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post #1 of 21 Old 02-27-2012, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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This weekend I decided to get serious (again?!) about calibrating my setup using REW. When I get home later I'll post some graphs on the best starting location in my room. (There's only a few possible spots)

My first question is should I be running the sub and mains together to get levels or just running the sub? I couldn't really find an answer in the help ...

I must admit I tried to do some of this about a year ago, but it's a frustrating process. There's plenty of help on how to actually get the measurements, but not what they mean.

Progress so far? I have been able to make some initial sweeps using the sub+mains so far ...

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post #2 of 21 Old 02-27-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

This weekend I decided to get serious (again?!) about calibrating my setup using REW. When I get home later I'll post some graphs on the best starting location in my room. (There's only a few possible spots)

My first question is should I be running the sub and mains together to get levels or just running the sub? I couldn't really find an answer in the help ...

I must admit I tried to do some of this about a year ago, but it's a frustrating process. There's plenty of help on how to actually get the measurements, but not what they mean.

Progress so far? I have been able to make some initial sweeps using the sub+mains so far ...

It really depends on the person IMO. I always measure and EQ with my mains on, as that way I can see what the phase and FR is like at the crossover. With that said, some people measure and EQ before adding the mains, then fire them up afterwards and tweak from there. It's really up to you, but I prefer to have the mains on; you can also check the sub vs. main level that way too.


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post #3 of 21 Old 02-27-2012, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

It really depends on the person IMO. I always measure and EQ with my mains on, as that way I can see what the phase and FR is like at the crossover. With that said, some people measure and EQ before adding the mains, then fire them up afterwards and tweak from there. It's really up to you, but I prefer to have the mains on; you can also check the sub vs. main level that way too.


Thanks for the reply!

My mains are crossed over at 80hz right now. I'll post pics later tonight because I'm not sure exactly what I should be looking for at the crossover point as far as FR/Phase goes ...

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post #4 of 21 Old 02-27-2012, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post


Thanks for the reply!

My mains are crossed over at 80hz right now. I'll post pics later tonight because I'm not sure exactly what I should be looking for at the crossover point as far as FR/Phase goes ...

Sounds good - I look forward to it.


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post #5 of 21 Old 02-27-2012, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's the first one ...

This is the back corner placement about 4-5 feet from the listening position ...

1- green line 80 hz crossover

2 - purple line 100hz

3 - blue line 150 hz

Audyssey is off. Sub level is at zero on the AVR. Calibrated at 75db on the SPL meter. 75db was set with the sub pink cal noise. Measurements are sub + mains.

I can load the waterfall graphs as well, but the 100 hz one looked the best (marginally)
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post #6 of 21 Old 02-27-2012, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the other position at the front right corner ...

The phase looks pretty crazy on these .. Unless I accidentally flipped the phase switch it looks off ...

1 - gold line 80 hz

2 - lite green line 100hz

3. aqua blue line 150 hz

sorry for the confusion between lines 2 and 3 ... I didnt relize it until I uploaded the file.

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post #7 of 21 Old 02-27-2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

Here's the first one ...

This is the back corner placement about 4-5 feet from the listening position ...

1- green line 80 hz crossover

2 - purple line 100hz

3 - blue line 150 hz

Audyssey is off. Sub level is at zero on the AVR. Calibrated at 75db on the SPL meter. 75db was set with the sub pink cal noise. Measurements are sub + mains.

I can load the waterfall graphs as well, but the 100 hz one looked the best (marginally)

I'd go with the 80 or 100 crossover but certainly EQ between 30Hz and the crossover point. Those peaks need to be subdued, and then you can re-level match the speakers and subs (raise them back up to 75dB through the receiver). Do you have a means to apply PEQ, such as Audyssey or a BFD or something? You already have REW and the measurement tools, so another $100 or so for an EQ and you could have a nice looking response.

Before all that, though, I'd try other locations.

P.S. What are you running for speakers, sub and the receiver?


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post #8 of 21 Old 02-27-2012, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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heres the attchments for the front corner
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post #9 of 21 Old 02-27-2012, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I'd go with the 80 or 100 crossover but certainly EQ between 30Hz and the crossover point. Those peaks need to be subdued, and then you can re-level match the speakers and subs (raise them back up to 75dB through the receiver). Do you have a means to apply PEQ, such as Audyssey or a BFD or something? You already have REW and the measurement tools, so another $100 or so for an EQ and you could have a nice looking response.

Before all that, though, I'd try other locations.

P.S. What are you running for speakers, sub and the receiver?

I attached another location with graphs as well .. I can try the far back corner but it's a good 15-20 feet away from the listening position.

I set the subs and main together at 75db thru the SPL calibration. Is that correct? Not each seperately.

I have an Integra 40.2 with MultEq XT with eD Cinema 12's as the 3 front mains (rear 12's are on order). The rears are generic JBL's for now. The sub is an Epik Empire. I already have a BFD 1124, but dont have the midi connection. (i think I need that)

thanks for your help!

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post #10 of 21 Old 02-27-2012, 08:00 PM
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Which one of those sounds better? Ideally you obviously want a flat line or a slight curve upward as the frequency decreases. Attached is an example of a more ideal frequency response.

This is mine, with only 2 EQ filters applied (shallow and small ones); I messed with placement over the weekend and found a more ideal scenario. I am fortunate, but I am also running dual subs.



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post #11 of 21 Old 02-27-2012, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

I attached another location with graphs as well .. I can try the far back corner but it's a good 15-20 feet away from the listening position.

I set the subs and main together at 75db thru the SPL calibration. Is that correct? Not each seperately.

I have an Integra 40.2 with MultEq XT with eD Cinema 12's as the 3 front mains (rear 12's are on order). The rears are generic JBL's for now. The sub is an Epik Empire. I already have a BFD 1124, but dont have the midi connection. (i think I need that)

thanks for your help!

That is a very nice set up! How large is your room (LxWxH)?

You do not need the midi to utilize the BFD. Since you don't have it you just need to enter the filters into the BFD manually, which is a piece of cake. Have you read this over yet?
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfdguide/


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post #12 of 21 Old 02-28-2012, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

That is a very nice set up! How large is your room (LxWxH)?

You do not need the midi to utilize the BFD. Since you don't have it you just need to enter the filters into the BFD manually, which is a piece of cake. Have you read this over yet?
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfdguide/

My living room is 18.5 x 13 x 8 with a vaulted ceiling that opens into a 20 x 9.5 x 8 kitchen. There's also a hallway to the bedrooms connected to the living room.

I'm going to listen for a day or so and try to pinpoint which location I like better. The front corner placement drops 15 db between 60-80hz while the back corner has a 20db difference between 25-45hz ... The front placement has one advantage in that I don't have to run the subwoofer cable so far lol ...

If anything it shows that I still want to upgrade my subs with duals at some point ....

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post #13 of 21 Old 02-28-2012, 07:57 AM
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Honestly, if it were me I'd listen for a while then try to EQ the best I could. The back corner looks to be easier to work with.

If you'd like, PM me your mdat file (or email it to me) and I can run it through REW with the EQ mockup and see how flat you can get it. Does your mdat file have both measurements in it (front and rear)? If not, measure both together and send me that file.


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post #14 of 21 Old 02-28-2012, 03:09 PM
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Here is what yours looks like after EQ. You'll want to turn up the bass at least a few dB using the the receiver or the gain on the subwoofer amp (after you EQ). Also, I used the back corner location with a 100Hz crossover. I'll do the front corner as well and post that later. Dark green is the original response, and light green is the predicted EQ'd response.



Here are the EQ filters:


LL
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post #15 of 21 Old 02-28-2012, 03:41 PM
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Okay, here is the front corner EQd. I used a 24dB octave slope for this one because of the way the response is above 100Hz. I used the 100Hz crossover plot: dark purple is the original response and light purple is the predicted EQd response. Once again, you'll want to raise the subwoofer output by 5dB or more this time once you're done EQing (using the receiver or the subwoofer gain).



And here are the two filters I applied.


This is just a start, and you may want to tweak even further after trying these filters.
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-29-2012, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to load up REW tonight and fiddle with these ...

I want to be able to replicate your suggestions, but, more importantly, UNDERSTAND them ...

http://www.hometheatershack.com/room...lters.html#top

The link above doesn't explain the EQ section very well (IMO), so I'm sure I'll have some additional questions ....

I ordered Floyd Toole's Sound Reproduction ... I'm hoping it will help shore up my theory foundation

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post #17 of 21 Old 02-29-2012, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

I'm going to load up REW tonight and fiddle with these ...

I want to be able to replicate your suggestions, but, more importantly, UNDERSTAND them ...

http://www.hometheatershack.com/room...lters.html#top

The link above doesn't explain the EQ section very well (IMO), so I'm sure I'll have some additional questions ....

I ordered Floyd Toole's Sound Reproduction ... I'm hoping it will help shore up my theory foundation

That is a fantastic book, though admittedly I have not yet finished it.

It's fairly easy to add filters into the 1124p, and you can PM or email me if you need assistance doing so. However, here are the steps:

Use the dial to make all adjustments below.

1) Turn the dial to the number 4 or 5 and hit the "filter mode" button to ensure it's PA (PEQ).
2) Hit "filter select" and start with number 1 (the first filter).
3) Hit "frequency" and set it accordingly, followed by "fine" to fine tune adjust said frequency (for example, if it's 40+2 in the filter list, you'd select 40Hz for the frequency, then hit the "fine" button and set it to +2).
4) Hit "gain" and set how many dB's you want to cut or boost.
5) Hit "bandwidth" and set it accordingly, then move onto step 2 again and run through step 5. You'll repeat this for each filter, but be sure to change the "filter select" number to the next in line (2, 3, 4, 5, etc) when adding a new filter.
6) Hit the "store" button twice to save your settings once all filters have been added.
7) Re-measure and see how close the actual response is to the predicted (it should basically be spot on). You can then fine tune from there, perhaps adjusting the gain a little bit using the filters you already added.


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post #18 of 21 Old 03-01-2012, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

That is a fantastic book, though admittedly I have not yet finished it.

It's fairly easy to add filters into the 1124p, and you can PM or email me if you need assistance doing so. However, here are the steps:

Use the dial to make all adjustments below.

1) Turn the dial to the number 4 or 5 and hit the "filter mode" button to ensure it's PA (PEQ).
2) Hit "filter select" and start with number 1 (the first filter).
3) Hit "frequency" and set it accordingly, followed by "fine" to fine tune adjust said frequency (for example, if it's 40+2 in the filter list, you'd select 40Hz for the frequency, then hit the "fine" button and set it to +2).
4) Hit "gain" and set how many dB's you want to cut or boost.
5) Hit "bandwidth" and set it accordingly, then move onto step 2 again and run through step 5. You'll repeat this for each filter, but be sure to change the "filter select" number to the next in line (2, 3, 4, 5, etc) when adding a new filter.
6) Hit the "store" button twice to save your settings once all filters have been added.
7) Re-measure and see how close the actual response is to the predicted (it should basically be spot on). You can then fine tune from there, perhaps adjusting the gain a little bit using the filters you already added.

Did some basic setup last night, but my measured results were a mess. I'm gonna do a factory reset on the BFD (bought it used) and try again tonight. The hum is terrible (horrible!), so I'm gonna have to be deal with that ... I should have just bought an Anti-Mode ...

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post #19 of 21 Old 03-01-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

Did some basic setup last night, but my measured results were a mess. I'm gonna do a factory reset on the BFD (bought it used) and try again tonight. The hum is terrible (horrible!), so I'm gonna have to be deal with that ... I should have just bought an Anti-Mode ...

Hum? Really? Mine doesn't hum... I'm sorry to hear about the issues you're having.


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post #20 of 21 Old 03-01-2012, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Hum? Really? Mine doesn't hum... I'm sorry to hear about the issues you're having.

lol .. half the fun is figuring them out

Besides I wouldn't have learned anything if it was easy!

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post #21 of 21 Old 03-03-2012, 01:58 PM
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Have you made any headway?


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