Measuring the 'Tactile Feeling' of your sub system - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 96 Old 03-06-2012, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Up until recently, my all sealed sub system consisted of 2 eD A7S-450s and 2 vintage Cambridge Soundworks PSW1s. I placed my PSW1s nearfield, right behind the listening position. This made a big difference in tactile feeling.





With this system, I hit 111db at 10hz measured via REW in my 2100 cubic foot room.

I was itching to see what would happen if I upgraded my nearfield subs. I came across a great deal on a pair of LFM1-EXs, so I jumped on them and replaced my PSW1s. After much tweaking to try and get my sealed A7S-450s to play with my ported LFM1-Exs, I finally got the curve that I liked.





As you can see, both curves are pretty much +-1.5 db down to 10hz. HOWEVER, these curves sound or rather FEEL very different!!! I thought my sealed PSW1s were good, my ported LFM1-EXs add a completely new dimension to my listening experience!

I wonder why that is? My guess is fairly intuitive. My PSW1s rolled off at around 25hz, where as my Outlaws roll off at around 11hz. Obviously, a big difference in extension. However...from a 'sub system' frequency response standpoint, my FRs are pretty much the same!

As to which sounds/feel better, 1000% the outlaws! But it's counter intuitive that very similar FRs can sound/feel so different. Also, does a ported sub have more 'tactile' feel than sealed subs given the same FR. I would think not, but my subjective impressions is that yes they do. I've observed this in two different home theaters.

Also a MAJOR contributor to a sub system is its tactile feeling. The tactile 'dimension' for sub systems is such a HUGE (IMO, perhaps the most important) factor, that people subjectively discuss, but never really measure (in my perusing, anyway). You could potentially have a razor flat to 10hz system in a huge room w/o nearfield placement and compare it to a razor flat to 10hz system in a small room with nearfield placement, and there would be absolutely no question which people would prefer...the huge room would likely not have much if any tactile feeling or pressurization where as the smaller room would have it in spades. Everyone would prefer the pressurized, tactile feeling of the smaller room. So, to post a graph of a sub FR only tells a portion of the subwoofer story...you really need to add and eventually compare its tactile feeling to some sort of reference point so that we can all relate to your vantage point.

So, when we talk about subs, or rather subs systems; shouldn't we also have some sort of reference point that measures tactile feeling? After experiencing the shaking in my new setup, I would EASILY sacrifice extension, to nearfield placement for the tactile feeling all day, any day. In fact, I would recommend that to everyone.

So, I did some minor investigation on how this could be measured...and came across vibration meters....and wouldn't you know it, there's an app for that. I have no transducers...this is all sub listening at reference level, with my subs measuring at 112-115db on a concrete floor. See video below:



Here's the scale (MMS) for reference:

1.0 - Instrumental. Felt by animals
2.0 - Weak. Felt indoors by a few people
3.0 - Slight. Felt indoors by several
4.0 - Moderate. Hanging objects swing
5.0 - Rather Strong. Dishes broken
6.0 - Strong. Heavy furniture moved
7.0 - Very Strong. Difficult to stand
8.0 - Destructive. Fall of walls
9.0 - Violent. Noticeable ground cracks
10.0 - Intense. Almost destroyed
11.0 - Extreme. Rails bent greatly
12.0 - Cataclysmic. Total destruction

Here's the conversion to the Richter Scale:



I hit 7.0 (Very Strong. Difficult to stand) on the MMS Scale, and 5.0 on the Richter scale at my main LP!!! This was on the app; Vibration Meter for the Android. I was playing the Irene scene in Blackhawk Down. I hit 7.0 during the ULF portion (7hz or so) of that scene. I hit 7.4 with WOTW.

So, here's my questions to you all. All feedback is welcome:

1) Do you think some ported designs generate more tactile response than sealed, given the same FR?

2) To really determine the overall quality (all aspects) of a subwoofer system, should we start measuring the system's tactile response? What's the best way to measure tactile response?

3) While #2 remains unanswered, what's the best app across the Iphone, Android, etc. that we could start measuring the tactile response to get a general idea of our sub systems? Obviously, it would be beneficial to run the same app across OSs so that we could have a baseline...

4) If your so inclined to download the app, please share your results! Low and high numbers are welcome. We have no reference point, so it's all great info!

Lots of questions...would love any and all comments!

 

EDIT:

One of the reasons why I started this thread was I wanted to see if there was any tool or measurement that would allow me (and others) to really know how it 'feels' in each others room. Obviously, there are many factors that come into play and you'd never truly know how it 'feels', but my hope was that it would at least give you a general idea of what it feels like to watch a movie in your room.

Based on my experience and those who have contributed so far, I'd classify 'tactile feeling' in two ways:

  1. The shaking caused by physical objects (seating, floor, etc.) that are in contact with your body as a result of the pressure waves created by the sub or mechanical shaking of a transducer moving those physical objects. An example of this would be an 'earthquake'.
  2. The pressure waves traveling from the sub that come in contact with your body directly. I equate this sensation to the 'kick in the chest' sensation. An example of this would be a jet flying over, or another example would be blades of a helicopter. In this case, the pressure waves are directly affecting your body, and not indirectly through other objects. IOW, you could be standing in a concrete bunker and still feel this sensation.
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post #2 of 96 Old 03-06-2012, 09:50 PM
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very interesting commentary... same overall SPL levels tested? I mean the FR may look similar at 80dB, but does it between the two setups at 105 or 115dB -- IE are you encountering compression and limitations on the first setup over the second that the lower level captured FR graphs don't show.

anyways - subscribed...

before the 2012 blind meet in KC I would say YES ported is more tactile - after the blind meet when people couldn't tell the difference --- I don't know that I want to hazard a guess that this phenomenom is based just on ported vs. sealed. I do agree that certain subs are much more tactile than others -- and that it seems to have more to do than just a frequency response graph can show. That effect can be air movement from ports, etc - anything to stimulate your body outside of your actual hearing.

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post #3 of 96 Old 03-06-2012, 10:23 PM
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Some of the difference perhaps attributable to the degree of coupling between the subs and your floor / riser (noticed the PSW cabinet is laying right across the floor vs elevated on legs).
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post #4 of 96 Old 03-06-2012, 11:10 PM
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Why not get the best of both worlds (tactile and extension) by simply adding inexpensive bass shakers. You can have your cake and eat it too. You're welcome ;-)
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post #5 of 96 Old 03-06-2012, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post

Why not get the best of both worlds (tactile and extension) by simply adding inexpensive bass shakers. You can have your cake and eat it too. You're welcome ;-)

Excellent point. However...

IMO, transducers (bass shakers) and pure subwoofer sound wave shaking are two different animals. They can definitely augment each other, but to me, there's nothing more impressive than having your subs alone do it.

YMMV, but a transducer shake is very precise (e.g. localized to the area of the shaker). Whereas a soundwave shake is a different whole body experience.

Now, if you can't do nearfield or don't get that natural pressurization, then absolutely get transducers. However, if you can get sound waves to move you and your furniture, it's a much more satisfying and impressive experience, IMO.
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post #6 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 01:24 AM
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In my experience many factors affact subjective tacktile sensation from LF.
The sofa you sit, the coupling betwen the floor, even the clothes you wear all contribute such tactile feeling in addition to direct skin/body sensation.
Personally I do not like the vibration directed via sofa or floor ..etc.
They kinda blur and distract the skin/body feeling that I like.

Oftentimes in demoes I joined, the hosts were proud of the vibrations from LF
but the demo'ed piece has not much content below 30Hz.. I can see why the vibration from the sofa itself could enhance the experience to some people. To each his own I guess
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post #7 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

very interesting commentary... same overall SPL levels tested? I mean the FR may look similar at 80dB, but does it between the two setups at 105 or 115dB -- IE are you encountering compression and limitations on the first setup over the second that the lower level captured FR graphs don't show.

anyways - subscribed...

before the 2012 blind meet in KC I would say YES ported is more tactile - after the blind meet when people couldn't tell the difference --- I don't know that I want to hazard a guess that this phenomenom is based just on ported vs. sealed. I do agree that certain subs are much more tactile than others -- and that it seems to have more to do than just a frequency response graph can show. That effect can be air movement from ports, etc - anything to stimulate your body outside of your actual hearing.

Good point archaea. I did notice some compression with my psw1s at 110-115 or so, but it was around 70hz and up IIRC. Perhaps that is a big contributor to the difference of SQ between the two. It definitely sounds more full with the added headroom, but my previous system never really sounded stressed either.

In your blind meet, I'm guessing there was no tactile trend among the subs?
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post #8 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 07:53 AM
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Perhaps you'll notice some difference when on an empty stomach and not on an empty stomach as well? A good part of visceral impact is the fluids within your cavities resonating to lower notes.
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post #9 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 09:54 AM
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Very interesting thread. I have an HP SubM in a small room and often wonder how I can get more tactile feeling without simply turning up volume on the receiver or gain on the sub.

To that end, I put a door in a doorway that was previously doorless, and close the accordion-style double walls that lead to another room. (Almost completely sealing the room except there is some space above and underneath the doors) I have also tried many different locations around the room, but always find myself wanting more of that tactile feeling without the volume being too loud.

I know I can get it if I turn up the volume or gain to get what I'm looking for, but I feel like there must be another way...
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post #10 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post

Very interesting thread. I have an HP SubM in a small room and often wonder how I can get more tactile feeling without simply turning up volume on the receiver or gain on the sub.

To that end, I put a door in a doorway that was previously doorless, and close the accordion-style double walls that lead to another room. (Almost completely sealing the room except there is some space above and underneath the doors) I have also tried many different locations around the room, but always find myself wanting more of that tactile feeling without the volume being too loud.

I know I can get it if I turn up the volume or gain to get what I'm looking for, but I feel like there must be another way...

Have you tried it next to your listening position? That will surely get you the most tactile feeling.

How big is the room? Suspended or concrete floor?
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post #11 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Some of the difference perhaps attributable to the degree of coupling between the subs and your floor / riser (noticed the PSW cabinet is laying right across the floor vs elevated on legs).

So, would more coupling to the floor mean less tactile feeling?
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post #12 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post

Why not get the best of both worlds (tactile and extension) by simply adding inexpensive bass shakers. You can have your cake and eat it too. You're welcome ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Excellent point. However...

IMO, transducers (bass shakers) and pure subwoofer sound wave shaking are two different animals. They can definitely augment each other, but to me, there's nothing more impressive than having your subs alone do it.

YMMV, but a transducer shake is very precise (e.g. localized to the area of the shaker). Whereas a soundwave shake is a different whole body experience.

Now, if you can't do nearfield or don't get that natural pressurization, then absolutely get transducers. However, if you can get sound waves to move you and your furniture, it's a much more satisfying and impressive experience, IMO.

I have 2 friends with massive subwoofer systems on suspended floors. They both get massive tactile response through Acousic-mechanical coupling of the soundwaves to the floor. However, each floor has a "resonant frequency" and the A-M coupling is strongest at that resonant frequency. Outside the tight range around the resonant frequency, the effect is greatly diminished/completely lost. The tactile response they get in each of their respective rooms is different, and it is tied to the resonant frequency of their respective floors.

With a tactile transducer system, the transducer(s) respond to *all* frequencies they are sent. You get tactile response across the entire range of frequencies, not just the few at and around the resonant frequency of the floor. My Crowson transducers have response to 5 Hz. The sensation of shaking at 5 Hz is completely different than the sensation at 30 or 40 Hz. In the F'n Irene scene, or the WotW scenes with infrasonic bass, the the sensations I get with my Crowsons are totally different than my buddies get with their suspended floors. I can make mine just as powerful by turning up the amps, but they can't get the multi-frequency effects of the Crowson transducers.

Bottom line, while a resoanant suspended floor can offer some very interesting and cool effects, it can't do what a good transducer/shaker can do.

Craig

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post #13 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

So, would more coupling to the floor mean less tactile feeling?

This would depend on the type of coupling. If it's "mechno-mechanical" coupling, (i.e., a shaking subwoofer shaking a resonant floor), more coupling will result in greater tactile feel. OTOH, this effect can be reduced by de-coupling the sub from the floor with something like a SbDude.

If it's "acoustic-mechanical" coupling, (i.e., the soundwaves coupling with the floor and causing it to vibrate at it's resoanant frequency), then only an increase in SPL will increase the coupling. However, de-coupling with a SubDude will be less effective for acoustic-mechanical coupling.

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post #14 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I have 2 friends with massive subwoofer systems on suspended floors. They both get massive tactile response through Acousic-mechanical coupling of the soundwaves to the floor. However, each floor has a "resonant frequency" and the A-M coupling is strongest at that resonant frequency. Outside the tight range around the resonant frequency, the effect is greatly diminished/completely lost. The tactile response they get in each of their respective rooms is different, and it is tied to the resonant frequency of their respective floors.

With a tactile transducer system, the transducer(s) respond to *all* frequencies they are sent. You get tactile response across the entire range of frequencies, not just the few at and around the resonant frequency of the floor. My Crowson transducers have response to 5 Hz. The sensation of shaking at 5 Hz is completely different than the sensation at 30 or 40 Hz. In the F'n Irene scene, or the WotW scenes with infrasonic bass, the the sensations I get with my Crowsons are totally different than my buddies get with their suspended floors. I can make mine just as powerful by turning up the amps, but they can't get the multi-frequency effects of the Crowson transducers.

Bottom line, while a resoanant suspended floor can offer some very interesting and cool effects, it can't do what a good transducer/shaker can do.

Craig

Great points about the suspended floor. I've heard sub systems on them before and it was definitely a cool effect...just didn't listen long enough to really pay attention to how it changes with other frequencies.

Also, good education for me about transducers. Didn't know they went that low. I've heard them implemented where I believe the rolloff was 40hz or so, IIRC. This system had the benefit of transducers as well as pressurization shake, and is definitely a nice blend. He recently moved his subs to the front stage so that none were nearfield any longer. His wife actually requested they go back to nearfield, because she wasn't getting that chest impact that nearfield subs provide!!! (what a good wife!) I guess that would be one tactile sensation that couldn't be reproduced by a transducer.

So, with my system being on a concrete floor, I don't have that resonant frequency vibrating the floor, in turn vibrating the HT seats. So, my tactile sensations are for all frequencies as well, correct? It's really my subs doing all the shaking.
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post #15 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 09:51 PM
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Dominguez, what do you think would happen if you replaced your outlaws with a single A7S as you have up front? Do you think you would achieve the same results in terms of impact and tactile feel? Or do you think it's the ports that has it that way?
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post #16 of 96 Old 03-07-2012, 10:35 PM
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I prefer my concrete floors over my wooden riser for the back row of seats. The wooden floors are more tactile but with the concrete floors you feel all of the bass on you and your chair. When the floor resonance it takes away some of that sensation. Pressurizing every seat is easy in my room. Or course all the bass is from waves and not the subs which are on the concrete floor(carpet).
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post #17 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 05:07 AM
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I can attest to what Craig and Ken are saying. I have my SubMersive HP in a second floor theater. Craig has been kind enough to calibrate the system for me. I have my sub on a Gramma platform, just because I used my other sub on it. I had a big couch until recently. I would get great tactile feelings through that couch with my HP sub. Then, I bought two lazyboy recliners. There is much less "chair" in contact with the floor as compared to my old sofa. Not that I don't feel the sub, it's just a different feeling.

About a month ago I had Craig come over again because I was just curious to see if his Crowson tactile things would work on my chairs. To be honest I did not know what to expect but in reality, I was not expecting that much. Boy was I wrong. When we played TRON, WOTW,and HTTYD my I was in shock. The chair was not vibrating all over the place and what have you. Instead, it just added so much more to the experience. I was really shocked. In fact, as soon as I get my amp, I plan on having a Crowson setup on one of my chairs. The cool factor was just to much for me to let go.

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post #18 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 06:08 AM
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Craig, are your transducers much better than the cheapie Aura bass shakers? I've used the Aura shakers before (in fact I still have them sitting in my garage 4 or 5 years later...) but I didn't like them. They seemed artificial and I just couldn't get it right.
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post #19 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Craig, are your transducers much better than the cheapie Aura bass shakers? I've used the Aura shakers before (in fact I still have them sitting in my garage 4 or 5 years later...) but I didn't like them. They seemed artificial and I just couldn't get it right.

I don't have any experience with the Aura products. However, my understanding is that their bandwidth is significantly higher than what I would want for tactile response. I have my Crowsons LPF'd at 40 Hz, so all I get is ULF's and infrasonics. This is the range were tactile response is "natural". The range addressed by the Auras is much higher, 40 Hz up to several hundred Hz. I expect that I would find shaking at those frequencies very unnatural and distracting. Maybe that' what you found also?

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post #20 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I don't have any experience with the Aura products. However, my understanding is that their bandwidth is significantly higher than what I would want for tactile response. I have my Crowsons LPF'd at 40 Hz, so all I get is ULF's and infrasonics. This is the range were tactile response is "natural". The range addressed by the Auras is much higher, 40 Hz up to several hundred Hz. I expect that I would find shaking at those frequencies very unnatural and distracting. Maybe that' what you found also?

Craig

I had those little MOD crossovers and the LPF was supposedly 50 hz but maybe those were junk and were letting higher bass through.
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post #21 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post


I had those little MOD crossovers and the LPF was supposedly 50 hz but maybe those were junk and were letting higher bass through.

The F-mods have a 12 dB/octave slope, so they do allow some higher frequencies through. Still you should have been down 12 dB by 100 Hz. I don' believe the Auras have infrasonic capabilities though. Maybe that's the big difference.

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post #22 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

The F-mods have a 12 dB/octave slope, so they do allow some higher frequencies through. Still you should have been down 12 dB by 100 Hz. I don' believe the Auras have infrasonic capabilities though. Maybe that's the big difference.

Craig

Ok, gotcha. Yeah, probably why they were so cheap.
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post #23 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 08:16 AM
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You mite want to change the incrimental Db's to get a better look at the response, its funny how a few Db here and a little less there can make a difference.

Nice use of multiples ! Check out that graph
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post #24 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

Dominguez, what do you think would happen if you replaced your outlaws with a single A7S as you have up front? Do you think you would achieve the same results in terms of impact and tactile feel? Or do you think it's the ports that has it that way?

That's a really tough question. Stick with me on this...

My guess would be no, that the eD would have less tactile feel. My guess is that by mixing ported and sealed subs together in a room, that the ported subs actually have to work harder (because of the different designs, phase, etc.) to produce the same SPL as an all sealed system. In my tweaking to get my ideal FR, my eq adjustments on both the eD and Outlaw (have an eq.2 for both pairs) really provided counter intuitive results.

For example, when I would raise a certain frequency on the Outlaw, at times I would see a DECLINE in db instead of an increase. I also saw the opposite of that as well. I really had to play with the frequency, width, and level I was adjusting to get what I wanted, and like I mentioned, it was counter-intuitve. Another example: I wanted to see what would happen when I engaged the subsonic filter on the eQ.2 connected to the Outlaws...it actually RAISED the response, instead of cutting it! My assumption is that an all sealed system would play nicer together and better behave as you would think.

Having said all that, since the Outlaws are working harder to achieve the same SPL, it is actually displacing more air than if it were an A7S back there. More air displacement would mean more tactile feel and more impact.

Does my theory hold any weight? What do you guys think?
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post #25 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I prefer my concrete floors over my wooden riser for the back row of seats. The wooden floors are more tactile but with the concrete floors you feel all of the bass on you and your chair. When the floor resonance it takes away some of that sensation. Pressurizing every seat is easy in my room. Or course all the bass is from waves and not the subs which are on the concrete floor(carpet).

MK, do you have an Andriod phone or have access to one? I'd love to see what level you'd hit on the Richter scale.

Actually, that goes to anyone following (Craig John, Carp, Archaea, etc.). I'd really like to see what others are getting on an 'earthquake' scale. It's a free app. Maybe there's also one for the iPhone...
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My wife has an iphone, I just have a crap phone.

I probably won't get a chance to check until the weekend but I'll see if the iphone has it.

I hope so, I think this is pretty cool. I'd like to compare the Submersive in the front corner and then near-field. In a couple of weeks I'll compare duals the same way.
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post #27 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 11:14 AM
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MK, do you have an Andriod phone or have access to one? I'd love to see what level you'd hit on the Richter scale.

Actually, that goes to anyone following (Craig John, Carp, Archaea, etc.). I'd really like to see what others are getting on an 'earthquake' scale. It's a free app. Maybe there's also one for the iPhone...

I have an iPhone and a galaxy tablet.
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post #28 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 11:27 AM
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Up until recently, my all sealed sub system consisted of 2 eD A7S-450s and 2 vintage Cambridge Soundworks PSW1s. I placed my PSW1s nearfield, right behind the listening position. This made a big difference in tactile feeling.

With this system, I hit 111db at 10hz measured via REW in my 2100 cubic foot room.

I was itching to see what would happen if I upgraded my nearfield subs. I came across a great deal on a pair of LFM1-EXs, so I jumped on them and replaced my PSW1s. After much tweaking to try and get my sealed A7S-450s to play with my ported LFM1-Exs, I finally got the curve that I liked.

As you can see, both curves are pretty much +-1.5 db down to 10hz. HOWEVER, these curves sound or rather FEEL very different!!! I thought my sealed PSW1s were good, my ported LFM1-EXs add a completely new dimension to my listening experience!

I wonder why that is? My guess is fairly intuitive. My PSW1s rolled off at around 25hz, where as my Outlaws roll off at around 11hz. Obviously, a big difference in extension. However...from a 'sub system' frequency response standpoint, my FRs are pretty much the same!

As to which sounds/feel better, 1000% the outlaws! But it's counter intuitive that very similar FRs can sound/feel so different. Also, does a ported sub have more 'tactile' feel than sealed subs given the same FR. I would think not, but my subjective impressions is that yes they do. I've observed this in two different home theaters.

Also a MAJOR contributor to a sub system is its tactile feeling. The tactile 'dimension' for sub systems is such a HUGE (IMO, perhaps the most important) factor, that people subjectively discuss, but never really measure (in my perusing, anyway). You could potentially have a razor flat to 10hz system in a huge room w/o nearfield placement and compare it to a razor flat to 10hz system in a small room with nearfield placement, and there would be absolutely no question which people would prefer...the huge room would likely not have much if any tactile feeling or pressurization where as the smaller room would have it in spades. Everyone would prefer the pressurized, tactile feeling of the smaller room. So, to post a graph of a sub FR only tells a portion of the subwoofer story...you really need to add and eventually compare its tactile feeling to some sort of reference point so that we can all relate to your vantage point.

So, when we talk about subs, or rather subs systems; shouldn't we also have some sort of reference point that measures tactile feeling? After experiencing the shaking in my new setup, I would EASILY sacrifice extension, to nearfield placement for the tactile feeling all day, any day. In fact, I would recommend that to everyone.

So, I did some minor investigation on how this could be measured...and came across vibration meters....and wouldn't you know it, there's an app for that. I have no transducers...this is all sub listening at reference level, with my subs measuring at 112-115db on a concrete floor. See video below:



Here's the scale (MMS) for reference:

1.0 - Instrumental. Felt by animals
2.0 - Weak. Felt indoors by a few people
3.0 - Slight. Felt indoors by several
4.0 - Moderate. Hanging objects swing
5.0 - Rather Strong. Dishes broken
6.0 - Strong. Heavy furniture moved
7.0 - Very Strong. Difficult to stand
8.0 - Destructive. Fall of walls
9.0 - Violent. Noticeable ground cracks
10.0 - Intense. Almost destroyed
11.0 - Extreme. Rails bent greatly
12.0 - Cataclysmic. Total destruction

Here's the conversion to the Richter Scale:

I hit 7.0 (Very Strong. Difficult to stand) on the MMS Scale, and 5.0 on the Richter scale at my main LP!!! This was on the app; Vibration Meter for the Android. I was playing the Irene scene in Blackhawk Down. I hit 7.0 during the ULF portion (7hz or so) of that scene. I hit 7.4 with WOTW.

So, here's my questions to you all. All feedback is welcome:

1) Do you think some ported designs generate more tactile response than sealed, given the same FR?

2) To really determine the overall quality (all aspects) of a subwoofer system, should we start measuring the system's tactile response? What's the best way to measure tactile response?

3) While #2 remains unanswered, what's the best app across the Iphone, Android, etc. that we could start measuring the tactile response to get a general idea of our sub systems? Obviously, it would be beneficial to run the same app across OSs so that we could have a baseline...

4) If your so inclined to download the app, please share your results! Low and high numbers are welcome. We have no reference point, so it's all great info!

Lots of questions...would love any and all comments!

What percent THD was that?
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post #29 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I have an iPhone and a galaxy tablet.

The galaxy tablet should work. It's android based. The app is called Vibration Meter.

Are you willing to give it a try? I'm planning to measure the vibrations the floor above to see what the rest of the house feels like.
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post #30 of 96 Old 03-08-2012, 11:46 AM
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The galaxy tablet should work. It's android based. The app is called Vibration Meter.

Are you willing to give it a try? I'm planning to measure the vibrations the floor above to see what the rest of the house feels like.

I will try it, I did not see it on my iPhone. I am +/- 3 dBs from 7-120hz. I have hit 123 dBs at 10hz.
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