Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 94 - AVS Forum
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post #2791 of 3001 Old 05-03-2014, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kezzbot View Post

So in other words, for the same money the smaller driver will give tighter cleaner sound. But as you in crease in size so must the $$ for better materials and power for sound quality to remain high.
It would be something like that if you were designing one. But when buying one that wont be the case. Some subwoofers are a great value and some are overpriced.
So, again, its not that simple.

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post #2792 of 3001 Old 05-03-2014, 05:34 PM
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Yeah well, I'm having a tough time understanding how a larger mass can start and stop and reverse directions as fast as a smaller mass.

In the case of subwoofers though, the differences are probably not great enough for that to be a deciding factor given a stiff enough material and a larger motor, i.e. magnet and power.
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post #2793 of 3001 Old 05-03-2014, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by charmerci View Post

Yeah well, I'm having a tough time understanding how a larger mass can start and stop and reverse directions as fast as a smaller mass.

In the case of subwoofers though, the differences are probably not great enough for that to be a deciding factor given a stiff enough material and a larger motor, i.e. magnet and power.

A small woofer has to move exponentially more than a larger driver to produce the same SPL.


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post #2794 of 3001 Old 05-03-2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by charmerci View Post

I'm having a tough time understanding how a larger mass can start and stop and reverse directions as fast as a smaller mass..
It can when the motive force is a few magnitudes of order higher than the mass being propelled, rendering inertia too slight to effectively influence the result. That is the case with moving coil drivers. And, as noted by bear123, a larger cone doesn't have to move as far for the same SPL as a smaller driver. Since it doesn't have to travel as far it also doesn't have to travel as fast to go from the excursion peak to peak. And then there's also the matter of electrical to acoustical efficiency, which is higher with a larger cone than a smaller cone, even when both use the exact same motor. There is only one advantage to a smaller cone in and of itself, and that's the angle of dispersion, which decreases as frequency increases because the wavelengths produced become progressively smaller compared to the size of the cone. That must be compensated for by making the cone smaller as the band width produced goes higher in frequency, That is the primary reason why tweeters are smaller than midranges, which are smaller than midbasses, which are smaller than subwoofers.

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post #2795 of 3001 Old 05-03-2014, 10:00 PM
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That's very interesting, so as a rule would you suggest sticking with 12" or higher unless space is a issue?
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post #2796 of 3001 Old 05-04-2014, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Kezzbot View Post

That's very interesting, so as a rule would you suggest sticking with 12" or higher unless space is a issue?
Google 'Hoffman's Iron Law'. The only way to get high output at low frequencies with a small speaker is when that speaker has a very long excursion driver powered by a very high capacity amp. It can be done, but it greatly increases cost. In short, if you see a sub loaded with less than a twelve and it's not extremely expensive then it's not going to go either low or loud.

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post #2797 of 3001 Old 05-04-2014, 11:26 AM
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I just wanted to pop in and say that I can finally testify to the benefit of a dual sub setup. Last fall, I bought a Lava LSP-12 that replaced a Dayton SUB-1200. The difference was noticeable but not significantly so. But when the Lava subs went on their final closeout, I got a second one. After a couple months of breaking it in, I'm just blown away by the difference.

I listen to a lot of acoustic and bluegrass and it's night and day with a second sub. The upright bass sounds like it's right there in the room with me. It's not a one-note sound, either, which is what I was getting from the single SUB-1200.

With movies, I get a much more immersive feel and the action scenes are so much better that even if my wife's in another room, she gets a bit upset. smile.gif

I have a large, open room and before with a single sub setup, there was really only one decent viewing spot. Now, there's not a bad spot in the room.

I was doubtful at first because I just wasn't really hearing or feeling the difference. But I also have been so busy with work that I didn't get a chance to break it quickly. Two months later and I'd never be able to go back to a single sub again.

SHORT VERSION: Everyone on a budget with a large room should get a second sub!
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post #2798 of 3001 Old 05-04-2014, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anodyne View Post

I just wanted to pop in and say that I can finally testify to the benefit of a dual sub setup. Last fall, I bought a Lava LSP-12 that replaced a Dayton SUB-1200. The difference was noticeable but not significantly so. But when the Lava subs went on their final closeout, I got a second one. After a couple months of breaking it in, I'm just blown away by the difference.

I listen to a lot of acoustic and bluegrass and it's night and day with a second sub. The upright bass sounds like it's right there in the room with me. It's not a one-note sound, either, which is what I was getting from the single SUB-1200.

With movies, I get a much more immersive feel and the action scenes are so much better that even if my wife's in another room, she gets a bit upset. smile.gif

I have a large, open room and before with a single sub setup, there was really only one decent viewing spot. Now, there's not a bad spot in the room.

I was doubtful at first because I just wasn't really hearing or feeling the difference. But I also have been so busy with work that I didn't get a chance to break it quickly. Two months later and I'd never be able to go back to a single sub again.

SHORT VERSION: Everyone on a budget with a large room should get a second sub!

But did you try the Lava with the Dayton?
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post #2799 of 3001 Old 05-04-2014, 05:51 PM
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No, I heeded the advice on here to not mix different brands/models of subs. I'm currently using the Dayton as part of a 2.1 setup in the bedroom. It works well enough for that application.
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post #2800 of 3001 Old 05-05-2014, 11:26 AM
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Just noticed that the JBL SUB150P is back in stock at Newegg for $199. Time to watch for sales on it.

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post #2801 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Just noticed that the JBL SUB150P is back in stock at Newegg for $199. Time to watch for sales on it.

Damn. It's now $129!

With that being on sale, I figured I should finally try and figure out what I should do sub-wise... I'm trying to keep it under $200 if possible.

Room is about 15' wide, by 32' long, and ~10-11' high. We use about half the room as our main TV/Movie/video gaming area, with some occasional loud music playing thrown in. The sub I have is a little rinky dink 8" Yamaha that worked fine in my apartment, but is severely lacking in this much larger space.

https://i.imgur.com/iHa7T1I.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sSshicE.jpg

(linked for size!)

As you can see.. the room isn't sealed.. like at all. On the other side of the room is an even bigger arch.

The main issues I have, are a) I only have bookshelf speakers, so mid-bass is fairly lacking. They're the Cambridge Audio s30s, and while they do a decent job, theres only so much they can do.. and b) Sub placement.. it's basically limited to either side of that little media console.

With all that being said.. a 10" or 12" sub seems reasonable. 10" might fit in that space better, and not walk all over those little bookshelf speakers.. but you know.. bigger is better.

With that JBL being $129, I'm seriously considering it. Other than that.. my other idea was the Dayton Sub-1200, also $129, but with $15 shipping vs Neweggs $2 shipping.

On the pricier end of the range, is the BIC F-12 or V1220. I'm not against those, I just wonder if they'll really bring anything different to the party for that stupid room, that's worth the extra ~$70 or so.
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post #2802 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 02:27 PM
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You definitely need 2 subs. I suggest 2 of the JBL 150s.

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post #2803 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 04:43 PM
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I am looking for a subwoofer to pair with my Audioengine A5+.

 

Criteria:

  • 8-10" (could go bigger)
  • 100% for music
  • STRICT $450 budget
  • My room will be small, carpeted. 8-9' ceilings with about a 12x16 room. Mostly nearfield listening.
  • I really want good extension and accuracy. I listen to a lot of music with detailed bass.
  • I either need high pass crossover for my speakers or $40 to get crossover filters for my speakers.
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post #2804 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by phillyd32 View Post

I am looking for a subwoofer to pair with my Audioengine A5+.

Criteria:
  • 8-10"
  • 100% for music
  • STRICT $450 budget SHIPPED
  • My room will be small, carpeted. 8-9' ceilings with about a 12x16 room. Mostly nearfield listening.
  • I really want good extension and accuracy. I listen to a lot of music with detailed bass.
  • I either need high pass crossover for my speakers or $40 to get crossover filters for my speakers.
Get this quickly before someone else does.
http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials/sb-1000-outlet-ba_3#.U2rKUc7D_bU
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post #2805 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You definitely need 2 subs. I suggest 2 of the JBL 150s.
Ahh.. 2 just won't cut it due to the limited space. If you had to go with one, which way would you go?

e: I could potentially downsize the media cabinet, it's modular.. and end up with a little more room, but that needs to pass the wife factor as well. frown.gif Suppose I did do that, is there anything special I need? My receiver only has the one sub output.
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post #2806 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 05:38 PM
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post #2807 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post


Get this quickly before someone else does.
http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials/sb-1000-outlet-ba_3#.U2rKUc7D_bU

Might not have the money for a couple weeks. Backup options?

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post #2808 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd32 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Get this quickly before someone else does.
http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials/sb-1000-outlet-ba_3#.U2rKUc7D_bU
Might not have the money for a couple weeks. Backup options?

If you want a compact sub that is powerful, accurate and musical for $500 or less that is THE option.
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post #2809 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post


If you want a compact sub that is powerful, accurate and musical for $500 or less that is THE option.

I didn't say powerful OR compact.

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post #2810 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by phillyd32 View Post

Might not have the money for a couple weeks. Backup options?
When you get the money go to the SVS website and see if you can get the sb1000 at that price. Even if you have to spend $500 you wont regret it.
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post #2811 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurph98gt View Post

Damn. It's now $129!

With that being on sale, I figured I should finally try and figure out what I should do sub-wise... I'm trying to keep it under $200 if possible.

Room is about 15' wide, by 32' long, and ~10-11' high. We use about half the room as our main TV/Movie/video gaming area, with some occasional loud music playing thrown in. The sub I have is a little rinky dink 8" Yamaha that worked fine in my apartment, but is severely lacking in this much larger space.

A room that's a good 4800 ft^3 will swallow that little JBL whole. My guess is you wouldn't really hear enough of a difference from what you have now to warrant spending the money. The room is simply too large for either of those subwoofers. About the only one I can think of that hits your price point is the Dayton SUB-1500, but I don't imagine it falls within the size restrictions you have.
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post #2812 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by smurph98gt View Post

Damn. It's now $129!

Wow. That's the deal of the day. Too bad that they aren't stackable like cube shaped subs since you only have a spot for one (co-locating two works great).

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post #2813 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by smurph98gt View Post

Ahh.. 2 just won't cut it due to the limited space. If you had to go with one, which way would you go?

e: I could potentially downsize the media cabinet, it's modular.. and end up with a little more room, but that needs to pass the wife factor as well. frown.gif Suppose I did do that, is there anything special I need? My receiver only has the one sub output.
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post #2814 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

A room that's a good 4800 ft^3 will swallow that little JBL whole. My guess is you wouldn't really hear enough of a difference from what you have now to warrant spending the money. The room is simply too large for either of those subwoofers. About the only one I can think of that hits your price point is the Dayton SUB-1500, but I don't imagine it falls within the size restrictions you have.
Funnily enough, I had previously been looking around at the different 15" options, and it was seeing the SUB-1500 today that sent me down this rabbit hole of subwoofer choices (again....). I was seriously considering it, but I read some reviews about how it would just dominate anything less than a large bookshelf.

The funny thing about that SUB-1500, is that it's only about 2" wider than that JBL. If you think that it would work out decently with my Cambridge S30s, I might just have to jump on it. biggrin.gif

Thanks!
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post #2815 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurph98gt View Post

Funnily enough, I had previously been looking around at the different 15" options, and it was seeing the SUB-1500 today that sent me down this rabbit hole of subwoofer choices (again....). I was seriously considering it, but I read some reviews about how it would just dominate anything less than a large bookshelf.

The funny thing about that SUB-1500, is that it's only about 2" wider than that JBL. If you think that it would work out decently with my Cambridge S30s, I might just have to jump on it. biggrin.gif

I would contend otherwise myself; a properly configured and tuned subwoofer shouldn't dominate the S30's. While I've never heard them myself, I do have first hand experience with the SX-50 (which is probably not too different). I suspect the S30's would integrate with the SUB-1500 pretty well.
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post #2816 of 3001 Old 05-07-2014, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurph98gt View Post

Funnily enough, I had previously been looking around at the different 15" options, and it was seeing the SUB-1500 today that sent me down this rabbit hole of subwoofer choices (again....). I was seriously considering it, but I read some reviews about how it would just dominate anything less than a large bookshelf.

The funny thing about that SUB-1500, is that it's only about 2" wider than that JBL. If you think that it would work out decently with my Cambridge S30s, I might just have to jump on it. biggrin.gif

Thanks!
I agree with Jim about the 1500 and S30s. If you can only get 1 sub get the 1500.
And then another 1500 later.
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post #2817 of 3001 Old 05-08-2014, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by phillyd32 View Post

I didn't say powerful OR compact.

Based on your stipulations, that seems to be what you are going for... A small room with a sub in nearfield probably means you don't have space for a giant ported behemoth. Also to get "good extension and accuracy" you need to have a capable sub. $500 is the starting point for good bass in my opinion, and that SB-1000 recommendation is excellent. Usually you can get a B-stock one for $450, but even at $500 new it is an excellent sub. It also has an 80Hz high-pass filter so you can integrate it well without a receiver.

The HSU VTF-1 MK2 is another good choice, it will have higher output being ported, and likely better low end output, but with shipping it comes to $500. The nice thing is you get some more tuning options with it, and using the port plugs, you can cater the bass to your liking. It doesn't have a high pass filter but the crossover slope is steeper making it pretty effective.
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post #2818 of 3001 Old 05-08-2014, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

Based on your stipulations, that seems to be what you are going for... A small room with a sub in nearfield probably means you don't have space for a giant ported behemoth. Also to get "good extension and accuracy" you need to have a capable sub. $500 is the starting point for good bass in my opinion, and that SB-1000 recommendation is excellent. Usually you can get a B-stock one for $450, but even at $500 new it is an excellent sub. It also has an 80Hz high-pass filter so you can integrate it well without a receiver.

The HSU VTF-1 MK2 is another good choice, it will have higher output being ported, and likely better low end output, but with shipping it comes to $500. The nice thing is you get some more tuning options with it, and using the port plugs, you can cater the bass to your liking. It doesn't have a high pass filter but the crossover slope is steeper making it pretty effective.

I'd probably go for the PB-1000 over the VTF-1 MK2 for a ported sub. I've heard that those $40 crossover filters can be kind of crappy. I don't think I'd want to use them as high pass filters.

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post #2819 of 3001 Old 05-08-2014, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post


Based on your stipulations, that seems to be what you are going for... A small room with a sub in nearfield probably means you don't have space for a giant ported behemoth. Also to get "good extension and accuracy" you need to have a capable sub. $500 is the starting point for good bass in my opinion, and that SB-1000 recommendation is excellent. Usually you can get a B-stock one for $450, but even at $500 new it is an excellent sub. It also has an 80Hz high-pass filter so you can integrate it well without a receiver.

The HSU VTF-1 MK2 is another good choice, it will have higher output being ported, and likely better low end output, but with shipping it comes to $500. The nice thing is you get some more tuning options with it, and using the port plugs, you can cater the bass to your liking. It doesn't have a high pass filter but the crossover slope is steeper making it pretty effective.

Thanks for the suggestion, I think if I had more knowledge about my tastes in bass, or if I was using it for more things than music, this would be a better option than the SVS.

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone! +thumbs up.

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post #2820 of 3001 Old 05-08-2014, 01:21 PM
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Dayton SUB-1500 ordered! Should be here next week!!

Thanks for the input guys, I can't wait to hook this bad boy up!
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