In need of sub(s) for 7000cu ft family room - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 48 Old 03-13-2012, 02:21 PM
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FYI we have an 18.1 design avaiable(ported, new driver and amp) now as well, much more budget freindly, probably will be our best value offering, still working on the web page for it, but it can be ordered now. Flat to 14hz in our 7000+ cubic foot test room.

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post #32 of 48 Old 03-13-2012, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

If you're willing to spend the $5k I'd go with the powered caps. It sounds like you've got a lot on your plate. Jeff already put in the work/expertise to optimize the amp. I don't think it's likely you'll spend $5k with the passives and amp(s) and exceed what he's done. Even if that's possible you'd spend a lot of time and the difference would be small.
If you really like to tinker disregard the above.
Just my 2¢.
Tim

I would agree with Tim here. If you've got the budget for it and you want to simplify your setup with no fan noise, go with the powered caps.

If you're up for some experimentation and would like to save a few dollars, the passive caps offer substantial value.
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post #33 of 48 Old 03-13-2012, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

If you're willing to spend the $5k I'd go with the powered caps. It sounds like you've got a lot on your plate. Jeff already put in the work/expertise to optimize the amp. I don't think it's likely you'll spend $5k with the passives and amp(s) and exceed what he's done. Even if that's possible you'd spend a lot of time and the difference would be small.
If you really like to tinker disregard the above.
Just my 2¢.
Tim

Thanks Tim, that is exactly what Jeff said when he called me back this afternoon. It seems like I will end up with two powered caps. Now my only problem is I'm afraid once I experience the caps, I am going to want to replace my Energy setup with JTR speakers
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post #34 of 48 Old 03-13-2012, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Thanks Tim, that is exactly what Jeff said when he called me back this afternoon. It seems like I will end up with two powered caps. Now my only problem is I'm afraid once I experience the caps, I am going to want to replace my Energy setup with JTR speakers

You're in for a real treat. And you're right, I'm willing to bet jtr mains will be on your short list.
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post #35 of 48 Old 03-13-2012, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Thanks Tim, that is exactly what Jeff said when he called me back this afternoon. It seems like I will end up with two powered caps. Now my only problem is I'm afraid once I experience the caps, I am going to want to replace my Energy setup with JTR speakers

So did you order them?

Ray

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post #36 of 48 Old 03-13-2012, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by raehza View Post

So did you order them?

Ray

No, not today...I never jump into a multi thousand$$$ purchase in one day. My house is now being framed, so I have a little time to decide for sure. I am really digging the idea of powered caps, but am also considering the Funk Audio options. Time will tell
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post #37 of 48 Old 03-13-2012, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post


No, not today...I never jump into a multi thousand$$$ purchase in one day. My house is now being framed, so I have a little time to decide for sure. I am really digging the idea of powered caps, but am also considering the Funk Audio options. Time will tell

Did you browse the "audition" thread to see if there is anyone in your area with the products you are interested in? You might can get a friendly first-hand listen.

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post #38 of 48 Old 03-13-2012, 09:31 PM
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If you aren't married to the Caps yet, you might as well call both Mark Seaton and Nathan at Funk Audio and see what they can do for you. Its all about options.
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post #39 of 48 Old 03-14-2012, 04:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

Did you browse the "audition" thread to see if there is anyone in your area with the products you are interested in? You might can get a friendly first-hand listen.

I did not, thank you for the suggestion. That will be my project this morning.

Jjackrash- Thank you as well. I have been writing back and forth with Nathan, and have looked at the Seaton options as well. I just get the idea that the Subm Hp doesn't quite match up with the Caps...I may be wrong, just from the threads I have read, it seems that way. It is certainly a little less expensive and would take up a little less space. The biggest thing that has scared me off is the fact that more than once, I have read about people adding a third or fourth subm...I have no seen this with the Cap as much. Thoughts??
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post #40 of 48 Old 03-14-2012, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I did not, thank you for the suggestion. That will be my project this morning.

Jjackrash- Thank you as well. I have been writing back and forth with Nathan, and have looked at the Seaton options as well. I just get the idea that the Subm Hp doesn't quite match up with the Caps...I may be wrong, just from the threads I have read, it seems that way. It is certainly a little less expensive and would take up a little less space. The biggest thing that has scared me off is the fact that more than once, I have read about people adding a third or fourth subm...I have no seen this with the Cap as much. Thoughts??

For me in a blind test I thought dual Submersives were more impressive for movies and music. They had more authority down low, especially with the War of the Worlds scene. The peak numbers don't back me up on that, but that's how I perceived it.

However, in my own room I felt the exact opposite when comparing a single Cap to a single Submersive (movies only).

It could have been that the inuke amp used at the blind G2G didn't push the Caps as hard as the EP4000 did in my room, I don't know.

Now, a powered Cap does have a significant output advantage over a Submersive, I've heard that comparison too.

In all comparisons I like the sound quality of the Submersive better, but thats just personal preference, some like the sound of the Cap better.
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post #41 of 48 Old 03-14-2012, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post


I did not, thank you for the suggestion. That will be my project this morning.

Jjackrash- Thank you as well. I have been writing back and forth with Nathan, and have looked at the Seaton options as well. I just get the idea that the Subm Hp doesn't quite match up with the Caps...I may be wrong, just from the threads I have read, it seems that way. It is certainly a little less expensive and would take up a little less space. The biggest thing that has scared me off is the fact that more than once, I have read about people adding a third or fourth subm...I have no seen this with the Cap as much. Thoughts??

I wouldn't read too much into that, one Submersive HP could give me reference level bass in my sealed 3700 cu ft HT but I got 2 for a larger sweet spot and FR smoothing. 2 is way more than enough yet I still consider getting 2 more to put one in each corner then rotate my set up 90° and move the seating to the center. Then I could have an even larger sweet spot and accommodate bigger HT seating.
If look at bsoko's history he's literally had > a dozen sub systems over the last decade or two so getting a third or fourth for FR smoothing or bigger sweet spot wouldn't surprise me since he's got the tweak bug/bass addiction pretty bad.
That said dual powered Caps would still be my recommendation for your situation unless you feel you'd miss the below ~15 hz content the Submersives would give. Either way with your budget you're in for a treat.
Tim
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post #42 of 48 Old 03-14-2012, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

For me in a blind test I thought dual Submersives were more impressive for movies and music. They had more authority down low, especially with the War of the Worlds scene. The peak numbers don't back me up on that, but that's how I perceived it.

However, in my own room I felt the exact opposite when comparing a single Cap to a single Submersive (movies only).

It could have been that the inuke amp used at the blind G2G didn't push the Caps as hard as the EP4000 did in my room, I don't know.

Now, a powered Cap does have a significant output advantage over a Submersive, I've heard that comparison too.

In all comparisons I like the sound quality of the Submersive better, but thats just personal preference, some like the sound of the Cap better.

Thanks, I just read your entire thread on the comparison and the tough choice you had in selling the caps. My bigges thing is that I will use the setup 90% for movie watching and 10% for music. That said, when the music is on, it will be on at a moderate level most times at a dinner party type event, so ultimately, I wll listen to "louder" music and push the system maybe 5% of the time. This is what keeps bringing me back to the powered caps(the most expensive option..damn!). It is about a thousand bucks over budget for subs, but I would rather take a few weeks and put together the extra scratch for the sub that will fit my needs best.

Has anyone gotten to compare Funk Audio stuff to the caps??
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post #43 of 48 Old 03-14-2012, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

No, not today...I never jump into a multi thousand$$$ purchase in one day. My house is now being framed, so I have a little time to decide for sure. I am really digging the idea of powered caps, but am also considering the Funk Audio options. Time will tell

Have you considered an infinite baffle setup?
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post #44 of 48 Old 03-14-2012, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post


Have you considered an infinite baffle setup?

+1
If you're still in the building phase IB represents the best performance per dollar. At least look into it.
Tim
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post #45 of 48 Old 03-14-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I did not, thank you for the suggestion. That will be my project this morning.

Jjackrash- Thank you as well. I have been writing back and forth with Nathan, and have looked at the Seaton options as well. I just get the idea that the Subm Hp doesn't quite match up with the Caps...I may be wrong, just from the threads I have read, it seems that way. It is certainly a little less expensive and would take up a little less space. The biggest thing that has scared me off is the fact that more than once, I have read about people adding a third or fourth subm...I have no seen this with the Cap as much. Thoughts??

I didn't have the luxury of comparing these top subs before I bought my SubM, so I can't really give you a comparison, I had to make my decision based solely on what I read. What I will say is, I have an open 15' x 50' x 8' room that is open to the rest of the house, and I rarely, if ever, get to listen to my rig at reference levels because it would drive everyone else out of that room. A few weeks ago when my wife was away with the boy I watched Transformers, Dark Side of the Moon at reference level and, frankly, it was over the top. I just couldn't do that to myself that often.

Also, where I think the SubM really shines is how it just blends in with the rest of the system, especially on music or when a movie has a classical score. You don't get that distracting "rumble" you get from lessor subs and it really stays in the background until the scene calls for it, then it punches you in the face. It is really hard to describe how clean it sounds. I just can't say enough good things about this sub, but, again, I did not have the luxury of comparing it to the other big boys being discussed here and I am sure that you will be happy with whatever you decide based on the choices you are considering.

One thing to keep in mind is that some of the members here are truly bass junkies and run multiple big subs sometimes 10db's hot. I frankly have a hard time believing that two SubM's in your room wouldn't please all but the most addicted bass junkie, and I would bet a dollar to a dime that two would drive most normal people out of the room running at or near max output.

Good luck, and have fun shopping!
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post #46 of 48 Old 03-14-2012, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

Have you considered an infinite baffle setup?

I have. I had an IB setup once before and they are great. My concern with IB is that I don't have the luxury of experimentation, once I pick a spot in the build, thats it. If the spot doesn't turn out to be the best, I'm stuck with it anyway. My other conern with IB is that below the room is the kids game room and above and to the rear is the master bedroom. It doesn't leave me much option for placement without completely offending the associated areas(not that two caps won't do that too, but the IB would be worse)
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post #47 of 48 Old 03-14-2012, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post

I didn't have the luxury of comparing these top subs before I bought my SubM, so I can't really give you a comparison, I had to make my decision based solely on what I read. What I will say is, I have an open 15' x 50' x 8' room that is open to the rest of the house, and I rarely, if ever, get to listen to my rig at reference levels because it would drive everyone else out of that room. A few weeks ago when my wife was away with the boy I watched Transformers, Dark Side of the Moon at reference level and, frankly, it was over the top. I just couldn't do that to myself that often.

Also, where I think the SubM really shines is how it just blends in with the rest of the system, especially on music or when a movie has a classical score. You don't get that distracting "rumble" you get from lessor subs and it really stays in the background until the scene calls for it, then it punches you in the face. It is really hard to describe how clean it sounds. I just can't say enough good things about this sub, but, again, I did not have the luxury of comparing it to the other big boys being discussed here and I am sure that you will be happy with whatever you decide based on the choices you are considering.

One thing to keep in mind is that some of the members here are truly bass junkies and run multiple big subs sometimes 10db's hot. I frankly have a hard time believing that two SubM's in your room wouldn't please all but the most addicted bass junkie, and I would bet a dollar to a dime that two would drive most normal people out of the room running at or near max output.

Good luck, and have fun shopping!

I appreciate all that feedback! It really makes the decision tough. I would love to get to audition all the major contenders before purchase, but looking through the audition thread, there just isn't anything that near to me. I would love to spend a little less and go with a Funk Audio setup or Cap S models or Submersive HP and know that SQ is top notch, while delivering the the punch in the chest and shake of the floor.
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post #48 of 48 Old 03-14-2012, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post


I have. I had an IB setup once before and they are great. My concern with IB is that I don't have the luxury of experimentation, once I pick a spot in the build, thats it. If the spot doesn't turn out to be the best, I'm stuck with it anyway. My other conern with IB is that below the room is the kids game room and above and to the rear is the master bedroom. It doesn't leave me much option for placement without completely offending the associated areas(not that two caps won't do that too, but the IB would be worse)

Good enough reasons. My room would be perfect for an IB but I know I'll move at some point (for a deep water dock) so I didn't bother.
Tim
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