Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 91 - AVS Forum
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post #2701 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 10:44 AM
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As long as people aren't getting sick of this, I'd like to keep throwing some of my findings up. Never heard of this company but the specs seem alright.

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ele/4341041739.html

http://www.hifiengine.com/library/atlantic-technology/model-272-pbm-thx.shtml

 

Might be a bit old, not really sure.. I really should just stick to a new sub with how little info I know about these :P

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post #2702 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 10:47 AM
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Howabout something like this? way over my budget... but it seems like a steal.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ele/4338446735.html

Hmmm. An 8 to 10 year old sub model for $350, that has a measured frequency response like this:



Always ignore the marketing rhetoric in any sub description, and doubt the specs unless you have researched and found them to be accurate. smile.gif

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post #2703 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 10:49 AM
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Hmmm. An 8 to 10 year old sub model for $350, that has a measured frequency response like this:



Always ignore the marketing rhetoric in any sub description, and doubt the specs unless you have researched and found them to be accurate. smile.gif

Sorry I'm not super well versed in the freq response.. TO me that chart says it plays 20hz to 1k~ hz and seems pretty linear. How do I interepret it? is it bad or good? I assume bad... what would a good freq response look like?

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post #2704 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 10:51 AM
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Sorry I'm not super well versed in the freq response.. TO me that chart says it plays 20hz to 1k~ hz and seems pretty linear. How do I interepret it? is it bad or good? I assume bad... what would a good freq response look like?

Read the page that I linked to. They explain the chart at the bottom. The specs in that Ebay ad said 20 - 125 Hz ± 3 dB, but the measured response is 43hz to 172hz.

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post #2705 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 10:54 AM
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Sorry I'm not super well versed in the freq response..

Also, you said previously that you are interested in extension, right? As the most basic level, you have to learn how to read frequency response charts and understand what they tell before you can evaluate whether or not a sub will have the extension you want.

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post #2706 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 10:54 AM
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Read the page that I linked to. They explain the chart at the bottom. The specs in that Ebay ad said 20 - 125 Hz ± 3 dB, but the measured response is 43hz to 172hz.

Yeah I am reading through it. I guess it's all a foreign language to me =/ I honestly know very little about audio jargon.

 

"- 3dB point is at 43 hertz, the - 6dB point is at 32 Hz"

 

I guess I just have no idea what the -3db or -6db represent. They are obviously some standard of sound?

 

Either way it sounds like it's not getting a ton of extension according to you? :D

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post #2707 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 10:56 AM
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Also, you said previously that you are interested in extension, right? As the most basic level, you have to learn how to read frequency response charts and understand what they tell before you can evaluate whether or not a sub will have the extension you want.

Gotcha. I am sadly just going off of reviews and the manufacturers freq response #'s. Care to crash course me on how to read these freq response charts? cuz I have never spent any time learning this stuff.

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post #2708 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 10:57 AM
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If anyone interested, here is Velodyne WiConnect 10 on sale for 150 plus free shipping.

 

http://velodyne.com/special-offers/wiconnect-10-wireless.html

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post #2709 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 11:18 AM
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post #2710 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 11:25 AM
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Gotcha. I am sadly just going off of reviews and the manufacturers freq response #'s. Care to crash course me on how to read these freq response charts? cuz I have never spent any time learning this stuff.

Probably best to start your own thread for recommendations and express your interest in your original post in wanting to understand certain things more. It could easily clog up this thread smile.gif

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post #2711 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 11:26 AM
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Well I think one of you guys outbid me for this :( hah. oh well.

 

Would the Lava LSP12 be worth spending $230 for? Or am I better off with the NXG?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TruAudio-Lava-12-Subwoofer-250-watt-LSP12-/271408300800?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3f31320300

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post #2712 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 11:28 AM
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I guess I just have no idea what the -3db or -6db represent. They are obviously some standard of sound?
+/-3dB is the variance from a test level of output within a defined range of frequencies. If a sub is rated to play "flat" from, say, 24-260Hz +/-3dB at a given test level of output, all frequencies within that range will play at roughly the same level, with a variance no greater than 3dB louder or 3dB quieter.

Any peaks within that range will not exceed +3dB relative to the test level of output; and the extremes of the range (24Hz and 260Hz) will be at -3dB relative to the test level of output.

Outside of that range, the sub's output decreases, and possibly quite rapidly depending on the slope of the filter used.
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post #2713 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 11:37 AM
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+/-3dB is the variance from a test level of output within a defined range of frequencies. If a sub is rated to play "flat" from, say, 24-260Hz +/-3dB at a given test level of output, all frequencies within that range will play at roughly the same level, with a variance no greater than 3dB louder or 3dB quieter.

Any peaks within that range will not exceed +3dB relative to the test level of output; and the extremes of the range (24Hz and 260Hz) will be at -3dB relative to the test level of output.

Outside of that range, the sub's output decreases, and possibly quite rapidly depending on the slope of the filter used.

I see. So if it is outside of the +/- 3db range..it means it loses it's ability to really be that great outside of that range. Gotcha. I guess I just can't see how that chart demonstrates that.

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post #2714 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 11:40 AM
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Probably best to start your own thread for recommendations and express your interest in your original post in wanting to understand certain things more. It could easily clog up this thread smile.gif

I have my own thread on it.. but this one is significantly more active on the subject :D

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1519122/budget-sub-advice-for-a-2-1-system#post_24392796

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post #2715 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 11:43 AM
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Sorry I'm not super well versed in the freq response.. TO me that chart says it plays 20hz to 1k~ hz and seems pretty linear. How do I interepret it? is it bad or good? I assume bad... what would a good freq response look like?

 

+/- 3 db is also used as a standard as this is considered a noticeable difference in sound level for low frequencies(to my understanding).  So a subwoofer's rated ability is often referred to by what frequency range it is capable of playing with only a 3 dB variation in SPL.

 

Linear means a straight line with no curves, not a giant bell shaped curve.  That graph looks like "linear" response from at best, 40-90 Hz.  Once the line drops or rises more than 3 dB(according to the scale on the left side of the graph), it is no longer considered within the operating range.  So linear means a straight line from left to right in this scenario.

 

Here Is an example of a linear response from 20 Hz to 200 Hz:

 

Frequency Response/Acoustic Data:

PB-2000 Performance
**Frequency response graph does not denote maximum output capability.

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post #2716 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 11:47 AM
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+/- 3 db is also used as a standard as this is considered a noticeable difference in sound level for low frequencies(to my understanding).  So a subwoofer's rated ability is often referred to by what frequency range it is capable of playing with only a 3 dB variation in SPL.

 

Linear means a straight line with no curves, not a giant bell shaped curve.  That graph looks like "linear" response from at best, 40-90 Hz.  Once the line drops or rises more than 3 dB(according to the scale on the left side of the graph), it is no longer considered within the operating range.  So linear means a straight line from left to right in this scenario.

Right. That is making a lot of sense now. Thanks!

 

It's funny cuz if you look at the other chart it shows a much more steep curve but at a completely different dB range and that is what had me confused..plus I have no idea what the numbers on the right side of the chart mean.

 

In this instance with this velodyne sub, it seems less "linear" more of an abrupt drop of sub at a shorter frequency. I take this to mean that if I were to setup this sub in my system I'd want to set the crossover at something like 80hz so I keep the sub in "the sweet spot"?

 

Response of the subwoofer, normalized to the average level from 40 hertz to 80 Hz, indicates that the lower - 3dB point is at 36 Hz and the - 6dB point is at 31 Hz. The upper - 3dB point is at 83 Hz.

 

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post #2717 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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As long as people aren't getting sick of this, I'd like to keep throwing some of my findings up. Never heard of this company but the specs seem alright.
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I have my own thread on it.. but this one is significantly more active on the subject biggrin.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1519122/budget-sub-advice-for-a-2-1-system#post_24392796

It may be time to consider either starting a new thread or posting in your other one. This topic is starting to generate a considerable number of posts.

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post #2718 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 11:57 AM
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It's funny cuz if you look at the other chart it shows a much more steep curve but at a completely different dB range

The scaling on the left side will have a drastic effect on how steep the curves, dips, and peaks in the frequency response appear.  It is important to pay attention to how the Y axis(left side) is scaled when looking at these charts.  If this chart were scaled 0-1000 dB, the line would look extremely flat(although close to the bottom).  The smaller the SPL range on the left side, the more detail it will show, increasing the appearance and steepness of dips and peaks.


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post #2719 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 11:59 AM
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I guess I just can't see how that chart demonstrates that.
Another way of saying +/-3dB is +0/-6dB. The peak represents the +0. Follow the curve both to the left and the right and find the points at which it is down by 6dB from the peak. Now you have three points:
- -6dB at the low end (let's say that it's at 40Hz)
- +0dB at the peak
- -6dB at the high end (let's say that it's at 90Hz).

If you were to draw a horizontal line mid-way between the 0dB level and the -6dB level, you could now describe that frequency range as 40-90Hz +/-3dB.

You'd still get output outside of that range, but the output would be increasingly be weaker. And because it would be outside of the +3dB or -3dB variance that is generally considered to be "un-noticeable" to most people, it would be noticeably weaker.
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post #2720 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 12:04 PM
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It may be time to consider either starting a new thread or posting in your other one. This topic is starting to generate a considerable number of posts.

Thanks Jim, I did! Back to asking which would someone recommend..

 

The Lava LSP12 for $240 shipped on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TruAudio-Lava-12-Subwoofer-250-watt-LSP12-/271408300800?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3f31320300

 

Or the NXG new for $260 from an authorized dealer.

http://www.amazon.com/NXG-Technology-NX-BAS-500-500-watt-Subwoofer/dp/B008FSTU4G/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A28SS3BS1DBQ92

 

Thoughts on these two?

 

Also thanks for all the answers guys. It makes a ton more sense now. I'll phrase it as.. I want to find the sweet spot where the range doesn't decrease drastically on a sub. That one chart bear123 posted looks beefy :D probably out of my price range.

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Are these Epik's any good?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EPIK-EMPIRE-POWERED-SUBWOOFER-600-WATT-2-15-Bass-Woofers-Home-Theater-/271407406139?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3f31245c3b
I haven't been able to find a ton about them.

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post #2724 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 03:14 PM
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Are these Epik's any good?
As far as performance goes, yes. As long as you don't have any problem with the amps. And you don't care about the fact that the company is no longer in business.

IMO, stop wasting your time chasing used subs. If you can spend $150, get a Dayton SUB-1200. If you can spend more, get two of them. Personally, I think you should just save up your money and get an SVS PB-1000.

Happy shopping! smile.gif
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As far as performance goes, yes. As long as you don't have any problem with the amps. And you don't care about the fact that the company is no longer in business.

IMO, stop wasting your time chasing used subs. If you can spend $150, get a Dayton SA-1200. If you can spend more, get two of them. Personally, I think you should just save up your money and get an SVS PB-1000.

Happy shopping! smile.gif

Fair enough. I'm feeling that way too. Thanks for the input and sorry to manhandle the thread for so long.

 

Do you think two Dayton SUB-1200's (I think that's what you were referring to) at $300~ is better or worse than one NXG 500? I honestly don't think I want to spend $500 on a sub no matter what. There are a few other more important purchases for me that I'd rather not all spend on the Sub. My receiver/bookshelves were only $300 together so I'd like to keep my Sub below that.

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It is common to spend more on a sub than a pair of bookshelfs. Especially a decent sub. Welcome to AV.

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post #2727 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 03:33 PM
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It is common to spend more on a sub than a pair of bookshelfs. Especially a decent sub. Welcome to AV.

Well of course. I am talking bookshelves + receiver at $300. Based on my financial situation, I'd like to keep the sub under that..

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Well of course. I am talking bookshelves + receiver at $300. Based on my financial situation, I'd like to keep the sub under that..
Reread this thread from page 88. Its almost entirely about you. Nothing has changed. Time to make up your mind.

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post #2729 of 3001 Old 02-24-2014, 03:51 PM
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Reread this thread from page 88. Its almost entirely about you. Nothing has changed. Time to make up your mind.

alright alright easy. If you are done with the useful participation you can just say so. yeesh.

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alright alright easy. If you are done with the useful participation you can just say so. yeesh.

I admit it's hard to make a decision especially at your price point because you want quality sub for little money. If you're willing to spend $250 I would save up and get a svs pb1000. You won't regret as others stated.
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