Elemental Designs A7-450 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

you must be mistaken, because I just received these dual subs not even a week ago. I have never run a single test until today on them.

You might be thinking of my old dual A5-350s.

Definitely not thinking of your old subs. Just going off a conversation you and I had a few months ago at the emotiva forums.

Nice to see that you can't beat actual in home performance that you can see and hear with your own ears, as opposed to just going off and basing your opinions on the complete opposite.

Your actual ownership of the subs is testament to that. I speak from similar experience as well.

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post #32 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I hate to say it, but I have no idea what conversation that would have been. I know I wouldnt have stated anything about subs that I didnt even own nor hear yet.
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post #33 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

I have a video of both of them playing at Reference level 82(0db)
10hz test tone hitting 102dbs

Ported subs hitting that many db's at 10hz? Wow!

What are they tuned to? Port plug in one port?
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post #34 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Im uploading the vid to youtube now.
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post #35 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 03:45 PM
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It's all about the room.

A 30' long space, has significant PVG reciprocity onset at approx 19hz, continuing on lower. So as long as the electronics don't high pass anything, you'll have acoustic support beginning about where the sub begins to roll off. Then Audyssey balances and trims any excess.

Where were those measurements taken?



Thanks for sharing

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post #36 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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main listening posistion.
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post #37 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 04:04 PM
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Indeed. My room is almost 38' so I get 15Hz reinforced so my 16Hz and 12Hz is stronger than my 20Hz. I haven't checked lower yet.

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post #38 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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post #39 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Gabriel Gerena View Post

Indeed. My room is almost 38' so I get 15Hz reinforced so my 16Hz and 12Hz is stronger than my 20Hz. I haven't checked lower yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

It's all about the room.

A 30' long space, has significant PVG reciprocity onset at approx 19hz, continuing on lower. So as long as the electronics don't high pass anything, you'll have acoustic support beginning about where the sub begins to roll off. Then Audyssey balances and trims any excess.

Where were those measurements taken?



Thanks for sharing

I learn something everyday.
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post #40 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 04:44 PM
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So was it worth the upgrade over the a5 350's.
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post #41 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by subpro View Post

So was it worth the upgrade over the a5 350's.

IMO, yes. I wanted more output than I ever needed.
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post #42 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 04:59 PM
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I'm surprised the tone is so audible. I've never tried tones that low in my room.

Here is how stupid I am. I'm watching the video thinking, wow, the subs sound/feel really powerful... uh, oh wait, that's my sub I'm hearing...

Told you this before, but I love the room - one of my all time favorites on avs. Since you are not in a basement do your neighbors ever complain about the bass?
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post #43 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 05:15 PM
 
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Nice. I'm sure beening in a room with out a concrete floor helps them some also. It would have its own effect on the subs perceived output also.
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post #44 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'm surprised the tone is so audible. I've never tried tones that low in my room.

Here is how stupid I am. I'm watching the video thinking, wow, the subs sound/feel really powerful... uh, oh wait, that's my sub I'm hearing...

Told you this before, but I love the room - one of my all time favorites on avs. Since you are not in a basement do your neighbors ever complain about the bass?

Whats funny Carp, I built this house about a year or so ago. We decided to build in a new subdivision close to where I grew up. Great thing is, the subdivision is so new, no one lives here other than me. My lot is one acre and not a single other house in here. So NO NEIGHBORS!!
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post #45 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 06:53 PM
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I should get a lot out there next to you so we can have some base wars. LOL
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post #46 of 185 Old 03-11-2012, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by the_abbot View Post

I should get a lot out there next to you so we can have some base wars. LOL

it is nice here.
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post #47 of 185 Old 03-12-2012, 09:40 AM
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That driver looks awesome.
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post #48 of 185 Old 03-12-2012, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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That driver looks awesome.

It is a beast.
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post #49 of 185 Old 03-12-2012, 10:41 AM
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Hello nezff... fantastic set up btw! Not to get off track here but I am curious how you like the ED 12's for mains as compared to the Klipsch's you had?
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post #50 of 185 Old 03-12-2012, 11:27 AM
 
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Just came up on your thread,man the A7-450 looks sexy,but my goodness there huge!. Can you have a video if possible with audio playing and a quick tour?. (never mind,saw the video above)
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post #51 of 185 Old 03-12-2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

Just came up on your thread,man the A7-450 looks sexy,but my goodness there huge!. Can you have a video if possible with audio playing and a quick tour?. (never mind,saw the video above)

+1 I can only "drool" as I wish I had that set up
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post #52 of 185 Old 03-12-2012, 11:35 AM
 
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@Skally yeah!,i bet they sound awesome with dts-hd audio
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post #53 of 185 Old 03-12-2012, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skally View Post

Hello nezff... fantastic set up btw! Not to get off track here but I am curious how you like the ED 12's for mains as compared to the Klipsch's you had?

Well. I was going to demo these at first. I had it in my head that I was not going to like them and my klipsch were way better. I was wrong. I never even hooked them back up. I boxed the klipsch up, bought these and ordered the the rest of the setup. There is a full review and impressions over at eDs site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

Just came up on your thread,man the A7-450 looks sexy,but my goodness there huge!. Can you have a video if possible with audio playing and a quick tour?. (never mind,saw the video above)

Got some videos of them playing with and without the cinemas. I plan on doing some better vids when the rest of the cinemas arrive. The current vids are just a taste so to speak and will probably be removed. I just wanted possible customers to see and hear the cinemas.

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+1 I can only "drool" as I wish I had that set up

Thanks

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@Skally yeah!,i bet they sound awesome with dts-hd audio

They do. I watched a couple bluray scenes.
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post #54 of 185 Old 03-12-2012, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

Well. I was going to demo these at first. I had it in my head that I was not going to like them and my klipsch were way better. I was wrong. I never even hooked them back up. I boxed the klipsch up, bought these and ordered the the rest of the setup. There is a full review and impressions over at eDs site.

Thank you for the reply back! I wll have to check that out. I have a pair of modified KG5.5's that I really like but you know how things go... " always looking for the holy grail" ( or at least that how I have been told )
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post #55 of 185 Old 03-12-2012, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'm surprised the tone is so audible. I've never tried tones that low in my room.

That tone is not actually audible. Any perception of sound is due to mechanical/air movement.
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post #56 of 185 Old 03-13-2012, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticG8R View Post

That tone is not actually audible. Any perception of sound is due to mechanical/air movement.

the only audible thing is my door shaking in the rear of the room
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post #57 of 185 Old 03-13-2012, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticG8R View Post

That tone is not actually audible. Any perception of sound is due to mechanical/air movement.

It's possible, however what we're hearing in that video is just as you state, the mechanical actions of items moving in the room, and air movement via the ports perhaps.

To utilize tones this low, you've got to determine the actual distortion level of the sine wave generator to begin with. Many so called tone generators are heavily fraught with high levels of distortion.

Also, and most importantly here, is the threshold of human hearing at these low frequencies. Our hearing and detection of these very low frequencies is anything but linear. It varies according to level, and with frequency. The threshold at 10hz is approximately 98-100dB. Conversely, the threshold at 20hz, one octave higher, is about 70db.

That said a pure, undistorted tone, at of 10hz and 100 db is barely audible. However, 100dB at 20hz is 30dB above audibility. Playing loud, low frequency tones indoor, creates all types of noisy artifacts in structural movement, driver noise, port noise, items within the room vibrating etc. I prefer to purchase small sticky back felt pads, and with tone generators at various frequencies, go around the room and seek out noise producing items,...and silence them. There is even a hand held, hard wired remote called "The Rattler", just for such use.

Additionally, even if you fed the drivers a pure 10hz tone, and you were in a concrete bunker with no moving parts and pieces for room noise, the sound emanating from a sub system is likely to be a significant amount of upper harmonic distortion.

All said, still the room shaking, and all the accompanying sounds are still very exciting, and add a wonderful visceral component to the HT experience.


Thanks for sharing

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post #58 of 185 Old 03-13-2012, 07:54 AM
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Thanks FOH, I've learned a lot from reading your posts.
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post #59 of 185 Old 03-13-2012, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Thanks FOH, I've learned a lot from reading your posts.

As have I.
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post #60 of 185 Old 03-13-2012, 02:41 PM
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While it is no match for the A7-450, I'm reminded of the July 1998 test of the HSU TN-1220HO which put out 101 db at 12.5Hz. These were passive subs that cost $450. Various amps could be used, but the favorite was the 500 watt amp sold by HSU exactly for the TN1220HO. When used with dual subs the 500 watt amp could deliver 400 watts to each sub. By colocating one could achieve 107 db at 12.5Hz for an expenditure of ~$1,500. With all that said your system is one to envy.
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