Which one and why: Velodyne Optimum 10, Martin Logan Dynamo 700 or SB12-NSD - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 03-05-2012, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jsulmeyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have an opportunity to buy a Velodyne Optimum 10 (Cherry) new, direct from Velodyne for $785 (retail is $1,199 and sale price is usually $909). While it seems like a great savings, $785 is a hell of a lot of money for me. If I'm going to spend that kind of money, how is that sub, compared to the SVS SB12-NSD ($649-$679, depending on finish and very highly rated, from what I've read) or the Martin Logan Dynamo 700 ($695 - heard it at BB today and it's sounded pretty decent). Is the Velo a no brainer at that price? Is the Velo overpriced? Could I do better and perhaps save money at the same time?

I'd really appreciate some feedback, as I need to make a decision pretty quickly.

Many thanks,

John
jsulmeyer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 03-05-2012, 08:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,574
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 348
Of the units mentioned I would go with the SVS personally. The Velo, even at the sale price, is still probably a bit high. The Dynamo 700 is a nice sub, but it's not really going to provide the same out that the SB12 is able to. The Dynamo 1000 might be able to but the 700 only has a 10" driver, so it really can't go where the SB12 can.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 03-05-2012, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jsulmeyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Jim - thanks for the input. I'm curious, other than that price still being too high, what are your impressions, good/bad, regarding the Optimum 10? I'm currently trying it out and my impressions are mixed. I'm comparing it to a 12-inch JBL ES 250, which I picked up on an Amazon lightening deal for $179. Very different sound - much bigger, boomier - definitely fills the room in a way that the sealed Optimum 10 does not. Not sure I like the boominess but I do like that it fills the room nicely. Unfortunately, the thing is HUGE and from an aesthetic standpoint, it's a bit too big and ugly for my apartment's living room. Still, it's a lot of sound for the price, so it may be worth keeping.

In comparison, the Optimum is deep (at times), smooth and tight, but a lot of the time it seems to get lost in the room, and then - when watching movies for example - it suddenly and impressively comes to life - especially the low end. Then, like before, it seems to disappear. I don't know if this is the nature of a sealed sub - especially when comparing it to the ported JBL. The only other sealed subs I tried were both Velodynes - MiniVee 8 and MiniVee 10, and in both cases the same thing happened, so I'm not sure if it's the nature of a sealed sub or the nature of a sealed Velodyne sub. I've tried the auto EQ and it's doesn't help, and my placement options are few.

Any addition thoughts? Do you think the SB12 would have very different characteristics? If so, how? I like the presets and remote on the Optimum and I'd hate to give them up unless the SB12 is that much better/different.

Many thanks,

John
jsulmeyer is offline  
post #4 of 11 Old 03-05-2012, 10:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
pokekevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 5,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 101
Id go for the SVS. I've heard a ML 700 before and wasn't to impress with it

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
pokekevin is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 03-05-2012, 11:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
drewTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 1,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsulmeyer View Post

Jim - thanks for the input. I'm curious, other than that price still being too high, what are your impressions, good/bad, regarding the Optimum 10? I'm currently trying it out and my impressions are mixed. I'm comparing it to a 12-inch JBL ES 250, which I picked up on an Amazon lightening deal for $179. Very different sound - much bigger, boomier - definitely fills the room in a way that the sealed Optimum 10 does not. Not sure I like the boominess but I do like that it fills the room nicely. Unfortunately, the thing is HUGE and from an aesthetic standpoint, it's a bit too big and ugly for my apartment's living room. Still, it's a lot of sound for the price, so it may be worth keeping.

In comparison, the Optimum is deep (at times), smooth and tight, but a lot of the time it seems to get lost in the room, and then - when watching movies for example - it suddenly and impressively comes to life - especially the low end. Then, like before, it seems to disappear. I don't know if this is the nature of a sealed sub - especially when comparing it to the ported JBL. The only other sealed subs I tried were both Velodynes - MiniVee 8 and MiniVee 10, and in both cases the same thing happened, so I'm not sure if it's the nature of a sealed sub or the nature of a sealed Velodyne sub. I've tried the auto EQ and it's doesn't help, and my placement options are few.

Any addition thoughts? Do you think the SB12 would have very different characteristics? If so, how? I like the presets and remote on the Optimum and I'd hate to give them up unless the SB12 is that much better/different.

Many thanks,

John

The velo will be the most accurate sounding sub. I have an older spl1200 mk 2 and it sounds better to me then my sb12nsd.

Why not go with the optimum 12? It will give you more oomph then the 10. With a sealed sub I wouldn't go any smaller then a 12 incher.
drewTT is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 03-06-2012, 09:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,574
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsulmeyer View Post

Jim - thanks for the input. I'm curious, other than that price still being too high, what are your impressions, good/bad, regarding the Optimum 10? I'm currently trying it out and my impressions are mixed. I'm comparing it to a 12-inch JBL ES 250, which I picked up on an Amazon lightening deal for $179. Very different sound - much bigger, boomier - definitely fills the room in a way that the sealed Optimum 10 does not. Not sure I like the boominess but I do like that it fills the room nicely. Unfortunately, the thing is HUGE and from an aesthetic standpoint, it's a bit too big and ugly for my apartment's living room. Still, it's a lot of sound for the price, so it may be worth keeping.

In comparison, the Optimum is deep (at times), smooth and tight, but a lot of the time it seems to get lost in the room, and then - when watching movies for example - it suddenly and impressively comes to life - especially the low end. Then, like before, it seems to disappear. I don't know if this is the nature of a sealed sub - especially when comparing it to the ported JBL. The only other sealed subs I tried were both Velodynes - MiniVee 8 and MiniVee 10, and in both cases the same thing happened, so I'm not sure if it's the nature of a sealed sub or the nature of a sealed Velodyne sub. I've tried the auto EQ and it's doesn't help, and my placement options are few.

Any addition thoughts? Do you think the SB12 would have very different characteristics? If so, how? I like the presets and remote on the Optimum and I'd hate to give them up unless the SB12 is that much better/different.

What you describe tends to be typical of a sealed sub in general, but a good sub in particular, so it's not a bad thing.

Quite a number of people seem to feel that if the crash/boom/bang effects are not evident all the time they aren't getting the full value, which is actually backwards; a soundtrack is not designed to be like that. A realistic presentation will have periods of low bass, along with times of prominent bass. When you encounter the situation you have it's often because the sub is doing it's job properly, not the opposite. The entire sound system is supposed to augment the experience, not dominate it.

Unlike most here I don't summarily dismiss the Velodynes. I do have personal ownership experience, and believe they make a quality product (for the most part), but the pricing model is perhaps a bit out of line. The Optimum 10 is a nice sub, with some higher-end features, and getting it for less than $800 is quite a savings, but that doesn't automatically mean it's a good value. It also doesn't mean it isn't either...

The SB12 is almost universally considered a very good sub for a very good price, relative to it's capabilities of course. It's been praised in professional reviews and by the user community alike, so there's little downside to owning one. The Optimum 10 has a stated lower extension of 23Hz at -3dB, meaning with expected room gain 20Hz is not out of the question. Very good for a sub with a 10" driver, no doubt, but at what output level will it be playing that 20Hz? It has to be a certain level -- or above -- in order for it to be considered usable, otherwise it's of no value. What it can effectively achieve I can't say, but physics will play a role; a 10" driver, no matter how clever the design or capable the amp, will have finite abilities. Same for every sized driver, of course, but with the SVS using a 12" you can reasonably assume it's ability will be greater.

There are myriad other things to consider, so this is a rather simplistic view of it, but it should at least give you some understanding of what I'm alluding to. 1200 watts RMS, EQ, remote, DSP, they're all very compelling features, so I understand what's drawing you to the Velodyne. The only potential issue I see would be missing the very last bit of lower extension, vis-a-vis the SVS, so if you're comfortable with that then perhaps the Optimum 10 is the better choice for you. The last part of that sentence is the most critical; ultimately what you select has to be right for you, which may differ from what might work for someone else. Even if you concede that you have to "give up" something in order to "gain" something else, so long as you're comfortable with those tradeoffs then it's the right choice.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 03-07-2012, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jsulmeyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks, Jim. That information is really helpful. I spoke to SVS yesterday and I'm leaning towards trying the SB12, although, as a sealed sub, my concern is it will have very similar sonic characteristics as the Optimum 10. I'm also on the fence about the aesthetics - the matt finish does nothing for me and the glossy looks really modern - especially with the metal grill. Would much prefer the older SB 12 plus with the wood finish and cloth grill. Uggh.

Thanks again for your help. I'll keep you posted if/when I get the SB12.

John
jsulmeyer is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 03-07-2012, 08:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
warpdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,096
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 31
I like both the Velo and SVS and actually own both brands so I'm fairly neutral. I would recommend the Optimum 12 over the SB12 but the SB12 is great bang for buck, excellent sound quality, world class company.

The Velos are just a lot more expensive (retail brand, fancy features like their EQ), and it's hard to recommend them over SVS when the price disparity is hundreds more. Sound quality of both are generally in the same league and debatable but I think you would be pretty thrilled how good the SVS sounds (compared to many other boomy box subs)

The Opt10 is still more expensive than the SB12 and mainly suited for smaller rooms and won't provide the depth of bass that larger 12" drivers will provide.

Certified Ultra Professional AVS Special Member Class A
warpdrive is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 03-07-2012, 08:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 103
What is your room size (width, length, height) and is the room sealed or open to other rooms?

What are your listening preferences? Music, movies, etc?

I tend to agree on the SVS, but it would help to know more.
ack_bk is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 03-07-2012, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jsulmeyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi - the room is about 15 by 20 with 8 foot ceilings, with openings to kitchen and hall. I'm about 50/50 movies/music.
jsulmeyer is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 03-07-2012, 08:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsulmeyer View Post

Hi - the room is about 15 by 20 with 8 foot ceilings, with openings to kitchen and hall. I'm about 50/50 movies/music.

Sounds like a good size space. I would lean towards the SVS or you may want to look into the HSU VTF3-MK4. Those would be my two choices. The Velodyne sounds interesting, but I cannot seem to find many reviews at all and I am not sure it would be best for the room size we are talking about.
ack_bk is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Svs Sb12 Nsd Charcoal Black Vinyl 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off