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post #121 of 148 Old 05-22-2014, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, so after all that, in your opinion would you go with 4 S2s or 2 OSs for a large room?

Wow... this is such an old thread.

Ok here's my answer.

1. Don't listen to ppl on this forum. A single OS is all any sane person will ever need. I don't even use the full power of my OS. If I turn it up my ceiling starts to peel off. I used to turn up my OS in demos and ppl can only take 10 mins of it.

2. Now if you are talking about placements then multiple subs would dedinitely give you a smoother bass response. So if money is no object definitely 2 S2s or more.

3. Affordability. If you can afford one then definitely a single OS as a single S2 might not give you what you want. If you can afford 2 then 2 S2s for sure as I prefer sealed subs anytime.

4. Btw. The HSUs 15s can't compare with the OS. You might need 10 of those to equate the output of a single OS.
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post #122 of 148 Old 05-22-2014, 10:07 PM
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Wow... this is such an old thread.

Ok here's my answer.

1. Don't listen to ppl on this forum. A single OS is all any sane person will ever need. I don't even use the full power of my OS. If I turn it up my ceiling starts to peel off. I used to turn up my OS in demos and ppl can only take 10 mins of it.

2. Now if you are talking about placements then multiple subs would dedinitely give you a smoother bass response. So if money is no object definitely 2 S2s or more.

3. Affordability. If you can afford one then definitely a single OS as a single S2 might not give you what you want. If you can afford 2 then 2 S2s for sure as I prefer sealed subs anytime.

4. Btw. The HSUs 15s can't compare with the OS. You might need 10 of those to equate the output of a single OS.


2 S2s are in the budget. Interesting that you would go with this choice when it sounds like the OS is more than anyone would ever need. sealed subs even for a large room?

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post #123 of 148 Old 05-22-2014, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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2 S2s are in the budget. Interesting that you would go with this choice when it sounds like the OS is more than anyone would ever need. sealed subs even for a large room?

Three reasons.

1. Sealed subs are cleaner and smoother for music.

2. 2 S2 would have the same output as a single OS above 20hz and 4 times the output below 20hz. A single S2 on the other hand will ve lacking in the all important 20hz up therefore my choice of a single OS as budget is the constraint

3. With 2 subs you can place one in front and another at the back or where it will create the smoothest bass responds.
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post #124 of 148 Old 05-22-2014, 10:23 PM
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makes perfect sense. thank you.

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post #125 of 148 Old 05-22-2014, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jaimectrs View Post


Wow, so after all that, in your opinion would you go with 4 S2s or 2 OSs for a large room?

Did you know that with 4 S2's is like 8 OS 20hz under.. And dual OS above.. And vise versa..smile.gif
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post #126 of 148 Old 05-22-2014, 10:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you know that with 4 S2's is like 8 OS 20hz under.. And dual OS above.. And vise versa..smile.gif

Haha rhed... we all know... insane...
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post #127 of 148 Old 05-22-2014, 11:22 PM
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Haha rhed... we all know... insane...

Actually I didn't know that until a board member told me a few months ago.
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post #128 of 148 Old 05-23-2014, 06:26 AM
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Did you know that with 4 S2's is like 8 OS 20hz under.. And dual OS above.. And vise versa..smile.gif


It does help put things in perspective, I think I'll go with two S2s...to start;)

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post #129 of 148 Old 06-15-2014, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by jaimectrs 


2 S2s are in the budget. Interesting that you would go with this choice when it sounds like the OS is more than anyone would ever need. sealed subs even for a large room?


Three reasons.

1. Sealed subs are cleaner and smoother for music.

2. 2 S2 would have the same output as a single OS above 20hz and 4 times the output below 20hz. A single S2 on the other hand will ve lacking in the all important 20hz up therefore my choice of a single OS as budget is the constraint

3. With 2 subs you can place one in front and another at the back or where it will create the smoothest bass responds.
Btw, how do you find the OS in the ULF region? Do you feel you're missing out on anything or can't tell much difference?

Also you mentioned sealed sounds better for music and smoother, does that mean the OS is different sounding?

Thanks!
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post #130 of 148 Old 06-16-2014, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

A single S2 on the other hand will ve lacking in the all important 20hz up


Lacking? It's capable of, what, 129db above 20hz? That's not enough?

This isn't an attack against anyone, or anyone's listening habits and preferences etc., I've just been seriously wondering these things lately... How loud do people listen to? Or am I just weird (or lucky?) if one SB12-NSD is more than enough for me in my 3,2k cubic feet room? Data-bass shows 81db at 12.5hz with an SB12. That's about 5db's louder than what I listen to my music and movies at. And I know headroom is important, but do you really need that much of it?
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post #131 of 148 Old 06-16-2014, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by jaimectrs 


2 S2s are in the budget. Interesting that you would go with this choice when it sounds like the OS is more than anyone would ever need. sealed subs even for a large room?


Three reasons.

1. Sealed subs are cleaner and smoother for music.

2. 2 S2 would have the same output as a single OS above 20hz and 4 times the output below 20hz. A single S2 on the other hand will ve lacking in the all important 20hz up therefore my choice of a single OS as budget is the constraint

3. With 2 subs you can place one in front and another at the back or where it will create the smoothest bass responds.
Btw, how do you find the OS in the ULF region? Do you feel you're missing out on anything or can't tell much difference?

Also you mentioned sealed sounds better for music and smoother, does that mean the OS is different sounding?

Thanks!
That is a false perception. In blind testing people often cannot tell the difference between ported, sealed, and horns. If you think about it logically, why would a 17 Hz port tune have any affect at all on music frequencies above 40 Hz?

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post #132 of 148 Old 06-17-2014, 04:21 AM - Thread Starter
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That is a false perception. In blind testing people often cannot tell the difference between ported, sealed, and horns. If you think about it logically, why would a 17 Hz port tune have any affect at all on music frequencies above 40 Hz?
You can't use the so-called 'blind tests' that we so often hear about.. they are not valid tests. Music is re-interpreted by the brain all the time (the brain fixes small anomalies or try to fix something to sound alike even when they don't). And a few minutes or even an hour here or there to figure out what's what is not a good test.

When you have 2 system, one with ported subs and another with sealed at home, and you get a chance to listen to them for many days on end, and have many materials played on them, you'll eventually get an opinion on which you like better... i have had these type of opportunities and i often turn off my Ported subs for music... and turn them back on for movies.

I have had multiple type subs over the years... sealed trounces ported every time for music...
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post #133 of 148 Old 06-17-2014, 04:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Lacking? It's capable of, what, 129db above 20hz? That's not enough?

This isn't an attack against anyone, or anyone's listening habits and preferences etc., I've just been seriously wondering these things lately... How loud do people listen to? Or am I just weird (or lucky?) if one SB12-NSD is more than enough for me in my 3,2k cubic feet room? Data-bass shows 81db at 12.5hz with an SB12. That's about 5db's louder than what I listen to my music and movies at. And I know headroom is important, but do you really need that much of it?
As great as 'numbers' are, they are not quite the same thing in real life experiences.. you can have 2 different speakers with identical 'sensitivity ratings' and have completely different sounds coming out of them.

No matter what way you cut it, a heavy subwoofer driver that can produce down to 20hz isn't going to produce frequencies from 80hz to 150hz as well as a lighter driver designed for those frequencies.

Remember, ratings just mean, the drivers are capable to play 'tones' over the entire spectrum.. but music or movies materials in real life have 'multiple tones' playing ALL AT ONCE... a driver playing a 20hz tone and called to play a 150hz tone at the same time isn't going to cut it...
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post #134 of 148 Old 06-17-2014, 05:31 AM
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You can't use the so-called 'blind tests' that we so often hear about.. they are not valid tests. Music is re-interpreted by the brain all the time (the brain fixes small anomalies or try to fix something to sound alike even when they don't). And a few minutes or even an hour here or there to figure out what's what is not a good test.

When you have 2 system, one with ported subs and another with sealed at home, and you get a chance to listen to them for many days on end, and have many materials played on them, you'll eventually get an opinion on which you like better... i have had these type of opportunities and i often turn off my Ported subs for music... and turn them back on for movies.

I have had multiple type subs over the years... sealed trounces ported every time for music...
The people who attend the G2G's are also extremely confident in their ability to identify their "superior" or "preferred" sub, you know, the ones they have countless hours listening to.....until the curtain is drawn .....

But I guess that is not fair since you can't "see" whether you are listening to your preferred sub or not anymore...that's pretty much the point of blind testing...it removes bias.....along with false perceptions.

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post #135 of 148 Old 06-17-2014, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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The people who attend the G2G's are also extremely confident in their ability to identify their "superior" or "preferred" sub, you know, the ones they have countless hours listening to.....until the curtain is drawn .....

But I guess that is not fair since you can't "see" whether you are listening to your preferred sub or not anymore...that's pretty much the point of blind testing...it removes bias.....along with false perceptions.
I think you're missing my point entirely...

THis is not a 'guess what speaker's playing'.

This is an extended by yourself listening comparison and then making a choice on your preference...

I suppose if you're blinded and driven around a mercedes and a bmw, you might not be able to the tell the difference.. but when you start driving both cars for extended periods of time, you may come to like one over another..

And in all the subs i have owned, ported or sealed, i have always liked listening to music with my sealed. When i put on the ported, for some reason i liked it less...

I don't have anything to 'proof' here.. there are no one around.. just me, alone in my room and i owned both types of subs.... so, there is no 'bias'.. just preference...

BTW: Like I said, simple blind tests in the GTGs have too many holes.. they are not as controlled as you think for all variables... 'brain fatique for one'... the best comparison is if you have 2 system in your home and you have plenty of time to audition them and then find out what you prefer...
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post #136 of 148 Old 06-17-2014, 06:36 AM
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As great as 'numbers' are, they are not quite the same thing in real life experiences.. you can have 2 different speakers with identical 'sensitivity ratings' and have completely different sounds coming out of them.

No matter what way you cut it, a heavy subwoofer driver that can produce down to 20hz isn't going to produce frequencies from 80hz to 150hz as well as a lighter driver designed for those frequencies.

Remember, ratings just mean, the drivers are capable to play 'tones' over the entire spectrum.. but music or movies materials in real life have 'multiple tones' playing ALL AT ONCE... a driver playing a 20hz tone and called to play a 150hz tone at the same time isn't going to cut it...
Thanks for the response but I think you missed my point there...

My point was; whenever I read some sub recommendations for people here, they always fixate on max output like it's all that matters. Ie. I play my movies at 85db and my current sub can produce pretty much everything at those levels without overdriving it. But I was still recommended the ported equivalent of the same sub because it has more max output in certain low frequencies and around port tune. Why? Just for headroom's sake? There's plenty of headroom available with my sub on my listening levels. Do I need 20-30db of headroom? I know room size is a major factor in sub performance but I'm assuming the S2 measurements were taken outside like they usually are. This is why I asked is 129db (without room gain) not enough, even tho' it is on just a single frequency.

This is why I've been wondering how loud do people listen to. 85db is pretty loud for me and anyone I know.
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post #137 of 148 Old 06-17-2014, 07:07 AM
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Thanks for the response but I think you missed my point there...

My point was; whenever I read some sub recommendations for people here, they always fixate on max output like it's all that matters. Ie. I play my movies at 85db and my current sub can produce pretty much everything at those levels without overdriving it. But I was still recommended the ported equivalent of the same sub because it has more max output in certain low frequencies and around port tune. Why? Just for headroom's sake? There's plenty of headroom available with my sub on my listening levels. Do I need 20-30db of headroom? I know room size is a major factor in sub performance but I'm assuming the S2 measurements were taken outside like they usually are. This is why I asked is 129db (without room gain) not enough, even tho' it is on just a single frequency.

This is why I've been wondering how loud do people listen to. 85db is pretty loud for me and anyone I know.

You are talking about headroom as a waste yet you have a S2 for 85 dB listening? You my friend are doing the same.


I agree with Bear, the subs sound the same except when you have more extension which gives more weight to the bass.
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post #138 of 148 Old 06-17-2014, 07:32 AM
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You are talking about headroom as a waste yet you have a S2 for 85 dB listening? You my friend are doing the same.
I have an SVS SB12 in a 3,2k cf room, as stated in my previous post. I just mentioned the S2 because coolgeek said it lacks output from 20hz on up. Which led me to my question how loud people really listen to their music and movies. S2 is rated 129db above 20hz?

And I never said headroom is a waste. I know it's important. I just wondered how much you really need it.
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I agree, many here want the headroom so we can run the sealed all the way down to where our signal chain allows. Many who promote the OS over the CapS2 play their LFE over 10 dBs hot which means the headroom of the OS above 20hz will come into play. I bet with a properly calibrated LFE both playing the same reference levels will be a different story. 115 dBs peaks on either should sound the same except the S2 will have a deeper bandwidth as well.
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post #140 of 148 Old 06-17-2014, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response but I think you missed my point there...

My point was; whenever I read some sub recommendations for people here, they always fixate on max output like it's all that matters. Ie. I play my movies at 85db and my current sub can produce pretty much everything at those levels without overdriving it. But I was still recommended the ported equivalent of the same sub because it has more max output in certain low frequencies and around port tune. Why? Just for headroom's sake? There's plenty of headroom available with my sub on my listening levels. Do I need 20-30db of headroom? I know room size is a major factor in sub performance but I'm assuming the S2 measurements were taken outside like they usually are. This is why I asked is 129db (without room gain) not enough, even tho' it is on just a single frequency.

This is why I've been wondering how loud do people listen to. 85db is pretty loud for me and anyone I know.
If you're happy with what your sub produces that's all that matters...

In fact, for me it's not that much about headroom.. i have far, far, more than enough with my single OS... in fact, i have to turn it way down...

But even at lower volumes, i prefer my Dual HSUs (sealed) for music listening... It's only when I need a lot of deep bass (for movies) that I turn on my OS...
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post #141 of 148 Old 06-17-2014, 08:05 AM
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I agree, many here want the headroom so we can run the sealed all the way down to where our signal chain allows. Many who promote the OS over the CapS2 play their LFE over 10 dBs hot which means the headroom of the OS above 20hz will come into play. I bet with a properly calibrated LFE both playing the same reference levels will be a different story. 115 dBs peaks on either should sound the same except the S2 will have a deeper bandwidth as well.
True if you listen at reference levels. Which is what I find hard to understand, because to me reference is insanely loud and then some. Does everyone listen at reference levels? Would make a lot more sense for people to focus on the max output if they do.

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post #142 of 148 Old 06-17-2014, 08:14 AM
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I do.
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post #143 of 148 Old 06-22-2014, 07:32 PM
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I think you're missing my point entirely...

THis is not a 'guess what speaker's playing'.

This is an extended by yourself listening comparison and then making a choice on your preference...

I suppose if you're blinded and driven around a mercedes and a bmw, you might not be able to the tell the difference.. but when you start driving both cars for extended periods of time, you may come to like one over another..

And in all the subs i have owned, ported or sealed, i have always liked listening to music with my sealed. When i put on the ported, for some reason i liked it less...

I don't have anything to 'proof' here.. there are no one around.. just me, alone in my room and i owned both types of subs.... so, there is no 'bias'.. just preference...

BTW: Like I said, simple blind tests in the GTGs have too many holes.. they are not as controlled as you think for all variables... 'brain fatique for one'... the best comparison is if you have 2 system in your home and you have plenty of time to audition them and then find out what you prefer...

FWIW the OS driver is mounted into a sealed enclosure facing into a fourteen foot horn path. It is not the same as ported design.

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post #144 of 148 Old 06-23-2014, 09:35 AM
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Quote:Originally Posted by jaimectrs 


Wow, so after all that, in your opinion would you go with 4 S2s or 2 OSs for a large room?


Wow... this is such an old thread.

Ok here's my answer.

1. Don't listen to ppl on this forum. A single OS is all any sane person will ever need. I don't even use the full power of my OS. If I turn it up my ceiling starts to peel off. I used to turn up my OS in demos and ppl can only take 10 mins of it.

2. Now if you are talking about placements then multiple subs would dedinitely give you a smoother bass response. So if money is no object definitely 2 S2s or more.

3. Affordability. If you can afford one then definitely a single OS as a single S2 might not give you what you want. If you can afford 2 then 2 S2s for sure as I prefer sealed subs anytime.

4. Btw. The HSUs 15s can't compare with the OS. You might need 10 of those to equate the output of a single OS.
Who are you to say what anyone else needs in their room? Not everyone's room or listening habits are the same so sweeping statements like this are irrelevant. I have 2 OS's because one could not do what I wanted n my 12,000ft3 room. I have sealed subs as well as the OS's and there is no difference in how "clean' they are....in fact I would say the shifters are actually cleaner which is backed up by the design and Jeff's own comments. It's fine to voice opinions but the way you make sweeping statements as if they are fact just confuses and misleads newer members.

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post #145 of 148 Old 06-23-2014, 09:35 PM
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^^ +1 for me... of course you know my opinion since I have 3 of them. Once I really got my OS(s) tuned I could not get enough of them. I felt the OS were cleaner too but that was pretty much because I could drive my empire to tears!

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post #146 of 148 Old 06-24-2014, 01:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
FWIW the OS driver is mounted into a sealed enclosure facing into a fourteen foot horn path. It is not the same as ported design.
I understand. That's why it still sounds cleaner than other ported subs i have heard. Though, i still prefer the sealed subs right out in terms of perceived clean bass... (btw: i still say the OS is tough to beat in terms of sheer power and output for movies).
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post #147 of 148 Old 06-24-2014, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by subyguy View Post
Who are you to say what anyone else needs in their room? Not everyone's room or listening habits are the same so sweeping statements like this are irrelevant. I have 2 OS's because one could not do what I wanted n my 12,000ft3 room. I have sealed subs as well as the OS's and there is no difference in how "clean' they are....in fact I would say the shifters are actually cleaner which is backed up by the design and Jeff's own comments. It's fine to voice opinions but the way you make sweeping statements as if they are fact just confuses and misleads newer members.
I was asked a direct question and gave my opinion. Don't need to jump into someone's private conversation and be nasty about it if you don't like my opinion... For every topic there are a myriad of opinions and yours is yours... mine is mine.. and the person didn't ask you the question.
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post #148 of 148 Old 06-24-2014, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
I was asked a direct question and gave my opinion. Don't need to jump into someone's private conversation and be nasty about it if you don't like my opinion... For every topic there are a myriad of opinions and yours is yours... mine is mine.. and the person didn't ask you the question.
Ha,little sensitive are you? If you actually read what I said you would notice that I said it's fine to state an opinion but not preach to others like yours is the only answer...especially when what you're saying is subjective at best and just plain wrong at worst.

By the way, if you want to have a private conversation try taking it to PM...do you understand what a public forum is?
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