Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 98 - AVS Forum
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post #2911 of 3056 Old 06-30-2014, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
I bought an NXG NX-BAS 500 for a friend (hes gonna pay me back) and am having it delivered here. Dont know if hes gonna want to open it here and test it or not but if he does I'll post some amateur impressions. It would be interesting to hear in person how it compares to my Rhythmik LV12r.
It won't compare, trust me. The NXG is good, but it's not that good.

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post #2912 of 3056 Old 07-01-2014, 07:51 PM
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Ended up getting a lightly used PB10-NSD for $300 shipped. Looking forward to getting it.
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post #2913 of 3056 Old 07-02-2014, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
It won't compare, trust me. The NXG is good, but it's not that good.
And no one should expect it to. The Rythmik is $600 - more than double the $269 cost of the NXG and double the $300 upper boundary of this Budget Subwoofer discussion forum.
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post #2914 of 3056 Old 07-06-2014, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
I suspect you'll be pleasantly surprised by what the SUB-1200 can do, given it's price. After you've had the opportunity to get it broken in and tuned be sure to come back and post your thoughts.
Set up and dialed in the Dayton SUB-1200. Initial impression is that it goes a little lower than the towers, but with more authority. At the low volumes I play, it will likely take a good long while to "break-in".

On some of the reviews of the SUB-1200, an issue was raised with the auto-on not working well enough or perhaps not entirely as expected. Out of curiosity, I hooked up a kill-a-watt meter to the sub and noted the following:

When turned off, drew about 2 watts at 120 volts house current
When set to auto-on, with no signal, drew about 2 watts at 120 volts house current.
When turned on with no signal, drew about 6 watts at 120 volts house current.

So, leaving it on all the time vs turning off or leaving in auto-on mode uses an extra 4 watts / hour of house current (about the same as an old style incandescent night light). 4 watts x 24 hours x 365 days = 35040 watts / year , or about 35 kilowatts. 35 kilowatts * .15 cents / Kilowatt = ~ $5.25 / year more to leave the sub on all the time vs turning it off or leaving in auto mode.
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post #2915 of 3056 Old 07-07-2014, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by squash42 View Post
Set up and dialed in the Dayton SUB-1200. Initial impression is that it goes a little lower than the towers, but with more authority. At the low volumes I play, it will likely take a good long while to "break-in".

On some of the reviews of the SUB-1200, an issue was raised with the auto-on not working well enough or perhaps not entirely as expected. Out of curiosity, I hooked up a kill-a-watt meter to the sub and noted the following:

When turned off, drew about 2 watts at 120 volts house current
When set to auto-on, with no signal, drew about 2 watts at 120 volts house current.
When turned on with no signal, drew about 6 watts at 120 volts house current.

So, leaving it on all the time vs turning off or leaving in auto-on mode uses an extra 4 watts / hour of house current (about the same as an old style incandescent night light). 4 watts x 24 hours x 365 days = 35040 watts / year , or about 35 kilowatts. 35 kilowatts * .15 cents / Kilowatt = ~ $5.25 / year more to leave the sub on all the time vs turning it off or leaving in auto mode.
Nice post. Thanks for the wattage info.

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post #2916 of 3056 Old 07-07-2014, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squash42 View Post
Set up and dialed in the Dayton SUB-1200. Initial impression is that it goes a little lower than the towers, but with more authority. At the low volumes I play, it will likely take a good long while to "break-in".

On some of the reviews of the SUB-1200, an issue was raised with the auto-on not working well enough or perhaps not entirely as expected. Out of curiosity, I hooked up a kill-a-watt meter to the sub and noted the following:

When turned off, drew about 2 watts at 120 volts house current
When set to auto-on, with no signal, drew about 2 watts at 120 volts house current.
When turned on with no signal, drew about 6 watts at 120 volts house current.

So, leaving it on all the time vs turning off or leaving in auto-on mode uses an extra 4 watts / hour of house current (about the same as an old style incandescent night light). 4 watts x 24 hours x 365 days = 35040 watts / year , or about 35 kilowatts. 35 kilowatts * .15 cents / Kilowatt = ~ $5.25 / year more to leave the sub on all the time vs turning it off or leaving in auto mode.
That's weird. Why would it use 2 watts when it's off?
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post #2917 of 3056 Old 07-08-2014, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rrskda View Post
That's weird. Why would it use 2 watts when it's off?
OFF really isn't off per se. When set to OFF or AUTO with no signal present, the sub status led shows red. (inactive). When set to AUTO and a signal is present or set to ON, the led switches to Green (active). The only way to fully turn it off is by unplugging it or turning it off via an external switch.
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post #2918 of 3056 Old 07-08-2014, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Nice post. Thanks for the wattage info.
Thanks - I'm always curious about such things. It seems to be a very efficient amp. At my "normal" playing levels, the Kill-a-watt was showing readings from around 6 - 8 watts of house current being drawn. During testing at volume levels far louder than I would ever use (Sub test MP3 from Youtube, with the SUB-1200 cabinet audibly vibrating), the amp only pulled 38 watts peak of house current.

Also, the Dayton Audio Sub-link XR modules seem to be working exactly as expected / hoped for. No dropouts or interference issues thus far.
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post #2919 of 3056 Old 07-08-2014, 10:43 AM
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I haven't read this entire thread, but what about a comparison between a single NXG 500 and dual Dayton 1200's? Cost for both setups is nearly the same, so it would seem to beg the question.
Apologies if this question has already been asked and answered.
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post #2920 of 3056 Old 07-08-2014, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ck42 View Post
I haven't read this entire thread, but what about a comparison between a single NXG 500 and dual Dayton 1200's? Cost for both setups is nearly the same, so it would seem to beg the question.
Apologies if this question has already been asked and answered.

Dual Dayton's would have more total output and, if placed appropriately, enable you to smooth out some room modes.

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post #2921 of 3056 Old 07-08-2014, 05:23 PM
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That was my suspicion. Certainly, having two would allow for better dealing with room modes, as is nearly always the case with multiple subs...and it would seem intuitive that overall output would be greater. Just wondering if there was some technical reason why someone would go with a single NXG vs the dual Dayton setup - given that the price of both scenarios is about the same.
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post #2922 of 3056 Old 07-08-2014, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ck42 View Post
That was my suspicion. Certainly, having two would allow for better dealing with room modes, as is nearly always the case with multiple subs...and it would seem intuitive that overall output would be greater. Just wondering if there was some technical reason why someone would go with a single NXG vs the dual Dayton setup - given that the price of both scenarios is about the same.
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post #2923 of 3056 Old 07-08-2014, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Accuracy
+1

I found the Dayton was surprisingly good for the money, but to me the NXG was better. The additional $$ does buy extra output in certain situations, but it can also get you greater depth and precision.

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post #2924 of 3056 Old 07-08-2014, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
+1

I found the Dayton was surprisingly good for the money, but to me the NXG was better. The additional $$ does buy extra output in certain situations, but it can also get you greater depth and precision.
Ok cool. Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks.
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post #2925 of 3056 Old 08-19-2014, 08:47 PM
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My Paradigm PDR-10 (early version) just died and I'm looking to replace it. Boy, do I miss having a subwoofer in this last 24 hours! I initially was looking at a $200-300 replacement but now that I've perused this thread and cruised the net, I'm rethinking that price range.

My first thought was a Polk PSW505 which NewEgg is listing for $199 with shipping, though I've run across plenty of negative reviews here and elsewhere. BIC 12 and PL200 get some positive reviews, as well as the NXG500 and the budget-priced Daytona 1200. As I started to look further the SVS PR-1000 ($499 delivered) kept popping up as a recommended SW. I'm looking for some perspective.

I was very happy with the Paradigm SW, which I purchased used from somebody I know and have owned for several years. My setup is modest; Polk Monitor II 60s upfront, CS2 center and 30 surrounds with an Onkyo 609. The room is a great room with a cathedral ceiling, probably 20'X20'X15' in maximum dimensions, though the listening area is half of that with the ceiling achieving its rise above the listening area. The room is rather bass responsive, carpeted and oddly shaped with furniture and half-walls to complicate the picture. I can't emphasize how happy I have been with my current setup prior to the SW failure.

The bulk of use is movies/TV, though I do listen to ~ 20% music, mostly in 5.1. Music is mostly Rock, though Jazz and Classical (as well as other genres) are prominently in the mix.

Any thoughts?

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post #2926 of 3056 Old 08-19-2014, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DocCasualty View Post
My Paradigm PDR-10 (early version) just died and I'm looking to replace it. Boy, do I miss having a subwoofer in this last 24 hours! I initially was looking at a $200-300 replacement but now that I've perused this thread and cruised the net, I'm rethinking that price range.
So what is your budget now? $499? Then the PB-1000 or the Reaction Audio BPS 212 would be the way to go

Otherwise, your post reviewed pretty much all of the major contenders in that $200 to $300 range.

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post #2927 of 3056 Old 08-20-2014, 12:39 AM
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So what is your budget now? $499? Then the PB-1000 or the Reaction Audio BPS 212 would be the way to go

Otherwise, your post reviewed pretty much all of the major contenders in that $200 to $300 range.
Thanks for your reply. If $500 is a noticeable step up above those other SWs then yes, that's my budget now. I'm a pretty practical guy when it comes to audio. I appreciate good sound but am really not interested in marginal gains for significant jumps in expense, regardless if I could afford them. As I mentioned, I was quite happy with the the SW I had which probably was closer to the $500 range in today's dollars when it was new but as mentioned, I purchased it used so IDK.

If it's helpful to the discussion I am not interested in rattling the walls though like good LFEs while watching movies. I appreciate good bass in music and my tastes run through The Beatles, The Who, The Rolling Stones, Yes, Bob Marley, Weather Report, Pink Floyd, The Alan Parsons Project . . . basically Alternative to Zydeco, so I like hearing a good bass line in music. I'm a little concerned that some reviews of the lower end SWs keep referring to muddy or poorly timed bass response when listening to music. Actually I read some similar statements about my now defunct Paradigm, though I never heard that and these may actually have been in reference to newer models than mine which apparently incorporated some negative changes.

Again, I appreciate your thoughts and will look further into your suggestions. A quick Google shows that I could purchase the two RAs for the price of the one SVS, though I'm not sure I really have the space for a second SW or want to go that route. I will research that further though.

I see you're in GR. I live in Harbor Springs so there's little to listen to locally, though I'm not sure how helpful in-store demonstrations of SWs are since they seem to be so dependent on one's own set up. That's why I'm trying to get as good a sense as I can about these units.

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post #2928 of 3056 Old 08-20-2014, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DocCasualty View Post
The room is a great room with a cathedral ceiling, probably 20'X20'X15' in maximum dimensions, though the listening area is half of that with the ceiling achieving its rise above the listening area.
Due to the way a subwoofer works it will consider the listening area to be the entire volume of space, and in this case that's a whopping 6000 ft^3. I'm afraid there's no $500 subwoofer made that can handle such a large room. I'm wondering if your PDR died because it was being pushed well beyond its limits.


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If it's helpful to the discussion I am not interested in rattling the walls though like good LFEs while watching movies.
That persepctive might be your saving grace, because you're definitely not going to get a visceral sensation unless you spend significantly more. Given that, the suggestions made thus far will probably be the best options available.

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post #2929 of 3056 Old 08-20-2014, 07:36 AM
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Personally for that large space, I'd do the RA sub. The SVS is pretty good - from only what I've read. I have the older 200W RA bps212 and that thing puts out tons of bass. I have to keep it turned way down in my 17x12 room.
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post #2930 of 3056 Old 08-20-2014, 07:47 AM
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Get the better sub (SVS or RA). Stepping up from the $200-300 range to the $500 sub is still well before the point of marginal gains on the subwoofer price/performance curve, especially given the volume of your room. The lesser subs will go thud thud just fine and perhaps some (like the BIC PL2000) will have comparable output in the slam region, but the nicer subs will have more articulation, output and extension. Especially considering you like music.

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post #2931 of 3056 Old 08-20-2014, 07:58 AM
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For that room you need output. Check out the Premiere Acoustics PA-150.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...w_bottom_links
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post #2932 of 3056 Old 08-20-2014, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
I'm wondering if your PDR died because it was being pushed well beyond its limits.
Perhaps, though I had it set at 40% with 0dB at the AVR. The grille isn't easily removable, so I haven't looked at what exactly failed yet. It abruptly developed a rattle at low frequency so I surmise it's mechanical in nature and not electronic.
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That persepctive might be your saving grace, because you're definitely not going to get a visceral sensation unless you spend significantly more. Given that, the suggestions made thus far will probably be the best options available.
I appreciate your comments as well as those of the others who kindly replied. You really got me thinking about this and what I should do. As I mentioned earlier I was pleased with what the old PDR achieved but perhaps it's time to take a step up in performance. With that said I've started looking at more sub and like what I've read about the SVS PB2000. I guess I'm getting beyond the initial budget this thread was intended for but any other subs in the under $800 range that compete favorably with the PB2000? It seems the next step up is probably ~$1200 and that is more than I care to spend and probably bigger boxes than I would care to deal with.

An additional question: I've basically been looking at only ported SWs, is that probably the way to go with the set up I've described?

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post #2933 of 3056 Old 08-20-2014, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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It sounds like you're heading in the right direction, and for $800 or so you can get subwoofers that will be closer to what your room requires. However, those are also beyond the scope of this thread - it's really intended for $300 and below. At this point it's probably better if you start a new thread specific to your situation. That way people will be able to focus on your new direction.

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post #2934 of 3056 Old 08-21-2014, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Gmash View Post
For that room you need output. Check out the Premiere Acoustics PA-150.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...w_bottom_links
I'd have to agree with this, this thing is a monster when it comes to output. It doesn't dig as deep as the PB-1000, but it can keep up with some very expensive subs in the 40Hz+ region.

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post #2935 of 3056 Old 08-21-2014, 12:22 PM
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Looking for recommendations on a sub with a budget of ~$200. I've looked through some of the ones mentioned here, but am not sure which ones most appropriate.

Set-up currently is: Denon X1000 with Audioengine P4 speakers. Would ideally like to use for both music and TV. Room is about 12x30, very open but TV and sofa are located in the middle, and seating is within a ~10ft radius.

Would appreciate any input.
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post #2936 of 3056 Old 08-21-2014, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by turk1 View Post
Looking for recommendations on a sub with a budget of ~$200. I've looked through some of the ones mentioned here, but am not sure which ones most appropriate.

Set-up currently is: Denon X1000 with Audioengine P4 speakers. Would ideally like to use for both music and TV. Room is about 12x30, very open but TV and sofa are located in the middle, and seating is within a ~10ft radius.

Would appreciate any input.
I think the BIC F-12 would be a good choice. There is also the Polk PSW505, but I think the BIC is a better sub.

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post #2937 of 3056 Old 08-21-2014, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by turk1 View Post
Looking for recommendations on a sub with a budget of ~$200. I've looked through some of the ones mentioned here, but am not sure which ones most appropriate.

Set-up currently is: Denon X1000 with Audioengine P4 speakers. Would ideally like to use for both music and TV. Room is about 12x30, very open but TV and sofa are located in the middle, and seating is within a ~10ft radius.

Would appreciate any input.
Dayton Audio Sub-1500.
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post #2938 of 3056 Old 08-26-2014, 04:03 PM
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Looking to replace a couple of these Mirage Prestige S8 8" subs with a rear port - http://www.miragespeakers.com/subwoo...ku=PRESTIGE-S8



We are 95% TV/Movies/Sports

Room is Family/Dining with an open dining room. 18 deep and 24 wide with 10 ft ceilings. Listening area is set up to one side 18 x 16 x 10 high with the obvious opening into the dining area
I have the mirage subs set up on the left and right of the entertainment center about 7' apart.

Simple 5.2 set up. I am running a Yamaha V675 that is about to be replaced by a Yamaha A3000. Aperion 5T towers and 5C center. Triad In wall Omni plus in the rear.

The two little Mirage" just don't seem to be cutting it anymore. The Aperion 5T towers may produce almost as much bass as the Mirage Subs.
Ideally, I would like to replace with one larger sub and maybe add a second later.

WAF is a big deal here. Everything we have in the front is piano black. Preferably the same would be great might get away with satin. The black oak look will not work.
Small form factor is important as well. The two small Mirage look nice on the floor between the 2 towers. I would like to do the same down the road.

I have been searching the used market for a SVS - SB12 NSD but am I going to be happy with it as a single versus the two I have? Am I going to wish for a ported sub since I am mostly Sports and movies?

What about the HSU VTF-1 MK2? I am worried it is a tad big though? 15" cubed or smaller would be great. Used Martin Logan MK1000? Aperion Bravus 10D II?

$500 for one sub is really the most I want to spend.

Anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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post #2939 of 3056 Old 08-26-2014, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking to replace a couple of these Mirage Prestige S8 8" subs with a rear port - http://www.miragespeakers.com/subwoo...ku=PRESTIGE-S8
We are 95% TV/Movies/Sports

Room is Family/Dining with an open dining room. 18 deep and 24 wide with 10 ft ceilings. Listening area is set up to one side 18 x 16 x 10 high with the obvious opening into the dining area
I have the mirage subs set up on the left and right of the entertainment center about 7' apart.

WAF is a big deal here. Everything we have in the front is piano black. Preferably the same would be great might get away with satin. The black oak look will not work.
Small form factor is important as well. The two small Mirage look nice on the floor between the 2 towers. I would like to do the same down the road.

I have been searching the used market for a SVS - SB12 NSD but am I going to be happy with it as a single versus the two I have? Am I going to wish for a ported sub since I am mostly Sports and movies?

What about the HSU VTF-1 MK2? I am worried it is a tad big though? 15" cubed or smaller would be great. Used Martin Logan MK1000? Aperion Bravus 10D II?

$500 for one sub is really the most I want to spend.
Most of your needs are competing I'm afraid. The entire open space has to be factored in when sizing a subwoofer, not just what is designated as the viewing area, so you're looking at about 4300 ft^3. That's a pretty good sized room, so I'm not surprised your current 8" subwoofers aren't cutting it. You're looking for a sub with what is considered a premium finish -- high gloss paint -- yet your budget is only $500. You also want a very small subwoofer; a 15" cube is not at all large, by subwoofer standards anyway, but in order to achieve your goal of more pronounced bass you'll need a much larger subwoofer then that. If you opt for a single unit, anyway. If you want to go with duals you can probably meet your goals, but not for $500 unfortunately.

The SB12-NSD is a real nice subwoofer, and a pair of them might do the trick for you, but it's a discontinued model. That means in 6 months to a year when you're in the position to get another one they probably won't be available. Given that, you should consider a model still in production.

Bottom line is something probably has to give, be it size, price, finish, output, etc. A large room and a small budget (relatively speaking) will make it rather difficult to find an appropriate match.
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post #2940 of 3056 Old 08-26-2014, 05:16 PM
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This 12" Pinnacle sub is a STEAL at @$129. Deal end the 28th. List is $599.

I installed one at my parents house and was AMAZED at the amount of smooth bass it reproduced.

You could get 2 of them for that price!

http://www.woot.com/offers/pinnacle-...f=cnt_wp_23_15
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