Dirty power? hum/buzz...Help.. New Rythmik's - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Setup is 2 new rythmik subs that get a intermittent hum/buzz. It does not happen all the time. Sometimes they are dead quiet.
What I've done so far:

Unplugging the coax to the sub did nothing to the buzz

I unplugged everything but the power to the subs and still have buzz
(dish,amp,pro,cd,dvd,phones)

Then I turned off the power breakers to the entire house except for the dedicated Theater circuit which only had the subs plugged in, still have a buzz.

Tried a cheater plug and still have a buzz from the subs.

Any ideas?.....help....
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post #2 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 11:54 AM
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Sounds like it could be the amps themselves or you have the gain cranked up to high.
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post #3 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Sounds like it could be the amps themselves or you have the gain cranked up to high.


I have calibrated all the speaker to 75db which puts the subs at 1 o-clock.
I did try turning the volume down on the subs with no change in the buzz.
Sometimes they are dead silent so...
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post #4 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 12:03 PM
 
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Could also be a poorly bonded house ground at the panel, Neutral could need to be check to make sure it is secure at both the meter and panel.

Then again, without jnowing the age of the home and age of the electrical system, we only know half the problem.
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post #5 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Could also be a poorly bonded house ground at the panel, Neutral could need to be check to make sure it is secure at both the meter and panel.

Then again, without jnowing the age of the home and age of the electrical system, we only know half the problem.

The home is old but the theater circuit is new 12ga 20 amp to the panel and the service main line set is new out to the meter.
I'll check the ground rod.
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post #6 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 12:16 PM
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If you have a voltmeter check and make sure you have 110v at the socket this can be as high as 124v in some areas but it should be somewhere in those ranges a bad neutral will cause a buzz and kill electronics at the same time I have seen it drop the voltage to 90v. Best to check or have an electrician look at it if you are not familiar with AC and it would be safer. One other note separate grounds cause hums and buzz
all grounds should tie at the service if not call the electrician.
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post #7 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

If you have a voltmeter check and make sure you have 110v at the socket this can be as high as 124v in some areas but it should be somewhere in those ranges a bad neutral will cause a buzz and kill electronics at the same time I have seen it drop the voltage to 90v. Best to check or have an electrician look at it if you are not familiar with AC and it would be safer. One other note separate grounds cause hums and buzz
all grounds should tie at the service if not call the electrician.

I will check the voltage at the outlet.
I do understand home ac (general contractor)
Thanks for the ideas.
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post #8 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Voltage fluctuates between 119 and 120. I would say thats normal.
I did notice when it was buzzing that the buzz itself fluctuates a little??
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post #9 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 04:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

If you have a voltmeter check and make sure you have 110v at the socket this can be as high as 124v in some areas but it should be somewhere in those ranges a bad neutral will cause a buzz and kill electronics at the same time I have seen it drop the voltage to 90v. Best to check or have an electrician look at it if you are not familiar with AC and it would be safer. One other note separate grounds cause hums and buzz
all grounds should tie at the service if not call the electrician.

Standard is 120 in the US. 110 has not been used for quite a few decades.
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post #10 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 04:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboswede95 View Post

The home is old but the theater circuit is new 12ga 20 amp to the panel and the service main line set is new out to the meter.
I'll check the ground rod.

That does not tell us how old the place is. For all we know, it could have been built in the 80's. As for the new circuit, it could be wire that was ran last week, but the panel could be in sad shape, or the drop to the house is on its final leg. Also checking the ground rod is not going to do anything.
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post #11 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 04:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboswede95 View Post

Voltage fluctuates between 119 and 120. I would say thats normal.
I did notice when it was buzzing that the buzz itself fluctuates a little??

Take the surge protector that it is plugged into out of the loop, and just plug the amp into a outlet. See if the buzz is still there.
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post #12 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Take the surge protector that it is plugged into out of the loop, and just plug the amp into a outlet. See if the buzz is still there.

I don't have the subs or my 5 channel amp plugged into a surge protector.
All the other components are.
The sub still buzzed when everything else was unplugged.
Maybe I should try plugging the subs into the surge protector.
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post #13 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 04:25 PM
 
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If your sub is buzzing when plugged into the outlet, plugging it into the surge may not work. I would start by making sure that the Neutral from the outlet to the panel is not switched, nor do you have what is called a "Bootlegged" ground, which is where a person connects the Neutral to the ground screw on a outlet also, so that it passes as that there is a ground, when actually there isn't.

From there, go down to the panel, if you are comfortable with working in it, and make sure that all of the screws securing the grounds and Neutrals are tight, along with the screws for the hot to the breakers.

My guess is, that you have a questionable ground on the circuit, causing the line hum. Now of course, if you are not comfortable with playing with the electrical system, calling an electrician, not a handyman is in order. Also, contact your electrical supplier, and tell them that you are seeing problems with your electrical system, and they can check to make sure that the Neutral is correctly hooked up at both the transformer and the house.

Another item to check, is making sure that your panel is bonded to the cold water pipe, if it is copper, and if there is a water meter inside the house, there should be a bonding jumper that connects both sides that enter and exit the water meter. Also check the ground connection for tv & telephone, since they can introduce line noise if not connected to earth ground properly.

In older structures, line noise hum is common, especially if the system has not been maintained over the years, or changes have been made over the years. A new electrical system should not, if the panel and wiring have been changed in the house. I have a whole house Surge protector, and proper grounds for both my telco & POCO, so I do not get line noise problems, plus the whole electrical system in the home was updated in 2003.
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post #14 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

If your sub is buzzing when plugged into the outlet, plugging it into the surge may not work. I would start by making sure that the Neutral from the outlet to the panel is not switched, nor do you have what is called a "Bootlegged" ground, which is where a person connects the Neutral to the ground screw on a outlet also, so that it passes as that there is a ground, when actually there isn't.

From there, go down to the panel, if you are comfortable with working in it, and make sure that all of the screws securing the grounds and Neutrals are tight, along with the screws for the hot to the breakers.

My guess is, that you have a questionable ground on the circuit, causing the line hum. Now of course, if you are not comfortable with playing with the electrical system, calling an electrician, not a handyman is in order. Also, contact your electrical supplier, and tell them that you are seeing problems with your electrical system, and they can check to make sure that the Neutral is correctly hooked up at both the transformer and the house.

Another item to check, is making sure that your panel is bonded to the cold water pipe, if it is copper, and if there is a water meter inside the house, there should be a bonding jumper that connects both sides that enter and exit the water meter. Also check the ground connection for tv & telephone, since they can introduce line noise if not connected to earth ground properly.

In older structures, line noise hum is common, especially if the system has not been maintained over the years, or changes have been made over the years. A new electrical system should not, if the panel and wiring have been changed in the house. I have a whole house Surge protector, and proper grounds for both my telco & POCO, so I do not get line noise problems, plus the whole electrical system in the home was updated in 2003.

Neutral is correct. Theater circuit is new, panel is new, line set is new, and the meter is all new. (5 years) there is older wiring in the house but it all looks ok in the panel.
I will look around some more.
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post #15 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 05:22 PM
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Think about a lost Neutral in a nearby neighbor's house.

Kevin
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post #16 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 05:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post

Think about a lost Neutral in a nearby neighbor's house.

Or even at the pole mounted transformer, or pedestal mount, if underground, for their property.
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post #17 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 05:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboswede95 View Post

Neutral is correct. Theater circuit is new, panel is new, line set is new, and the meter is all new. (5 years) there is older wiring in the house but it all looks ok in the panel.
I will look around some more.

I have seen problems with brand new electrical systems. Things can happen in five years, that can cause problems down the road.
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post #18 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 05:49 PM
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The ground rod will affect it if the cable co was to lazy to bond back to the main service ground and just hammered a ground rod near their drop you now have a ground loop.
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post #19 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 05:52 PM
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All of the suggestions around grounding and neutral wiring are assuming there is a 60hz hum from the driver, right? He said there is a buzzing when no inputs are connected, just the power cord. I'd hate to have him climbing utility poles looking for loose wires if he doesn't need to...
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post #20 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 05:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hoffmand34 View Post

All of the suggestions around grounding and neutral wiring are assuming there is a 60hz hum from the driver, right? He said there is a buzzing when no inputs are connected, just the power cord. I'd hate to have him climbing utility poles looking for loose wires if he doesn't need to...

Say what? If the OP can rule out all possible problems by having the POCo confirm on their side and up to the house, that the electrical system is in check, and going by what the OP stated about the inside, that rules out the majority. As for the hum, only way that it would not be a 60hz hum, is if they live where they use 50hz for the electrical system, or the amp is just hosed.
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post #21 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 06:16 PM
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I assume this is a standard iec cord with just 2 lugs a hot and a neutral on the power cord ?
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post #22 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I assume this is a standard iec cord with just 2 lugs a hot and a neutral on the power cord ?

The cords have hot/neutral and ground.
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post #23 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboswede95 View Post

The cords have hot/neutral and ground.

I know its not designed for it but have you tried a cheater plug with no ground (a poor man's ground lift) just to rule out another problem.
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post #24 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 06:44 PM
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A buzz without a signal cable connected is highly unlikely to be any sort of ground loop. It could be a bad connection in the amp, but having the problem with two subs makes that unlikely. I suggest looking for an RFI/EMI problem. Could be tricky, but see what is running when they buzz. HVAC, fridge, fluorescent lights, etc.

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post #25 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

A buzz without a signal cable connected is highly unlikely to be any sort of ground loop. It could be a bad connection in the amp, but having the problem with two subs makes that unlikely. I suggest looking for an RFI/EMI problem. Could be tricky, but see what is running when they buzz. HVAC, fridge, fluorescent lights, etc.

I have turned off every breaker in the house minus the theater.. still buzzing
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post #26 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I know its not designed for it but have you tried a cheater plug with no ground (a poor man's ground lift) just to rule out another problem.

Tried that too
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post #27 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 07:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboswede95 View Post

I have turned off every breaker in the house minus the theater.. still buzzing

Take it somewhere else and test it to rule out the house wiring. All bets are on, that you have a wonky unit, and there probably is nothing wrong with the wiring, if you still get the buzzing after taking it elsewhere and testing it.
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post #28 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 07:03 PM
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Have you tried this sub at a friends house just trying to rule out the sub?
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post #29 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 07:17 PM
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Excuse if already answered, but to double-check: the buzz is coming from the speakers themselves, or the amp or around the box? That is, is it a mechanical box from someplace around the box, or coming out of the speakers?

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post #30 of 76 Old 03-15-2012, 08:00 PM
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I am also puzzled by what turbo has experienced. I had a customer a while back also had similar issue. For his case, it was a buzz whenever he plugged in his Panasonic plasma TV. He later resolved the issue by wiring one outlet from a dedicated circuit beaker different from the cicuit breaker on. The buzz is due to high frequency noise generated by the switching power supplier in TV being injected into power line. That high frequency component can cause the transformer core to saturate and create buzz noise. His previous sub didn't have this problem because it uses a switching power supplier. What is odd is I also have a Panasonic plasma TV and I don't have that problem. On the other hand, my setup is not as quiet in terms of background noise. I have a dish receiver with DVR. The hard driver in there is pretty noisy. In my office, I did experience the noise from Laser printer first hand. Whenever the printer turn on or warm up, there is a short buzz on the amplifier that I am testing.
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