Upgrading Ye Olde Mirage LF-100 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 02-26-2012, 02:18 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have had a Mirage LF-100 for a few years now -- maybe going on 6 or 7. It's served me rather well in apartment/small-room environments, but I've upgraded both my amount of room-space and my other equipment since then.

So, either it's seen better days; or (perhaps more likely), it just doesn't have the oomph to handle a bigger and more complex space. Further, it's always had a bit of a sensitive coax connection -- prone to short/disconnect if not attached perfectly.

My current receiver is the Onkyo TX-NR807, which has two sub-outs. It's pushing 7.1 with two Mirage OMD-5s for Front L&R, an OMD-C1 as Center, and Rear channels filled out with some older Omnisat Micros (which I bought along with the sub), ceiling-mounted.

I'd say usage is 60% TV/Movies, 30% Music, and 10% Gaming.

So, my questions are these:

Should I get another small sub to attach to the second sub-out -- or --
Should I sell the LF-100 and buy another sub altogether -- or --
Should I sell the LF-100 and buy two new subs?

And, in answer to any of those questions -- what should I get?

Stats/Details:

Room size is 13' W x 18' L x 8' H -- with openings on three sides, and floor-to-ceiling windows on the fourth. It also has a large sofa, a wood table, etc. All floors are hard, no rugs or carpet (see this layout drawing). It's therefore a bit challenging.

I'd like to stick to subs around the same overall size as the LF-100, though I am willing to go a bit bigger -- just not greatly so.

I'd also like to stay at under $200 for each, but am willing to take recommendations up to twice that amount, in the hopes of finding them used on Craigslist (etc.)

I'd prefer something aesthetically subdued -- either black or wood grain -- no funky plastics or colored accents.

Thanks in advance!
Oroboros is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 02-26-2012, 08:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AVfile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 54
Although it might be larger than you like, try to find a used Mirage BPS-400.

- AVStefan
If you like someone's post, just use the Like button to give thanks.
AVfile is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 02-26-2012, 10:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,644
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroboros View Post

Room size is 13' W x 18' L x 8' H -- with openings on three sides, and floor-to-ceiling windows on the fourth. It also has a large sofa, a wood table, etc. All floors are hard, no rugs or carpet (see this layout drawing). It's therefore a bit challenging.

Are those dimensions for the entire space -- including the area that contains what looks to be a dining table -- or is that just where the couch and HT system are?

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #4 of 26 Old 02-26-2012, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Are those dimensions for the entire space -- including the area that contains what looks to be a dining table -- or is that just where the couch and HT system are?

Those are the dimensions for the entire space contained inside the thicker black border. Sorry, I should have included some numbers.
Oroboros is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 02-26-2012, 04:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,644
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 364
The LF-100 only has an 8" driver, so for HT it's not really going to perform all that well. Getting another one doesn't really change that fact, so I don't see it being your best option. I think it might be better to get one decent sub instead.

A few that might be worth considering are the BIC VK-12, Earthquake FF-12, Acoustic Audio HD-SUB15 and the Premier Acoustics PA-150 (using coupon code TV15 will net you a 15% discount).

The PA-150 is perhaps the best bargain of the lot, but given the size of your room any of them should satisfy your needs.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #6 of 26 Old 02-26-2012, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This is a great list, I'm going to start looking into these right now. Thanks so much, Jim.
Oroboros is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 02-26-2012, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Acoustic Audio HD-SUB15 is appealing the most to me so far... mostly due to the price, admittedly.

If I was to go for the next step up in price -- the BIC or the Earthquake -- which would be more bang for the buck? Also, is either one better enough, in your opinion, to justify the extra cost over the Acoustic Audio?
Oroboros is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 02-27-2012, 07:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,644
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroboros View Post

The Acoustic Audio HD-SUB15 is appealing the most to me so far... mostly due to the price, admittedly.

If I was to go for the next step up in price -- the BIC or the Earthquake -- which would be more bang for the buck? Also, is either one better enough, in your opinion, to justify the extra cost over the Acoustic Audio?

The HD-SUB15 is probably the most bang for the buck, or should I say boom for the buck. In other words, it's output per dollar will be the highest, but there's a tradeoff or two. Relative to it's price the bass is quite good, but it won't be the cleanest.

Like everything else, you get what you pay for (well, most of the time you do). AA is not a very large company, only sells through a single distributor and uses inexpensive parts. To an extent all the aforementioned subs do that very thing -- with the except of the PA-150 perhaps -- but AA probably more so then the others.

BIC is a pretty large company that makes a lot of products, so some of their pricing model is based upon volume; they sell a lot so they can afford to have less profit per unit because of that. Earthquake makes some very expensive subwoofers, with custom designed parts, but the FF-12 is more of a commodity item for them. It won't be their best product.

Premier Acoustics is at the high end of the low end. What I mean by that is they make pretty inexpensive speakers when compared to what they provide. They aren't in the same league as an SVS or Rythmik, but neither is their price. PA could be considered the best of both worlds.

It ultimately depends upon what you're looking to achieve (and your budget, of course). If you do mostly TV and movie watching, with little music, the HD-SUB15 will probably do just fine. It has the output, but it lacks a bit of definition. The VK-12 and FF-12 subs will increase the definition some, but provide less output when compared to the HD-SUB15. The Premier Acoustics will more than likely equal the output of the HD-SUB15, while simultaneously bettering the definition of the VK-12 and FF-12.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #9 of 26 Old 02-27-2012, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks again, Jim. This is fantastically useful info. I may end up waiting to save up a bit more to get the PA, since it does seem like the best of all worlds. If I end up not being able to wait, though, I think I'll go for the AA.
Oroboros is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 02-27-2012, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
On this note, if I can get a Anthony Gallo Acoustics MPS 150 for $400 or so, is that something I should add to this list?
Oroboros is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 02-28-2012, 06:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,644
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroboros View Post

On this note, if I can get a Anthony Gallo Acoustics MPS 150 for $400 or so, is that something I should add to this list?

I've never heard the MPS 150 myself, but I am quite familiar with some of the other Gallo speakers. My take is they make some fine products, but the prices are too high. In other words, what they charge does no equal what you get. If you're looking for 'bang for the buck' Gallo is not a name that will float to the top of the list.

Is this sub new? IIRC, the MPS 150 is pretty old - like maybe 10 years or so. Does Gallo still even make those?

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #12 of 26 Old 02-28-2012, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's used, on Craigslist. I don't think AGA makes that model anymore, like you said. This is similar (if not identical) and is about $200 more.

All that said, I'd really like to spend less than $400, for sure.
Oroboros is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 02-28-2012, 05:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,644
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroboros View Post

It's used, on Craigslist. I don't think AGA makes that model anymore, like you said. This is similar (if not identical) and is about $200 more.

All that said, I'd really like to spend less than $400, for sure.

With the coupon code you can get the PA-150 for around $360, so that should fit your budget. Something to consider I suppose.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #14 of 26 Old 02-29-2012, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Absolutely. It seems like a pretty solid option. Hopefully I'll be able to swing for it before too long. If I do, I'll definitely post a reply here. Thanks again!
Oroboros is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 04-05-2012, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, now my hand has been forced. Seems like the coil connection on the Mirage has become detached or shorted. I'm going to take it apart to verify, but it's probably FUBAR (at least relative to my speaker-repair skills).

Problem is I don't even have $200 to spend on a sub right now. Any chance there's something worth getting for $150 or less -- even if it's just "temporary"?

Perhaps the AA RWSUB-12 as a budget-friendly step down from the HD-SUB15?

Or possibly the BIC F12?
Oroboros is offline  
post #16 of 26 Old 04-06-2012, 05:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,644
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroboros View Post

Problem is I don't even have $200 to spend on a sub right now. Any chance there's something worth getting for $150 or less -- even if it's just "temporary"?

Perhaps the AA RWSUB-12 as a budget-friendly step down from the HD-SUB15?

Or possibly the BIC F12?

I'd steer clear of the RWSUB-12. It's nothing more than a generic, lifeless, mass produced "sub" (and I use that term loosely) which other companies also sell by slapping on a different name plate. I evaluated one of those nondescript clones myself, which was the Theater Solutions Sub12D. To be blunt; it was terrible. Although my assessment may come across as harsh to some I would be remiss not to try and convey my true sense of disappointment in what they're selling. It's only $150, but that's $140 too much in my opinion.

The F12 is no slouch, from what I've read anyway, and would be a far better alternative then the RWSUB-12. The Dayton SUB-1200 is worthy of consideration as well. Last, but not least, is the Premier Acoustics PA-120. With the "best offer" system they employ you can probably get that one for around $220-$225. Personally I feel that's the best of the lot but I always tend toward clean, tight bass more than "slam".

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #17 of 26 Old 04-06-2012, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Damn, Jim. Thanks for the warning! And thanks for the advice, I now have to carefully consider whether to go with the BIC or the Dayton.

The BIC looks like it can be had for as low as $147, but from a site I've never heard of and has no Google seller rating. Sketchy? Next best prices are ~$180-190.

I can guarantee my significant other would be much happier if we spent $130 vs. $190 -- so that may very well be the deciding factor. It seems I can't go wrong with either one, per reviews and your recommendation, so... I'm leaning towards the Dayton.

Thanks again, Jim, you've been immensely helpful in this whole process.
Oroboros is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 04-06-2012, 09:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,644
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroboros View Post

Damn, Jim. Thanks for the warning! And thanks for the advice, I now have to carefully consider whether to go with the BIC or the Dayton.

The BIC looks like it can be had for as low as $147, but from a site I've never heard of and has no Google seller rating. Sketchy? Next best prices are ~$180-190.

I can guarantee my significant other would be much happier if we spent $130 vs. $190 -- so that may very well be the deciding factor. It seems I can't go wrong with either one, per reviews and your recommendation, so... I'm leaning towards the Dayton.

Thanks again, Jim, you've been immensely helpful in this whole process.

You're very welcome. Glad I was able to assist.

Of those two I would more than likely go for the F12 myself. The SUB-1200 is probably a solid deal -- Dayton is pretty good that way -- but the F12 is much more of a known quantity, and has been out for a while now. I'm not sure how much $60 would affect your financial situation, but it seems like the difference might be worth considering at least.

If money is really tight check out this thread. That's another worthwhile option for you.

As far as 365salespoint.com goes... I've never heard of them either, so I can't help you there. If I were in your shoes I'd probably stick with Amazon though. It doesn't seem worth the gamble, if you ask me.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #19 of 26 Old 04-06-2012, 09:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post


You're very welcome. Glad I was able to assist.

Of those two I would more than likely go for the F12 myself. The SUB-1200 is probably a solid deal -- Dayton is pretty good that way -- but the F12 is much more of a known quantity, and has been out for a while now. I'm not sure how much $60 would affect your financial situation, but it seems like the difference might be worth considering at least.

As far as 365salespoint.com goes... I've never heard of them either, so I can't help you there. If I were in your shoes I'd probably stick with Amazon though. It doesn't seem worth the gamble, if you ask me.

I am with Jim. I would avoid 365salespoint.com

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/365_salespoint

Their website is very shady looking.
ack_bk is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 04-06-2012, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks, Jim and ack_bk. 365salespoint definitely looks to be on the shady side -- I'll steer clear.

Jim, I think I can bite the $60 bullet on this one; because I want to be happy with the sub I go with, even if I upgrade within a year's time... so... BIC it is! I'm placing the order now via Amazon.

Thanks again!
Oroboros is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 04-06-2012, 10:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroboros View Post

Thanks, Jim and ack_bk. 365salespoint definitely looks to be on the shady side -- I'll steer clear.

Jim, I think I can bite the $60 bullet on this one; because I want to be happy with the sub I go with, even if I upgrade within a year's time... so... BIC it is! I'm placing the order now via Amazon.

Thanks again!

Congrats and post back one you get it setup and running!
ack_bk is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 04-06-2012, 10:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,644
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Congrats and post back one you get it setup and running!

+1

Let us know how you fare.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #23 of 26 Old 04-06-2012, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Will do! I'll do my best to do a "review" or comparison between it and the Mirage (though I'm sure it'll be no contest).
Oroboros is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 04-06-2012, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I ended up opening the Mirage, and was able to determine that it was the ever-pesky coax input. I tightened it up, and it's working now.

I was talking to an audiohead friend, and had a flash of inspiration: the Mirage isn't powerful enough to be the main sub... but it is powerful enough to be a mid-bass unit.

So, I wired it to the center channel, and output it to the Mirage OMDC1. After tweaking the level and crossover settings. Wow. It vibrates in the high chest like this system never has before. Once I get the BIC as the gut-thumper, I think this thing will be complete.

ETA: Oh well, it wasn't the coax. As I first expected, it's the tensile to the voice coil. That being said, I was able to mess with it enough to get it working again. I'm gonna get a soldering iron in order to fix it more permanently (hopefully). I've been wanting to get into that sorta thing anyway, so why not start now?
Oroboros is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 04-11-2012, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Oroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sub arrived today... what a beast! I'll post a lengthier review soon; but, suffice it to say, so far so good.
Oroboros is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 04-12-2012, 05:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,644
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroboros View Post

Sub arrived today... what a beast! I'll post a lengthier review soon; but, suffice it to say, so far so good.

Glad it worked out for you. Generally speaking a sub needs a little time to break in, so it should get a little better as time goes on (and you get it tuned for your particular room).

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off