Is grounded extension cable out of power strip into sub necessary? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 03-16-2012, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I have x2 mfw-15 subs stacked just out of range of my APC surge protector. I assume using a surge protector on my subs is a good idea so I'm wondering if I can use a 10 ft. extension cable (shown as white cable below) out of my APC surge protector I have into a x3 outlet dongle I have. I've removed the ground prong from the dongle with pliers so it would fit into the groundless white extension cable I have. The reason I want to use such a dongle for my subs is because they remain hot even when on stanby so I'd like to unplug them when not in use and dongle means I only have to unplug the one dongle to unplug both subs at once. Also plugged into my 550VA/330 Watt APC is dennon amp, tivo, epson 1080 UB projector, cable modem, router. Is this too much for this APC?
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post #2 of 43 Old 03-16-2012, 10:08 PM
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That's scary stuff there.

For starters, those single insulated cords (white one) are garbage. Get the appropriate cord, and multi-outlet box/strip.

Good luck

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post #3 of 43 Old 03-16-2012, 11:17 PM
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Those thin extension cords are in the top 10 (#3 I thought) causes of house fires. They overload easy. On top of that your using a splitter adding to the load on the cord and neglecting the ground. I'd suggest you use Google and read about overloading an outlet or extension cord.

If your not short by a large margin purchase an appropriate cord (such as This 3 pack with flat plug.
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post #4 of 43 Old 03-17-2012, 12:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I was definitely wondering about the ground. I thought perhaps my components would be safe since my apc was grounded? Otherwise I should buy the $16 grounded extension cable previous poster linked to and buy a replacement for the dongle I ripped the ground from for my two subs? I've been running my x2 subs off this dongle and white extension cord into my apc for the last month now but if its a bad idea I'm glad to know.
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post #5 of 43 Old 03-17-2012, 12:58 AM
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Your current setup will eventually cause a house fire. Please get a cable that is rated for the load.
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post #6 of 43 Old 03-17-2012, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
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are my margins extreme? Sorry for not knowing this but the white extension cable in question does not feel at all hot when under load and like I .said I unplug it when not in use. I'm in a small apartment and don't play loud music and the only thing this cord is feeding is my two subs. I'm also interested to know if my apc is being overloaded or if using a extension cord that lacks ground is a bad idea, thx!
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post #7 of 43 Old 03-17-2012, 03:46 AM
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With the plethora of wires that a system can create (especially if you are biamping with the extra amps and active crossover) I hated that setup.

I had ONE single outlet upstairs and in this ONE outlet I had around 12 items plugged in. I detested it dearly.

When I started putting my basement together, I made the electronics closet and inside that closet (and whole room) I have four 20 amp circuits.

Inside the closet alone I have about 12 double boxes (4 outlets each) so that gives me 48 individual plugs. Half are switched (I have 4 20 amp switches at entry door) and half are hot. They are spread over the 4 circuits so I can spread the load if necessary.

Each switch at the door covers one circuit. Each circuit (as it travels to the room) goes to a speaker location. So switch 1 controls the front left outlets, switch 2 controls center outlets, switch 3 controls front right outlets. switch 4 covers outlets in closet.

So now I have the wiring to put ALL my electronics into the closet and let switch 4 control all the switched items or, I can put my amps at the speakers and let the other switches control those, taking the load off 4.

Here's an early picture of the closet before I got all the wires pulled.

My wife understandably thinks it looks like a nightmare however, when I asked her if she instead, wanted the wires VISIBLE across the room.....you might know what she said.

btw, I've also got multiple runs of Mogami Neglex, multiple runs of Cat 5 and others so I will (hopefully) have all choices available to me as the room evolves.

Probably should say that.... the nest of wires that I had upstairs is probably what made me go nuts like this. I swore that if I could avoid ANY cords & outlet multipliers, I'd do it at almost any cost.
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post #8 of 43 Old 03-17-2012, 03:48 AM
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I have some outlets high because I might either hang some amps from the top of the closet or, might use a space above the closet for a projector.
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post #9 of 43 Old 03-17-2012, 10:15 AM
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This is what happens when you don't use the appropriate wiring with your HT set up.






Ian

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

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post #10 of 43 Old 03-22-2012, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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My question remains:
can i feed my subs from my APC via an ungrounded extension cord. Is lack of ground a problem? Is surge protector even important for my subs? I live in apartment no lightning prone area.
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post #11 of 43 Old 03-22-2012, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

My question remains:
can i feed my subs from my APC via an ungrounded extension cord. Is lack of ground a problem? Is surge protector even important for my subs? I live in apartment no lightning prone area.

If your sub has a ground then no don't use that cord if no ground on the sub and the cord is not to long and nothing else is sharing it why not.
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post #12 of 43 Old 03-22-2012, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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sorry I can't understand. Can you rephrase please?
My x2 stacked subs power cords don't reach my APC in case that wasn't understood. As you can see in picture in first post both my black sub power cords are plugged into that x3 way dongle. I ripped off the ground prong off the dongle so I could attach dongle to the white groundless extension cord that's going into my APC surge protector.
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post #13 of 43 Old 03-22-2012, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

sorry I can't understand. Can you rephrase please?
My x2 stacked subs power cords don't reach my APC in case that wasn't understood. As you can see in picture in first post both my black sub power cords are plugged into that x3 way dongle. I ripped off the ground prong off the dongle so I could attach dongle to the white groundless extension cord that's going into my APC surge protector.

Do your subs have a grounded plug (3 prong)?
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post #14 of 43 Old 03-22-2012, 04:33 PM
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it seems op wants to keep his fire hazard so maybe we should direct to a website that has good fire extinguishers and recommend good fire insurance.
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post #15 of 43 Old 03-22-2012, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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yes, woofer power plugs have 3 prong /ground.
I thought since my APC was grounded it was ok to feed the subs with a groundless extension cord?
Otherwise I should buy a grounded extension cord?
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post #16 of 43 Old 03-22-2012, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

yes, woofer power plugs have 3 prong /ground.
I thought since my APC was grounded it was ok to feed the subs with a groundless extension cord?
Otherwise I should buy a grounded extension cord?

Even though the APC is grounded, if you're feeding the subs with a groundless extension cord then I don't think you're making use of the APC's ground.

Generally if your sub has a 3-prong socket you should use a grounded cord.

If your apartment has no surge issues then a surge protector is not important.
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post #17 of 43 Old 03-22-2012, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I notice my lights will often dimm for a second when I turn on appliances in my apartment. Also sometimes when turning things on, my APC sometimes beeps audibly for a moment as if it had detected a loss of electricity. Is this considered a surge issue? I wonder if this behavior means I should be plugging into my APC? I'm curious are subs better off plugged with grounded power cable directly into wall, or into APC with ungrounded extension cord? I'ts possible for a surge to travel from my subs into my receiver and damage it right?
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post #18 of 43 Old 03-22-2012, 06:23 PM
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I run one of these in an older version for my sub. http://www.panamax.com/Products/Other/MD2.php
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post #19 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

I notice my lights will often dimm for a second when I turn on appliances in my apartment. Also sometimes when turning things on, my APC sometimes beeps audibly for a moment as if it had detected a loss of electricity. Is this considered a surge issue? I wonder if this behavior means I should be plugging into my APC? I'm curious are subs better off plugged with grounded power cable directly into wall, or into APC with ungrounded extension cord? I'ts possible for a surge to travel from my subs into my receiver and damage it right?

There's a good chance stuff doesn't catch on fire when setup as you have it. There's a better chance stuff doesn't catch on fire if you set it up safely using the grounds as intended. Spend a few bucks so you don't have to worry if your building will still be there when you get home from work.
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post #20 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

My x2 stacked subs power cords don't reach my APC in case that wasn't understood. As you can see in picture in first post both my black sub power cords are plugged into that x3 way dongle. I ripped off the ground prong off the dongle so I could attach dongle to the white groundless extension cord that's going into my APC surge protector.

You haven't listened to a single bit of advice anyone has given you by insisting to connect everything the way you have. What you've done is dangerous and a hazard. Never remove the ground pin from any electrical device/cord that has one.

Extension cords are meant to be used temporarily. Do your subs have removable power cords? If so, go to parts express and order longer power cords for a couple of bucks each. Run these cords directly to your APC. If they don't have removable cords, I suggest plugging them directly into the nearest outlet. The APC isn't doing much anyway.


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post #21 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

I notice my lights will often dimm for a second when I turn on appliances in my apartment. Also sometimes when turning things on, my APC sometimes beeps audibly for a moment as if it had detected a loss of electricity. Is this considered a surge issue? I wonder if this behavior means I should be plugging into my APC? I'm curious are subs better off plugged with grounded power cable directly into wall, or into APC with ungrounded extension cord? I'ts possible for a surge to travel from my subs into my receiver and damage it right?

This is voltage drop, not surge related.

If items on the same circuit dim, then the voltage drop is within that circuit. if items on other circuits dim, then the voltage drop is global, and exists within your mains, and panel-board.

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

I'm curious are subs better off plugged with grounded power cable directly into wall?

Yes, typically, I'd not suggest plugging an amplifier type high current device into a potentially current limiting device.

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post #22 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Voltage drop is global, so exists within mains and panel-board I guess. Yeah my subs cords are modual, However I was able to barely stretch this cheap power strip between my APC and x2 MFW stacked subs power cords as you can see in this picture. Is this ok? The reason I like this is I like to turn off my subs when not in use and they can both be turned off at once easily with the switch on powerstrip. Note the two sub power cables will be the only things ever plugged into this power strip. Bad to plug power strip into APC?
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post #23 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

Voltage drop is global, so exists within mains and panel-board I guess. Yeah my subs cords are modual, However I was able to barely stretch this cheap power strip between my APC and x2 MFW stacked subs power cords as you can see in this picture. Is this ok? The reason I like this is I like to turn off my subs when not in use and they can both be turned off at once easily with the switch on powerstrip. Note the two sub power cables will be the only things ever plugged into this power strip. Bad to plug power strip into APC?

No if you use a cord that uses the ground lug (3 prong ) as you stated your subs were there is a reason to keep this in play as subs that are 2 prong use the neutral leg and are designed that way yours may not.
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post #24 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you aware as shown in pic above that the white power strip has a 3 prong ground going into my APC, as well as the two sub power goin into white power strip also have 3 prong ground?
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post #25 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you aware as shown in pic above that the white power strip has a 3 prong ground going into my APC, as well as the two sub power goin into white power strip also have 3 prong ground?

I guess I misunderstood you when I thought I read you defeated the ground lug bad juju.
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post #26 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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My post 3 posts above with new picture is my new proposed hookup method as an alternative to 1st post on thrrad with original picture. Hoping it looks good? You can click the picture to get zoomed in view. From it you can see the subs plugged into strip and you can see strip plugged into APC
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post #27 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 01:34 PM
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That should work as long as thats only a power strip you should never plug to surge protectors together.
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post #28 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I believe its not actually a surge protector just a power strip. On back of power strip it says Relocatable power tap/ Max load: 15A 125vac 60hz . Hopefully this will be fine. Thanks!!
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post #29 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

Also sometimes when turning things on, my APC sometimes beeps audibly for a moment as if it had detected a loss of electricity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

Bad to plug power strip into APC?

Sounds like you are overloading your APC. Your APC is rated for 330 watts. You have two subwoofer amps, a projector, your Denon AVR, and a host of other devices connected to it. When you turn on all your equipment at the same time they are drawing more current than the batteries can handle. That is the alarm you hear.

In other words, take the surge suppressor off the APC and move the amps to their own circuit.
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post #30 of 43 Old 03-23-2012, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post

Voltage drop is global, so exists within mains and panel-board I guess. Yeah my subs cords are modual, However I was able to barely stretch this cheap power strip between my APC and x2 MFW stacked subs power cords as you can see in this picture. Is this ok? The reason I like this is I like to turn off my subs when not in use and they can both be turned off at once easily with the switch on powerstrip. Note the two sub power cables will be the only things ever plugged into this power strip. Bad to plug power strip into APC?

Why do you insist on using the APC for your subs in addition to your other gear? You state you want to turn them off when not in use, so the APC provides no value to you in that situation. As your subs' cords are moduar/removable, get some longer cords and either plug both into the power strip which should be plugged into its own outlet, or plug each sub into its own outlet.

The previous poster is correct in that you are likely overloading the APC. The beeping is probably when the APC detects a voltage issue when you are powering up all your equipment.


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