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post #2941 of 2962 Old 08-26-2014, 04:28 PM
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As an owner of the same sub, you are going to have a difficult time getting better performance, with equal aesthetics/WAF, for a decent price WITHOUT increasing the size considerably. As you know, not only are these subs beautiful to look at, but they are relatively tiny at under 13" cubed.

Basically, you would have to spend $500+ to get a big step up in performance with the smallish form factor (SVS SB1000 minimum) but that's for ONE sub, and you will be replacing two. You have over 4,000 cu ft to fill up. I'd be concerned with the ability of a single small, sealed sub to fill that room any better than the two ported 8" subs did. I wouldn't get rid of both of them until you had the funds to add the second sub, so for example you could do a "phased roll out" where you add one big sub and keep one of the Mirages to help fill in.

Another option, depending on your room placement, is to get one big boy beefy sub that you can tuck away in a corner or stash as an end table, where it is responsible for the majority of the output and will be less of a WAF problem (lower visibilitY), and then keep the more diminutive/attractive Prestige S8 by the front of the room to smooth out room modes.

Either way you are out of the scope of the "budget sub" thread.


EDIT: to provide a little data on the last recommendation (mating a big sub for output with a smaller sub for "fill") I played around at one point with pairing the much larger Mirage Omni S12 to my Prestige S8.

The first graph is just the single Prestige S8 (measured at 4 points around the sweet spot) after Audyssey calibration. Pretty flat from 30Hz to around 90Hz but the two big issues are (1) steep roll-off below 30Hz (as you'd expect from an 8" sub) and (2) a huge null between 70-80Hz that EQ can't fix.



The second graph is both subs combined, also plotted at 4 points. You can see several huge improvements: (1) the system is now flat to 20Hz, (2) the second sub cancelled the nulls higher up, so in addition to yielding deeper low end extension now it's also much improved in the upper bass, flat all the way up to 100Hz with less drop-off above that point, and (3) the dual subs greatly reduced spatial variation so the bass will be more consistent.



The moral here is twofold: first, multiple subs make it much easier to calibrate your bass response because they work together to energize different room modes, thus eliminating big peaks/nulls and reducing spatial variation; and second, with some minimal effort at optimizing placement you can effectively blend one big bad sub with one or two more smaller subs, allowing the big sub to carry the load in terms of output/extension and utilizing the smaller subs to fill in the gaps.
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post #2942 of 2962 Old 08-26-2014, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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This 12" Pinnacle sub is a STEAL at @$129. Deal end the 28th. List is $599.

I installed one at my parents house and was AMAZED at the amount of smooth bass it reproduced.

You could get 2 of them for that price!

http://www.woot.com/offers/pinnacle-...f=cnt_wp_23_15
I give your avatar two thumbs up -- 2112 is a masterpiece! -- but the PS225 I can only give one thumb I'm afraid. I reviewed that unit a while back, and for me it seemed to be better at music than HT. It's certainly not worth the $599 MSRP, but for $129 it is quite a deal. I hope it works out well for you.

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post #2943 of 2962 Old 08-26-2014, 06:03 PM
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2112 is a masterpiece!
+1
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post #2944 of 2962 Old 08-26-2014, 06:22 PM
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Most of your needs are competing I'm afraid. The entire open space has to be factored in when sizing a subwoofer, not just what is designated as the viewing area, so you're looking at about 4300 ft^3. That's a pretty good sized room, so I'm not surprised your current 8" subwoofers aren't cutting it. You're looking for a sub with what is considered a premium finish -- high gloss paint -- yet your budget is only $500. You also want a very small subwoofer; a 15" cube is not at all large, by subwoofer standards anyway, but in order to achieve your goal of more pronounced bass you'll need a much larger subwoofer then that. If you opt for a single unit, anyway. If you want to go with duals you can probably meet your goals, but not for $500 unfortunately.

The SB12-NSD is a real nice subwoofer, and a pair of them might do the trick for you, but it's a discontinued model. That means in 6 months to a year when you're in the position to get another one they probably won't be available. Given that, you should consider a model still in production.

Bottom line is something probably has to give, be it size, price, finish, output, etc. A large room and a small budget (relatively speaking) will make it rather difficult to find an appropriate match.

Thanks Jim. I may just gamble and get the sb12 nsd ND hope to get another one on the used market later. Any suggestions that fit my needs that I could buy one now and get the other later? Maybe I can go a little larger than 15" cube. Maybe a little taller?


Thanks
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post #2945 of 2962 Old 08-26-2014, 06:45 PM
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Thanks Jim. I may just gamble and get the sb12 nsd ND hope to get another one on the used market later. Any suggestions that fit my needs that I could buy one now and get the other later? Maybe I can go a little larger than 15" cube. Maybe a little taller?
Anyway you could talk her into the BPS212? It's a dual 12" driver sub. 19 H x 16 W x 19 D

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post #2946 of 2962 Old 08-26-2014, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mc4saints View Post
Thanks Jim. I may just gamble and get the sb12 nsd ND hope to get another one on the used market later. Any suggestions that fit my needs that I could buy one now and get the other later? Maybe I can go a little larger than 15" cube. Maybe a little taller?
Given the size of your room output will be your friend, so perhaps the PB-1000 would be a good place to start. The next level up is something like the LV-12R. A pair of either should suffice, but the latter would be better in the short term when you have only one. Both are larger then a 15" cube though. If you're willing to consider less expensive options then the NX-BAS-500 or H-100II may do the trick. With your $500 budget you could get a pair of those right now.

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post #2947 of 2962 Old 08-26-2014, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
As an owner of the same sub, you are going to have a difficult time getting better performance, with equal aesthetics/WAF, for a decent price WITHOUT increasing the size considerably. As you know, not only are these subs beautiful to look at, but they are relatively tiny at under 13" cubed.

Basically, you would have to spend $500+ to get a big step up in performance with the smallish form factor (SVS SB1000 minimum) but that's for ONE sub, and you will be replacing two. You have over 4,000 cu ft to fill up. I'd be concerned with the ability of a single small, sealed sub to fill that room any better than the two ported 8" subs did. I wouldn't get rid of both of them until you had the funds to add the second sub, so for example you could do a "phased roll out" where you add one big sub and keep one of the Mirages to help fill in.

Another option, depending on your room placement, is to get one big boy beefy sub that you can tuck away in a corner or stash as an end table, where it is responsible for the majority of the output and will be less of a WAF problem (lower visibilitY), and then keep the more diminutive/attractive Prestige S8 by the front of the room to smooth out room modes.

Either way you are out of the scope of the "budget sub" thread.


EDIT: to provide a little data on the last recommendation (mating a big sub for output with a smaller sub for "fill") I played around at one point with pairing the much larger Mirage Omni S12 to my Prestige S8.

The first graph is just the single Prestige S8 (measured at 4 points around the sweet spot) after Audyssey calibration. Pretty flat from 30Hz to around 90Hz but the two big issues are (1) steep roll-off below 30Hz (as you'd expect from an 8" sub) and (2) a huge null between 70-80Hz that EQ can't fix.



The second graph is both subs combined, also plotted at 4 points. You can see several huge improvements: (1) the system is now flat to 20Hz, (2) the second sub cancelled the nulls higher up, so in addition to yielding deeper low end extension now it's also much improved in the upper bass, flat all the way up to 100Hz with less drop-off above that point, and (3) the dual subs greatly reduced spatial variation so the bass will be more consistent.



The moral here is twofold: first, multiple subs make it much easier to calibrate your bass response because they work together to energize different room modes, thus eliminating big peaks/nulls and reducing spatial variation; and second, with some minimal effort at optimizing placement you can effectively blend one big bad sub with one or two more smaller subs, allowing the big sub to carry the load in terms of output/extension and utilizing the smaller subs to fill in the gaps.
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Anyway you could talk her into the BPS212? It's a dual 12" driver sub. 19 H x 16 W x 19 D
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Given the size of your room output will be your friend, so perhaps the PB-1000 would be a good place to start. The next level up is something like the LV-12R. A pair of either should suffice, but the latter would be better in the short term when you have only one. Both are larger then a 15" cube though. If you're willing to consider less expensive options then the NX-BAS-500 or H-100II may do the trick. With your $500 budget you could get a pair of those right now.
Thanks for all the replies. I like your idea batpig. I will keep one s8 with a new larger sub. I will research the subs suggested but just to be clear does everyone think a ported sub will be better for my set up?
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post #2948 of 2962 Old 08-26-2014, 08:51 PM
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You need output in a room of your volume. A port allows for "cheap" extra output over a comparably priced sealed sub, so I would say so. It's not hard and fast -- I'm sure there are some awesome performing sealed subs in your budget range like the SVS or Reaction Audio -- but as a general room it's a good bang for the buck for extra extension and output.

What's the max budget? I would if possible try to stretch to the $600-800 class like the Rythmik or comparable offerings from SVS, HSU, Outlaw etc.

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post #2949 of 2962 Old 08-26-2014, 10:20 PM
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You need output in a room of your volume. A port allows for "cheap" extra output over a comparably priced sealed sub, so I would say so. It's not hard and fast -- I'm sure there are some awesome performing sealed subs in your budget range like the SVS or Reaction Audio -- but as a general room it's a good bang for the buck for extra extension and output.

What's the max budget? I would if possible try to stretch to the $600-800 class like the Rythmik or comparable offerings from SVS, HSU, Outlaw etc.
I will look at those. I am hoping I can find something in used market since the warranties are transferable on these brands. Just the size of most of these ported woofers are going to make my wife crazy.
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post #2950 of 2962 Old 08-27-2014, 05:02 AM
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I think the BPS 212 would be a good choice for you, it has a satin black finish, is compact, and from what I have seen sounds great. While a ported sub is ideal for the extra output, a pair of these would be no slouch.

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post #2951 of 2962 Old 08-27-2014, 06:36 AM
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I think the BPS 212 would be a good choice for you, it has a satin black finish, is compact, and from what I have seen sounds great. While a ported sub is ideal for the extra output, a pair of these would be no slouch.
Those are in the range and look to be really good based on reviews but the amp on the side instead of back and not having a grill (or do they?) are a negative.
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post #2952 of 2962 Old 08-27-2014, 06:47 AM
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Those are in the range and look to be really good based on reviews but the amp on the side instead of back and not having a grill (or do they?) are a negative.
It comes with black cloth grills that are magnetized. And bass is omni-directional so you don't need to orient it a certain way.

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It comes with black cloth grills that are magnetized. And bass is omni-directional so you don't need to orient it a certain way.
Turning sideways is a good idea but that makes it 19" wide and firing directly into the side of my entertainment center based on the amp being on the left side.
Why the heck did they not put the amp on the back?
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Turning sideways is a good idea but that makes it 19" wide and firing directly into the side of my entertainment center based on the amp being on the left side.
Why the heck did they not put the amp on the back?
If you put the amp on the other side, it's the same thing. It's a dual opposing driver sub. Two sides are already taken up by drivers. The only different option would be to put it on top, and that would result in terrible aesthetics for most people

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If you put the amp on the other side, it's the same thing. It's a dual opposing driver sub. Two sides are already taken up by drivers. The only different option would be to put it on top, and that would result in terrible aesthetics for most people
duh! I am a dummy. I had no idea it was (2) 12's in the one box. Makes perfect sense now.
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That is why I recommended it. Powerful sub for its size.
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That is why I recommended it. Powerful sub for its size.
OK. So If I can get the wife to except it's size, I assume I will be fine with eventually 2 of these based on my room size even though it is a sealed sub?
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About to put together my first stereo system and was wondering what you guys thought about the JBL es150 . http://www.amazon.com/JBL-ES150PBK-3...rds=jbl+es150p


Main use will be listening to music and some light gaming

Speakers are JBL 180. http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Studio-180...ywords=JBL+180

Receiver is. http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X100...ds=denon+x1000



any info would be great. seems like this JBL is a solid deal on amazon right now fopr 149$ just making sure this thing is not junk

Budget is around 200. is there somthing that is going to sound better for with my hardware for the money?
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post #2959 of 2962 Old 08-27-2014, 08:38 AM
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OK. So If I can get the wife to except it's size, I assume I will be fine with eventually 2 of these based on my room size even though it is a sealed sub?
Yeah I think two would work well in that space.

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About to put together my first stereo system and was wondering what you guys thought about the JBL es150 . http://www.amazon.com/JBL-ES150PBK-3...rds=jbl+es150p


Main use will be listening to music and some light gaming

Speakers are JBL 180. http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Studio-180...ywords=JBL+180

Receiver is. http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X100...ds=denon+x1000



any info would be great. seems like this JBL is a solid deal on amazon right now fopr 149$ just making sure this thing is not junk

Budget is around 200. is there somthing that is going to sound better for with my hardware for the money?
That JBL should work well for you. It's a good deal at $149.

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That JBL should work well for you. It's a good deal at $149.
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post #2961 of 2962 Old 08-27-2014, 03:00 PM
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OK. So If I can get the wife to except it's size, I assume I will be fine with eventually 2 of these based on my room size even though it is a sealed sub?
I own the SVS SB-1000, the little brother of the SB12. So I definitely like SVS subs and highly recommend them. In your situation, unless you can go bigger than that and a bit more budget, the BPS 212 is what I would choose. Think about it? Two of those means upgrading from 2 8" drivers to FOUR 12" DRIVERS.

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duh! I am a dummy. I had no idea it was (2) 12's in the one box. Makes perfect sense now.
Bass is pretty non-directional so you could face it either way and it will work just fine.

If you are on a budget, the 212 offers a lot of output in the price range.
The dual drivers have enough displacement that a 10" or 12" single driver would have a tough time keeping up in overall average output.

I think a pair would fill your room fairly well.

The LV12r is a good suggestion too if you wanted to go ported.
I would have to estimate based on everything I have seen on it that the 212 would have a slight advantage in the upper bass headroom (35-80 hz) and the LV12R would have some more headroom in the lower range (20-35 hz).

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