suggestions for a new sub - AVS Forum
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

I have a HT/daylight basement that's about 24 ft long and 10 ft wide for about half of the room and widens to about 15 ft. My current sub is an older AV123 ufw-10 that's about 7 yrs old. The usage is about 75% movies, 20% games and 5% music. I just recently switched my receiver to a Denon AVR 1712, which seems to have decreased the subwoofer output somehow (or it could just be me). First of all, is that sub adequate for that room? Would anything around $300 work? I am planning to keep the old sub too to maybe have a dual sub setup but would that work with 2 different manufacturers? Thanks for your help.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:49 AM
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If $300 is you budget my thought is used. You may find a duplicate of what you have. I encourage duals or quads ( which i understand isnt in your budget, but just throwing it out there ).

There are budget measuring equipment out there also, i would hope one of the other guys who have more info about that may chime in.

Try Audiogon for a used sub or you may be stick with a sub not quite like you already have.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/vel...000r-subwoofer

Here's a nice Velo that would be approx what you may find
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:38 PM
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Check out the budget subwoofers thread. There are quite a number to choose from.

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Old 03-11-2012, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Check out the budget subwoofers thread. There are quite a number to choose from.

Hi Jim,

I checked out the budget woofer thread. It has a lot of info. Sorry to keep asking for recommendations but I just want to find a decent sub that will suit my needs. What size driver would you recommend if I am keeping the old sub for a dual setup?
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doodoo729 View Post

Hi Jim,

I checked out the budget woofer thread. It has a lot of info. Sorry to keep asking for recommendations but I just want to find a decent sub that will suit my needs. What size driver would you recommend if I am keeping the old sub for a dual setup?

It is highly recommended that you don't mix two different sub manufacturers.
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doodoo729 View Post

I checked out the budget woofer thread. It has a lot of info. Sorry to keep asking for recommendations but I just want to find a decent sub that will suit my needs. What size driver would you recommend if I am keeping the old sub for a dual setup?

The budget subwoofer thread did turn out to be larger than I anticipated, so you aren't the first person who's been overwhelmed by it. I've toyed with several modifications to try and make it less intimidating but really haven't found a format that would keep the necessary information without burying you in links. A necessary evil, so to speak.

Your room is rather large, so a commensurate subwoofer is warranted. In other words, the bigger the better. Because of that, bass reflex is really the preferable type. Coincidently, that's what the vast majority of subs in the $300 price range are, so you're good there. Integrating two disparate subs is not for the faint of heart though, so I would caution against it. Whatever you choose now should ideally be capable of handling your needs by itself, otherwise you're in for a lot of tweaking. It can be done, but it won't be easy. That being said...

Based upon the assumption you'll be using a single sub here are a few that are worth considering:
  • OSD PS12 {I evaluated the smaller version, the PS10, and found it to be very competent}
  • Lava LSP12 {avsfroum members get a 15% discount on all Lava subs}
  • BIC H100 or F12
  • Acoustic Audio HD-SUB15
  • Premier Acoustic PA-150
The PA-150 is a bit more than you planned on spending. However, Acoustic Sound Design has an "offer" system where you can suggest a price. Often they'll accept 10-15% less then the advertised price, so that gets you closer to $350. Given your circumstances, I think you'll find the extra $50 or so was definitely worth spending.

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Old 03-12-2012, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all your inputs. That list really helped narrowed down my quest for a better sub.

Is it true that the woofer can be placed either at the front or the back as long as it's in a corner? How does BIC PL-200 compare to the rest of the list? My friend just got an F-12 and it's pretty impressive. Now I just need to figure out what I am going to do with my old sub......
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjclecky View Post

It is highly recommended that you don't mix two different sub manufacturers.

Really??? I have 2 Paradigm Subs and was thinking of selling one and getting a HSU sub! So I guess i shouldn't go ahead with this then! Lol.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jjclecky View Post

It is highly recommended that you don't mix two different sub manufacturers.

Can you explain why? I always thought it doesnt matter with subwoofers! Of course you would want to match your front soundstage!
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doodoo729 View Post

Is it true that the woofer can be placed either at the front or the back as long as it's in a corner? How does BIC PL-200 compare to the rest of the list? My friend just got an F-12 and it's pretty impressive. Now I just need to figure out what I am going to do with my old sub......

The PL-200 is another good choice, probably even better than the F-12. acousticsounddesign.com also sells that one, with the same "make an offer" option, so you can generally get it for less then $300. Others on this forum have picked them up for around $280 by doing that very thing.

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Old 03-12-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Stylz25 View Post

Can you explain why? I always thought it doesnt matter with subwoofers! Of course you would want to match your front soundstage!

Matching the front soundstage is crucial because of how much those 3 speakers interact, so they need to have the same "voice" characteristics (also referred to as timbre matching). Subs have their own sound signature too, so disparate units don't always blend well either. There's also different levels of SPL, lower extension, sensitivity, etc. And in the OP's case he was thinking of integrating acoustic suspension with bass reflex, yet another complexity.

Whenever possible it's best to match as much as you can, especially if you listen to any music. In general, you'll find few people who advocate using dissimilar speakers or subs.

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Old 03-12-2012, 01:08 PM
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I plan on flattening my response of my main subwoofer, quad 15's...with a pair of 12" Dayton subs, all depends on how you use them... To do my initial experiment i used BIC subs which are ported, they worked fine also

With the use of multiple subs, measuement gear is a must, to get them right....
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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saw someone putting their "rarely used" AV123 mfw-15 for sale, and yes, it's over what I was planning to spend. is it something that worth spending ~$450 on? although it will match my other speakers, how important is that? if i do decide to up my budget to $450, is there a better alternative to the mfw-15?
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by doodoo729 View Post

saw someone putting their "rarely used" AV123 mfw-15 for sale, and yes, it's over what I was planning to spend. is it something that worth spending ~$450 on? although it will match my other speakers, how important is that? if i do decide to up my budget to $450, is there a better alternative to the mfw-15?

An mfw-15? Oh boy, you did it now. Better duck!

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Old 03-13-2012, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

An mfw-15? Oh boy, you did it now. Better duck!

wow, that bad huh? i heard about a bad batch of amps but otherwise i thought the reviews were generally decent.
i guess i will just pick between PA-150 or PL-200.
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Old 03-14-2012, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by doodoo729 View Post

wow, that bad huh? i heard about a bad batch of amps but otherwise i thought the reviews were generally decent.
i guess i will just pick between PA-150 or PL-200.

Actually the sub itself was considered quite the value by most, and there were ("were" being the key word) a significant number of ardent fans. The bad amps caused a lot of trouble, as did the debacle that ensued prior to the companies collapse. There are a lot of unhappy ex-owners, for sure. AAMOF, some have taken to calling them AV666 instead of AV123.

Frankly I'm surprised no one else posted. Generally when you mention that name you get replies from those burned by the fiasco.

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Old 03-14-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

An mfw-15? Oh boy, you did it now. Better duck!

After all this time people are actually looking for MFW-15's. Some can be decent if they have the V3 version of the amp. Others are wanted so that the owner can upgrade to the Turbo option.

Still others are using them for a sort of DIY.

But, $450 is probably not a reasonable price unless you know the owner or have very detailed information on the unit...
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