whole Klipsch group in 2011, and the only new products Energy has brought out have been soundbars, computer speakers, and awful "Power" subs with embarassingly poor specs. It seems like Audiovox has relegated Energy and Mirage to keep churning out their classic popular sub/sat offerings (Take Classic and RC-Micro for Energy, and Nanosat/Omnisat for Mirage) without any new product innovation.

Thankfully there's at least a couple of brands continuing the research legacy of the API group at the Canadian NRC (National Research Council) in Paul Barton (PSB) and Ian Colquhoun (Axiom).

Thanks for the history lesson smile.gif

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post #2538 of 2962 Old 01-31-2014, 11:15 PM
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I'm trying to rebuild my HT setup. New house, old TV broke, old receiver doesn't have HDMI, etc. so it's a work in progress. Right now I have four Yamaha NS-A60X bookshelves (3-way 8" 5-1/4" 3/4") and a Yamaha NS-AC40X center channel. I'm thinking about replacing the fronts with some Sony SSF-7000 floorstanding speakers (dual 8", 3.25" and 1", 180W). But sub first.

Usage will be about 90% movies. I'd like to get those deep low effects on the LFE track. The room is about 19' by 10' with 7' high ceiling. About 1260 cu.ft. It's in the basement with foundation walls on one long side and two short sides. Those walls are sheetrock with a 2x4 cavity full of insulation against the concrete foundation.

I want to spend < $500 on sub. Rythmik LV12R is too expensive.

Considering Hsu STF-2, SVS PB-1000, BIC F12, and the PA-150.
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post #2539 of 2962 Old 02-01-2014, 03:34 AM
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The PA-150 is easily the best choice imo.
This is likely the best place to get it. Offer him $399 and he'll probably take it.

http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=711&crid=189&cat_name=Search
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post #2540 of 2962 Old 02-01-2014, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Usage will be about 90% movies. I'd like to get those deep low effects on the LFE track. The room is about 19' by 10' with 7' high ceiling. About 1260 cu.ft. It's in the basement with foundation walls on one long side and two short sides. Those walls are sheetrock with a 2x4 cavity full of insulation against the concrete foundation.

I want to spend < $500 on sub. Rythmik LV12R is too expensive.

Considering Hsu STF-2, SVS PB-1000, BIC F12, and the PA-150.

In a space that size I'd probably go for the PB-1000 myself. The room I tested one in is about 1800 ft^3, and it had no problem. The amount of concrete could be an issue though, especially the slab floor. The solidity of that structure has a tendency to minimize the "rumble" effect, which often means you have to use more subwoofer than you would if your theater was on a suspended floor.

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post #2541 of 2962 Old 02-01-2014, 07:18 AM
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It has monster output but doesn't it roll off steeply below 30-35hz or so? Considering the tiny room and that he's wiling to spend the full $500 I would think the PB-1000 is the way to go.

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post #2542 of 2962 Old 02-01-2014, 07:33 AM
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It has monster output but doesn't it roll off steeply below 30-35hz or so? Considering the tiny room and that he's wiling to spend the full $500 I would think the PB-1000 is the way to go.

I'm currently looking for a sub and have a 1200 cubic ft room and looking at the SVS SB-2000. Probably too much for the small room but what the hell!
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post #2543 of 2962 Old 02-01-2014, 08:39 AM
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I'm currently looking for a sub and have a 1200 cubic ft room and looking at the SVS SB-2000. Probably too much for the small room but what the hell!

You can never have too much sub. Only too little smile.gif

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post #2544 of 2962 Old 02-01-2014, 10:00 AM
 
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And then some come along and bag on me for encouraging the buying of more.

(what's with that?)

...confused.gif

(reads as if one of my detractors qualifies as conflicted)

(that's a polite way of saying.....busted)

...tongue.gif
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post #2545 of 2962 Old 02-01-2014, 02:49 PM
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And then some come along and bag on me for encouraging the buying of more.

(what's with that?)

...confused.gif

(reads as if one of my detractors qualifies as conflicted)

(that's a polite way of saying.....busted)

...tongue.gif

There's a big difference between supporting mbroadus in his choice to buy a specific sub, and telling someone that they need to spend "more" to buy "more" sub than they probably need.

Now, if you would really like to open up your recommendation history to criticism, I suggest starting a new thread about that. It would seem inappropriate to start that conversation here. I'm sure many people would be happy to participate if you did so. smile.gif

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post #2546 of 2962 Old 02-01-2014, 03:09 PM
 
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There's a big difference between supporting mbroadus in his choice to buy a specific sub, and telling someone that they need to spend "more" to buy "more" sub than they probably need.

No there isn't.

Face it, you got owned by your own words.

...tongue.gif

As to my recommendation history, I'll let me signatures do my talking:

"I'm a subwoofer enabler."

"Subwoofers are a money pit of happiness. The more one throws down the rat hole labeled subwoofers, the happier the individual becomes."

"I am not the voice of reason."

If you want to see yourself as the voice of reason.........go for it but don't think you can saddle me with your bridle.

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post #2547 of 2962 Old 02-04-2014, 08:29 AM
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Lava LSP12 for $170 is back!

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post #2548 of 2962 Old 02-04-2014, 08:37 AM
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Lava LSP12 for $170 is back!

That sounds like a killer deal, and it's free shipping.

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post #2549 of 2962 Old 02-04-2014, 09:04 AM
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Lava LSP12 for $170 is back!

How do they compare to the Bic H-100?
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post #2550 of 2962 Old 02-04-2014, 10:55 AM
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How does that lava sub compare to an HSU STF-1 for music? It's $140 cheaper.

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