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post #1 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay,

For someone on a budget, who must fill a very large room with bass, I submit for your consideration, the following:

Two Podium 18" DJ/Band Stage Subs - $450
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional...04409162079325

Matching Podium VX2000 - 500-watts x 2 amplifier = $250
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Karaoke-DJ-2...item5892921215

Total cost for this bone jarring sub bass setup? $700 This will very likely get louder and more impacting than the vast majority of subwoofers you can buy, even in the thousands.
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post #2 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 03:50 PM
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looks like your selling something here man --- both sellers are the same at the auction links ---

if so -- that is not allowed... if not --- meh --

For PA use - yeah it'd probably be fine, though the specs are made up ---- 20hz FR on that sub setup = no way.

from the video - - "[subwoofer surround has] accordion edge so it won't rot away" -- huh?

He is selling them for $400 min bid price for two new 18" subs and cabs, and includes free freight truck shipping (which costs anywhere from $150 to $250 depending on distance. That makes the price of these subs to him only a $150 or a couple hundred at most or he wouldn't be able to sell them and make a profit after ebay fees of about 15%. What kind of subwoofer quality do you expect for two 18"s that cost $150-$200?

I can't imagine these things being very impressive at all.

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post #3 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 04:04 PM
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^

word.

 

Please tell me what happened in this night.
It's like the cat inside the box.
 
Please tell me what happened in this night.
You don't know if the cat in the box is dead or alive.
 
Please tell me what happened in this night.
The cat in the box was dead.
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post #4 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 04:08 PM
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Might be decent for a music only setup but no way would I run that for HT. Those probably roll off around 40hz or so....
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post #5 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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No, no. I'm not selling those. And wrong again. Those subs have plenty of usable content under 40Hz. In fact, if you utilize auto-calibration, you can get all the low output you want plus it's very high efficiency would give you more sheer output even with the EQ flattening it out.
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post #6 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 04:40 PM
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1) podium amp are a no name and on top of that have crappy statse, get a behringer inuke

2) what do you mean by auto EQ?? Auto EQ does nothing but boost the ENTIRE sub range, it doesnt apply a low shelf to your sub, and it definitely shouldnt when the sub is ported, because that means youll blow your sub when it bottoms out and tears the spider 5 minutes into a scene because its playing 10db hot below tuning freq.

A ported sub cant magically gain a bunch of output below tuning.

Want to measure your subwoofers? check out my dummies guide for a step by step process to Room EQ wizard
http://polaraudio.blogspot.com/2012/01/calibration.html
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post #7 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 04:43 PM
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post #8 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaslast View Post

1) podium amp are a no name and on top of that have crappy statse, get a behringer inuke

2) what do you mean by auto EQ?? Auto EQ does nothing but boost the ENTIRE sub range, it doesnt apply a low shelf to your sub, and it definitely shouldnt when the sub is ported, because that means youll blow your sub when it bottoms out and tears the spider 5 minutes into a scene because its playing 10db hot below tuning freq.

A ported sub cant magically gain a bunch of output below tuning.

I'm talking about letting your home theater receiver to the tuning. My intention behind this recommendation is home theater. The bottom line is that even this no-name DJ gear will push out a LOT of SPL and it's very low cost. More efficiency and strong amplification with subs that are meant to fill auditoriums and large venues with bass. So, putting this in a home theater setup should yield as much or more bass than you would ever need. Why spend thousands of dollars on subs with half the output capability and low efficiency? These pro audio subs will get the job done and cheaply.

If you don't like the idea of buying this gear, you can buy gear from Cerwin Vega which has really good bang for buck (but I think it's much more ugly than these clean looking black ones).
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post #9 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

lFor PA use - yeah it'd probably be fine, though the specs are made up ---- 20hz FR on that sub setup = no way.

Have you ever experienced a pro audio 18" sub? It's got more than enough 20Hz production. It's not difficult for even a high efficiency 18" driver to produce 20Hz.
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post #10 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 04:56 PM
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Tuning is defined by box vol and port vol, your receiver has nothing to do with it.

Want to measure your subwoofers? check out my dummies guide for a step by step process to Room EQ wizard
http://polaraudio.blogspot.com/2012/01/calibration.html
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post #11 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

Have you ever experienced a pro audio 18" sub? It's got more than enough 20Hz production. It's not difficult for even a high efficiency 18" driver to produce 20Hz.

no... they don't.

Timothy

I have a bit of experience -- and even some with 18" PA gear - having owned the Yamaha CW218V in the last year.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1175641

I've hosted 2 subwoofer meets in the last year (linked in my signature), and attended a third (huskeromaha's in Omaha). I've owned (in the last year) a pair of Infinity HPS-1000 subs, a pair of THX II Ultra rated Jamo D7subs, a pair of PB13 Ultra subs, a pa sub - the Yamaha CW218V with two 18" drivers, and now own a pair of JTR Captivator subs. I've heard just about all of the best of the best commercial and internet direct offerings since 2011 - some more than thrice.

Strictly between 2011 and Feb 2012 I’ve heard –

Dual DIY Dual Cinema F-20 (lilmike designed)
BIC America Formula F12
BIC V1220 pair
Klipsch RW-12D pair
DIY Rythmik 15"
Elemental Designs A7s-450
Motor City Custom Audio Dual MFW-15 Turbos pair
DIY MFW-15 dual opposed sealed in quad boxes (8 drivers)
DIY Custom Ottoman with four 15" drivers.
Chase Home Theater SS 18.2
Chase Home Theater SS 18.1 pair
Chase Home Theater 18.1VS pair
JTR Speakers Captivator Pro pair
JTR Speakers Captivator pair
JTR Speakers Captivator Sealed pair
JTR Speakers Orbit Shifter pair
JTR Speakers Growler
Seaton Submersive HP quintuple'd!?! :P (yes I heard five in the same room)
Danley Sound Labs DTS-10
SVS PB12+
SVS PB13 Ultra pair
HSU VTF-15H pair
Epike Empire (heard four in the same room)
Yamaha CW218V
Jamo D7sub pair
Jenson MS500
Infinity HPS-1000 pair
and even an Onkyo HTIB sub.

Previous to 2011, I’ve heard many different vendors and models at friends houses and home theatres, clubs, concerts, churches, etc. I’ve heard expensive velodynes to cheap JBL subs. I’ve heard multiple DIY type projects. I’ve heard (and loved) gads of different car audio equipment, up to some of the best types of subs like JL w7's and competition Orion drivers --because I and many of my friends were into car audio. Inexperienced, I am not. Though my very intentional exploration of all things subwoofer related started more heavily in 2011.


The Yamaha PA sub I owned (which would decimate that piece of junk you posted) wouldn't and didn't compete well with most of the actual home theater subs I've heard for home theater use. I too initially had high hopes they would -- they don't. Dollar for dollar the PA subs are fun and they were an eye opener for me the first time I listened to them (you can easily see my enthusiasm in the PA thread I linked above), but the more quality subs I've heard over the last year or so, the more my initial enthusiasm for the PA Sub idea has been curbed. Massive SPL above 35-40hz might be great for most any pre-21st century music, but it can't compete with a good subwoofer that has strong authority down to 15-20hz for modern music (electronica/dubstep) and movies (modern movies have increasingly more ultra low LFE). EQ won't do it, that driver isn't meant to output those low frequencies. A traditional PA sub will do nothing but make bad noises in trying. Give it a shot and see for yourself. I did.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
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My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

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post #12 of 182 Old 03-06-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


Timothy91

I have a bit of experience -- and even some with PA gear.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1175641

I've hosted 2 subwoofer meets in the last year (linked in my signature), and attended a third (huskeromaha's in Omaha). I've owned (in the last year) a pair of Infinity HPS-1000 subs, a pair of THX II Ultra rated Jamo D7subs, a pair of PB13 Ultra subs, a pa sub - the Yamaha CW218V with two 18" drivers, and now own a pair of JTR Captivator subs. I've heard about all of the best of the best commercial and internet direct offerings since 2011 - some more than thrice.

Strictly between 2011 and 2012 I've heard -

Dual DIY Dual Cinema F-20 (lilmike designed)
BIC America Formula F12
BIC V1220 pair
Klipsch RW-12D pair
DIY Rythmik 15"
Elemental Designs A7s-450
Motor City Custom Audio Dual MFW-15 Turbos pair
DIY MFW-15 dual opposed sealed in quad boxes (8 drivers)
Chase Home Theater SS 18.2
Chase Home Theater SS 18.1 pair
Chase Home Theater 18.1VS pair
JTR Speakers Captivator Pro pair
JTR Speakers Captivator pair
JTR Speakers Captivator Sealed pair
JTR Speakers Orbit Shifter pair
JTR Speakers Growler
Seaton Submersive HP quintuple (yes I heard five in the same room)
Danley Sound Labs DTS-10
SVS PB12+
SVS PB13 Ultra pair
HSU VTF-15H pair
Epike Empire (heard four in the same room)
Yamaha CW218V
Jamo D7sub pair
Jenson MS500
Infinity HPS-1000 pair
and even an Onkyo HTIB sub.

Previous to 2011, I've heard many different vendors and models at friends houses and home theatres, clubs, concerts, churches, etc. I've heard expensive velodynes to cheap JBL subs. I've heard multiple DIY type projects. I've heard (and loved) gads of different car audio equipment, up to some of the best types of subs like JL w7's and competition Orion drivers --because I and many of my friends were into car audio. Inexperienced, I am not.

The Yamaha PA sub I owned (which would decimate that piece of junk you posted) wouldn't and didn't compete well with most of the actual home theater subs I've heard for home theater use. I too initially had high hopes they would -- they don't.
In fact the more subs I've heard over the last year or so, the more my initial enthusiasm for the PA Sub idea has been curbed. Massive SPL above 35-40hz might be great for most types of music, but it can't compete with a good subwoofer that has strong authority down to 20hz! EQ won't do it, that driver isn't meant to output those low frequencies and a typical PA sub will do nothing but make bad noises in trying. Give it a shot and see for yourself. I did.

You mustve gotten deaf or lost some hearing from all those subs!

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #13 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

No, no. I'm not selling those. And wrong again. Those subs have plenty of usable content under 40Hz. In fact, if you utilize auto-calibration, you can get all the low output you want plus it's very high efficiency would give you more sheer output even with the EQ flattening it out.


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post #14 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by its phillip View Post


OMG. Ok, this 18" sub will produce more 20Hz bass than any high x-max 12's for the same wattage. Do I have to go into the science of bass production on a board dedicated to bass production? In a house setting, 2 18" pro DJ subs will produce PLENTY of 20Hz bass.

Let me go back to 1st grade on audio.

Without looking at the specs, the 18" DJ sub I linked on ebay likely produces bass @ 20Hz in a 3000cuft room to 105 to 110db at LEAST, which is not even important for movie soundtracks that only need 25Hz capability.

Next, EQ. Say your sub does 25Hz @ 90db/1watt but 80Hz @ 103db/1-watt. Simply decrease 80Hz 13db with an EQ to make it flat. What is so hard to understand about that on a board dedicated to sub bass?
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post #15 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

OMG. Ok, this 18" sub will produce more 20Hz bass than any high x-max 12's for the same wattage. Do I have to go into the science of bass production on a board dedicated to bass production? In a house setting, 2 18" pro DJ subs will produce PLENTY of 20Hz bass.

Let me go back to 1st grade on audio.

Without looking at the specs, the 18" DJ sub I linked on ebay likely produces bass @ 20Hz in a 3000cuft room to 105 to 110db at LEAST, which is not even important for movie soundtracks that only need 25Hz capability.

Next, EQ. Say your sub does 25Hz @ 90db/1watt but 80Hz @ 103db/1-watt. Simply decrease 80Hz 13db with an EQ to make it flat. What is so hard to understand about that on a board dedicated to sub bass?

Can you provide a link to this 25Hz limit.
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post #16 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

OMG. Ok, this 18" sub will produce more 20Hz bass than any high x-max 12's for the same wattage.

How do you know? You are making up specs and hazarding guesses. Slow down and read.

IF the two trustworthy 18" Eminence drivers in the Yamaha CW218V 18" sub powered by American Audio V3000 amp bridged (http://audio.manualsonline.com/manua...?idRes=1474287) couldn't compete with a single PB12+ in the deep notes category during the 2011 sub meet --- then why do you think your linked inferior PA subs in singles could do better when auditioned against a single high excursion 12" driver like the PB12+?

Voting List from 2011 Meet with Yamaha Vs SVS PB12+

In the deep notes category the Yamaha scored 14 and the SVS scored 20 --- total vote scores combined from 5 voters using a 1-5 voting scale.

NOW --- when you crank up the volume and overurn the PB12+ the Yamaha started fairing better for the movies section because we didn't use a standardized volume at that meet for the movies section, like we did for the music section. But, the Yamaha didn't get higher scores because of it's amazing extension and ability to produce huge levels of ultra low frequencies - it got higher scores because it was one of the loudest subs of the day --- which is aslo fun - but fun for a different reason! If you flatten out the EQ on the Yamaha, or any PA, then you sacrifice all that headroom, and still don't get the comfortable extension of the true home theater subs ----- so you loose out on both ends. (it's like driving a square peg into a round hole -- sure you can make it fit -- kinda...

Not to mention, too much EQ and it starts sounding like rubbish. I tried EQing some of these speakers heavily to make them have a flat FR using the Inuke DSP 3000 and the whole SQ aspect suffered for it ---across the spectrum.

Quote:


Let me go back to 1st grade on audio.

Without looking at the specs, the 18" DJ sub I linked on ebay likely produces bass @ 20Hz in a 3000cuft room to 105 to 110db at LEAST, which is not even important for movie soundtracks that only need 25Hz capability.

Next, EQ. Say your sub does 25Hz @ 90db/1watt but 80Hz @ 103db/1-watt. Simply decrease 80Hz 13db with an EQ to make it flat. What is so hard to understand about that on a board dedicated to sub bass?

Drop the attitude and learn. Better yet - buy those subs and try to do what you propose with them. Then audition one of the highly recommended subs around here that is made to do what you are trying to accomplish and you'll realize it just doesn't work as well.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

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post #17 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 08:35 AM
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I would certainly trust your reply below. You are a king when it comes to listening to subs, and knowing what that sound means.



Quote:
Originally Posted by archaea View Post

how do you know? You are making up specs and hazarding guesses. Slow down and read, instead of guessing.

If two of the yamaha cw218v 18" subs on a american dj v3000 amp couldn't compete with a single pb12+ in the deep notes category during the 2011 sub meet --- then why do you think your linked inferior subs in singles would preform better than the yamaha sub's emminance drivers did when auditioned in pairs against a single high excursion 12 like the pb12+?

Voting list from 2011 meet with yamaha vs svs pb12+

in the deep notes category the yamaha scored 14 and the svs scored 20 --- total vote scores combined from 5 voters using a 1-5 voting scale.

Now --- when you crank up the volume and overurn the pb12+ the yamaha started fairing better for the movies section because we didn't use a standardized volume at that meet, but the yamaha didn't get higher scores because of it's amazing extension - it got higher scores because it was one of the loudest subs of the day at that meet. If you flatten out the eq on the yamaha, or any pa, then you sacrifice all that headroom, and you don't really give it the extension of the true home theater subs --- so you loose out on both ends. Not to mention - too much eq and it starts sounding like rubbish. I tried eqing some of these speakers that heavily to make them flat using the inuke dsp 3000 and the whole sq aspect suffered for it across the spectrum.



Drop the attitude and learn. Better yet - buy those subs and try to do what you propose with them. Then audition one of the highly recommended subs around here that is made to do what you were trying to accomplish and you'll realize it just doesn't work as well.

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post #18 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 08:39 AM
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Archaea is right guys. Without seeing ground plane measurements of Podium stuff, I'm going to follow the trend of pro audio subwoofer drivers and assume they are designed for high SPL mid bass, not ULF extension. I wouldn't use those drivers for HT, Timothy91.

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post #19 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


but it can't compete with a good subwoofer that has strong authority down to 20hz

Perhaps you would like to clue me in on what SPL# you consider "authority" to be at 20Hz? I would like us to use REAL numbers instead of arbitrary and nebulous descriptions of sound.

I myself consider 25Hz to be all you need for home theater and that the original studios often don't use equipment capable of a usable 20Hz(and lower) output. The commercial theaters also don't have the capability of strong 20Hz output. So, everyone in here needs to get "real" about what level of output is necessary from a home theater sub. The only way to know what you "need" to produce the soundtracks is to look at the "production methods" used by the producers of that soundtrack.

Those producers of movie soundtracks know that the VAST majority of theater systems can't go below 25Hz (hell even 30Hz). So, I don't know why anyone would worry so much about 20Hz (and lower) production. It might be 'cool' to 'feel' added bass, but you can buy bass shakers for that or simply build a hollow/elevated floor people can feel the bass through.

I have heard pro DJ subs at shops selling the gear pump out bass so strong and deep, it defeats ANY home subs I've ever heard in my life (perhaps that pro gear was of higher quality than the gear I listed above). Including many car subs. (And car subs have an advantage of being in an enclosed car with it's listeners within mere feet).

I have attempted to put subs which match many on your list above in a large auditorium and it can't produce ANYTHING of substance, yet DJ gear like I listed, fills that same auditorium/room with very usable bass (certainly not at 20Hz/25Hz though but in a normal/large living room/den, those DJ subs can produce plenty of usable 25Hz bass and even some 20Hz bass, to balance the louder frequencies it produces at 40Hz+, simply use an EQ to turn those down).
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post #20 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

How do you know? You are making up specs and hazarding guesses. Slow down and read.

IF the two trustworthy 18" Eminence drivers in the Yamaha CW218V 18" sub powered by American Audio V3000 amp bridged (http://audio.manualsonline.com/manua...?idRes=1474287) couldn't compete with a single PB12+ in the deep notes category during the 2011 sub meet --- then why do you think your linked inferior PA subs in singles could do better when auditioned against a single high excursion 12" driver like the PB12+?

Voting List from 2011 Meet with Yamaha Vs SVS PB12+

In the deep notes category the Yamaha scored 14 and the SVS scored 20 --- total vote scores combined from 5 voters using a 1-5 voting scale.

NOW --- when you crank up the volume and overurn the PB12+ the Yamaha started fairing better for the movies section because we didn't use a standardized volume at that meet for the movies section, like we did for the music section. But, the Yamaha didn't get higher scores because of it's amazing extension and ability to produce huge levels of ultra low frequencies - it got higher scores because it was one of the loudest subs of the day --- which is aslo fun - but fun for a different reason! If you flatten out the EQ on the Yamaha, or any PA, then you sacrifice all that headroom, and you don't really give it the extension of the true home theater subs --- so you loose out on both ends. Not to mention, too much EQ and it starts sounding like rubbish. I tried EQing some of these speakers heavily to make them have a flat FR using the Inuke DSP 3000 and the whole SQ aspect suffered for it ---across the spectrum.



Drop the attitude and learn. Better yet - buy those subs and try to do what you propose with them. Then audition one of the highly recommended subs around here that is made to do what you were trying to accomplish and you'll realize it just doesn't work as well.

Wait, wait. You mean you ran a competition on bass and used a subjective "score" and didn't actually use an SPL meter/analyzer for reference? How can I know this test was legit without real science involved?

When it comes to the 'subjective' part of things, the ONLY part of value is the audibility of 'motor noise' / 'cabinet resonance' / 'cabinet noise' which are anomalies outside of the normal SPL measurements that might not be accounted for by pure numbers from test equipment.
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post #21 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

Perhaps you would like to clue me in on what SPL# you consider "authority" to be at 20Hz? I would like us to use REAL numbers instead of arbitrary and nebulous descriptions of sound.

I myself consider 25Hz to be all you need for home theater and that the original studios often don't use equipment capable of a usable 20Hz(and lower) output. The commercial theaters also don't have the capability of strong 20Hz output. So, everyone in here needs to get "real" about what level of output is necessary from a home theater sub. The only way to know what you "need" to produce the soundtracks is to look at the "production methods" used by the producers of that soundtrack.

Those producers of movie soundtracks know that the VAST majority of theater systems can't go below 25Hz (hell even 30Hz). So, I don't know why anyone would worry so much about 20Hz (and lower) production. It might be 'cool' to 'feel' added bass, but you can buy bass shakers for that or simply build a hollow/elevated floor people can feel the bass through.

I have heard pro DJ subs at shops selling the gear pump out bass so strong and deep, it defeats ANY home subs I've ever heard in my life (perhaps that pro gear was of higher quality than the gear I listed above). Including many car subs. (And car subs have an advantage of being in an enclosed car with it's listeners within mere feet).

I have attempted to put subs which match many on your list above in a large auditorium and it can't produce ANYTHING of substance, yet DJ gear like I listed, fills that same auditorium/room with very usable bass (certainly not at 20Hz/25Hz though but in a normal/large living room/den, those DJ subs can produce plenty of usable 25Hz bass and even some 20Hz bass, to balance the louder frequencies it produces at 40Hz+, simply use an EQ to turn those down).

Oh brother...


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post #22 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Drop the attitude and learn. Better yet - buy those subs and try to do what you propose with them. Then audition one of the highly recommended subs around here that is made to do what you were trying to accomplish and you'll realize it just doesn't work as well.

Ok. Here's the deal. You are obviously talking about using subwoofers to do extreme things in relatively meaningless bass ranges that aren't intended by the original movie soundtrack producers.

I speculate that you are doing with subwoofers what hot rodders do with vehicles. Nothing wrong with that, but to the VAST majority of people, they will consider that DJ gear I listed to be way, way over the top as it is. With some EQ/calibration those subs will seem very much like an 'over the top' bass experience. You may think those DJ subs aren't as good as subs with high xmax and thousands of watts with 120db @ 20Hz, but people don't need that extreme to get a thrilling experience from a pair of subs. Those DJ subs will be 'extreme' already to most people.

It would be like most people getting a thrill out of a 400-500 horse power car but you guys are going WAY over the top saying, "that's nothing we use 2000 horse power tractors and race while crushing old Yugo compacts along the way". Sorry, but most enthusiasts simply don't need to go to that extreme.
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post #23 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh brother...


When someone has nothing constructive to say, they resort to insults. This kind of thing shows who is losing the argument.
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post #24 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 09:28 AM
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Ok. Here's the deal. You are obviously talking about using subwoofers to do extreme things in relatively meaningless bass ranges that aren't intended by the original movie soundtrack producers.

This comment alone deserves a double head slap, but the one above drives my point home well enough. There are a lot of movies with content below 20Hz which has been intentionally added by the studios for effect. Search this very forum to find the threads that list which movies, which exact portions of these movies and even measurements to go with them.

By the way, you're the one losing the argument here, and I did not insult you or anyone else. My post was the same thing as this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

Sorry, but most enthusiasts simply don't need to go to that extreme.

Ahh, but they will, and they do. An enthusiast is defined as this:

a : one who is ardently attached to a cause, object, or pursuit
b : one who tends to become ardently absorbed in an interest

You really don't think the HT enthusiasts want to experience all of the content in the ultra low frequencies for movies? Now if you would have said the average Joe you would have had a case, but you didn't so you're just flat out incorrect here.

After everyone telling you you're wrong (which you are), you're still not getting it. That's your prerogative, but I doubt it'd be worth wasting any more of our time proving what's already been proven.

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post #25 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 09:28 AM
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This is so AVS. I love it.
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post #26 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you provide a link to this 25Hz limit.

This is common sense. You simply have to go research the gear used in the professional theaters and studios. I have done the footwork already and realized that the gear and setups you guys are using go WAY WAY WAY WAY beyond what the professionals are using.

It would behoove you as an enthusiast who doubts me to do a little of your own googling and investigating. I'm not going to dig it all back up and go over it with you.
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post #27 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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This comment alone deserves a double head slap, but the one above drives my point home well enough. There are a lot of movies with content below 20Hz which has been intentionally added by the studios for effect. Search this very forum to find the threads that list which movies, which exact portions of these movies and even measurements to go with them.

By the way, you're the one losing the argument here, and I did not insult you or anyone else. My post was the same thing as this:

I have read mentions of these movies in these threads but they link up absolutely no interview from the filmmakers saying they did this. Is this the infamous "Black Hawk Down" BS claim about 5Hz or something? lol Give me a break! The movie mastering and editing rigs often can't do 20Hz much better than 105db to 110db at MOST and forget about anything UNDER 20Hz. You people are too much. Do your homework.



Just because you can find (what I think is 'accidental' under-20Hz bass) in soundtracks, doesn't mean it was intended to be used, let alone used at 105db+ by a theater (and you won't find a professional theater that can pull this off for a large auditorium, maybe a rock concert setup).

My question to you is, if the professionals don't use 18" subs in 2000cuft rooms producing say 15Hz @ 120db SPL, then why would an enthusiast do it?

I already have your answer. You simply are enjoying an unnatural/unintended experience that YOU are creating yourself. And I recommend if you like artificial deep bass experiences, then go all the way and rig up sub-bass harmonic emulators that give more synthetic ultra-low bass in your soundtracks. I think if you want to produce an unnatural, yet thrilling bass experience, then don't rely on 'accidental' unfiltered bass that ended up in the soundtrack. Go all the way and do it with all soundtracks.
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post #28 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 09:40 AM
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These PA subs will -

a) output 20hz at high SPL
b) not output 20hz at high SPL
c) don't need to output 20hz because that is in the range of dangerous nazi infrasonics


If a) everything we know about drivers, enclosures, and PA gear in general is wrong
If b) OP is having a laugh by creating this thread
If c) Auditor has 2 accounts, this is the more aggressive personality
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post #29 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post


I already have your answer. You simply are enjoying an unnatural/unintended experience that YOU are creating yourself. And I recommend if you like artificial deep bass experiences, then go all the way and rig up sub-bass harmonic emulators that give more synthetic ultra-low bass in your soundtracks. I think if you want to produce an unnatural, yet thrilling bass experience, then don't rely on 'accidental' unfiltered bass that ended up in the soundtrack. Go all the way and do it with all soundtracks.

Actually you don't, because I never answered it. The content in live performances (lets say music - a live amplified concert) generally doesn't use ULF content. HT/movies do, which has already been proven by the measurements I mentioned above (that you refuse to look at).

Tell you what, contact the production studios and share you claims with them. If you're right, have them prove who they are and post here explaining all of the sub ULF content in every movie it exists in is accidental. Then we might take you seriously...but probably not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

I have read mentions of these movies in these threads but they link up absolutely no interview from the filmmakers saying they did this. Is this the infamous "Black Hawk Down" BS claim about 5Hz or something? lol Give me a break! The movie mastering and editing rigs often can't do 20Hz much better than 105db to 110db at MOST and forget about anything UNDER 20Hz. You people are too much. Do your homework.

Wow - you just don't get it. Did you go and look at the measurements that prove this content is there? Nope! Hmm...shall I believe measurements or someone's incorrect opinion? That's a tough one...I'll have to think it over for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

Just because you can find (what I think is 'accidental' under-20Hz bass) in soundtracks, doesn't mean it was intended to be used, let alone used at 105db+ by a theater (and you won't find a professional theater that can pull this off for a large auditorium, maybe a rock concert setup).

So you're saying that the content below 20Hz was accidentally added in every instance for every movie? And you're saying it was never intended to be used as well. Wow...We're done here. You're simply a person who cannot be reasoned with, even when the facts are staring you straight in the face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leninGHOLA View Post

These PA subs will -

a) output 20hz at high SPL
b) not output 20hz at high SPL
c) don't need to output 20hz because that is in the range of dangerous nazi infrasonics


If a) everything we know about drivers, enclosures, and PA gear in general is wrong
If b) OP is having a laugh by creating this thread
If c) Auditor has 2 accounts, this is the more aggressive personality

Hehe, good post.

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post #30 of 182 Old 03-07-2012, 09:52 AM
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Y
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

This is common sense. You simply have to go research the gear used in the professional theaters and studios. I have done the footwork already and realized that the gear and setups you guys are using go WAY WAY WAY WAY beyond what the professionals are using.

It would behoove you as an enthusiast who doubts me to do a little of your own googling and investigating. I'm not going to dig it all back up and go over it with you.

You keep saying that the movie industry can't provide deeper bass than this supposed 25Hz limit and then reference movie theaters were budget constraints would keep them from investing in what it would take to pressurize that area with sub 20Hz thats not the same thing as its not in the actual movie when for years there have been charts showing there is material below 20Hz and you can bet it was not done by accident it spurs sales.
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