Is crossover at 60hz a waist? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
bbruins2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Estevan,Saskatchewan
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have 2 vtf 15h subs being run with a HK AVR 3600 receiver.My main speakers are Boston Acoustic VR3's which I believe are full range.I have my speakers set to small and my main speaker crossover set to 60hz.I am more concerned about 2 channel music than movies.It just seems that the subs are not working hard enough.Does this make sense?

I also posted this on the HSU forum but no reply yet.
bbruins2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 01:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
jjackkrash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 571
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I cross mine over at 90Hz, 80Hz is the recommended starting point. One school of thought is to cross them over as high as you can until you start to get localization, or, alternatively, where you can get the best frequency response if you have measuring equipment.
jjackkrash is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 01:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
morrischestnut60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbruins2 View Post

I have 2 vtf 15h subs being run with a HK AVR 3600 receiver.My main speakers are Boston Acoustic VR3's which I believe are full range.I have my speakers set to small and my main speaker crossover set to 60hz.I am more concerned about 2 channel music than movies.It just seems that the subs are not working hard enough.Does this make sense?

I also posted this on the HSU forum but no reply yet.

I have the same fronts but cross mine at 80. However, my denon 2809 has an advance crossover setup for 2-channel music. I set my VR3's at 60 in that setting. I love my Empire sub but prefer music with 60. Research your receiver to see if you have those separate settings.

Politics is like religion. You never know who you serve.
morrischestnut60 is offline  
post #4 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 02:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3,264
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbruins2 View Post

I have 2 vtf 15h subs being run with a HK AVR 3600 receiver.My main speakers are Boston Acoustic VR3's which I believe are full range.I have my speakers set to small and my main speaker crossover set to 60hz.I am more concerned about 2 channel music than movies.It just seems that the subs are not working hard enough.Does this make sense?

I also posted this on the HSU forum but no reply yet.

Set your speakers to large and sub to on. The double bass thing and see how that sounds.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 02:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Legairre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,802
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 63
My fronts go down to 32Hz and I cross at 60Hz.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

Legairre is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 03:12 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sivadselim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 16,085
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 69
A WASTE of what? Your speakers' potential or your subs' potential? In reality, whether you use a 40Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz, or even a higher crossover, it is still probably a WASTE of neither.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
sivadselim is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
bbruins2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Estevan,Saskatchewan
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

A WASTE of what? Your speakers' potential or your subs' potential? In reality, whether you use a 40Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz, or even a higher crossover, it is still probably a WASTE of neither.

I was thinking I was wasting my subs as I am only sending 60hz and less.
bbruins2 is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
bbruins2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Estevan,Saskatchewan
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for all the informative responses.I will do some more experimenting with some of the info given as I don't think I'm getting quite the oomph from my subs with music.
bbruins2 is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 04:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
mannoiaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
mannoiaj is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 04:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
qguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Got a 2 channel setup and my sub is crossed over at 35 -40 hz and its not a waste. My Fronts are good up to 38 hz.


you could always up the gain to make them work harder
qguy is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 05:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljaycanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,514
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Liked: 577
Quote:


My Fronts are good up to 38 hz.

Down to 38Hz.
eljaycanuck is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 05:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
capecodorthopod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: cape cod
Posts: 1,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbruins2 View Post

Thanks for all the informative responses.I will do some more experimenting with some of the info given as I don't think I'm getting quite the oomph from my subs with music.

Even though your mains are rated well below 80 hz I'd still try 80 or higher. Just because your mains can reproduce 60 hz (and lower) doesn't mean you should cross over down there.

Think of headroom. Your VTF-15's can produce a 60 hz signal at much higher SPL with lower distortion than your mains. I have powered towers and cross them @ 80 or higher.
You'll be surprised how much better your mains sound (at all frequencies) when relieved of the burden of producing lower frequencies with smaller drivers.
Tim
capecodorthopod is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 06:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
Oliver Deplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 755
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Try turning off one of the subs. Does it sound better/louder? If it does, then you have placement/phase issues.

Two would seem to be two too many to me too.
Sarcasm is the sincerest form of flattery.
I bid you a fondue.
Oliver Deplace is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 09:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SbWillie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: War Eagle,Oklahoma
Posts: 3,542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:

SbWillie is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 03-19-2012, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
bbruins2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Estevan,Saskatchewan
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Deplace View Post

Try turning off one of the subs. Does it sound better/louder? If it does, then you have placement/phase issues.

I will try this tomorrow.Thanks
bbruins2 is offline  
post #16 of 26 Old 03-20-2012, 12:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
the Son's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
For music, I personally set my crossover higher when the mains are driven by a receiver. The lower you go, more power is required. The mains will be happier with a higher crossover (it's actually the receiver that will be happier). I'd say you probably aren't wasting anything, but you're more likely to clip the mains at higher volumes with a lower crossover point.
the Son is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 03-20-2012, 08:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 5,746
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 40
I use 80hz, it allows me enough room to tune my subs and remove deep bass from my mains so they are free'd up to do "main" work
kgveteran is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 03-20-2012, 09:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mailiang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springsteen Country
Posts: 6,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Liked: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannoiaj View Post

This is a waist
http://www.ehow.com/how_2307504_measure-waist.html


That ain't no waist!

This is a waist:







Ian

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

mailiang is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 03-20-2012, 10:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,859
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Liked: 302
Here is a 60 Hz waist:

desertdome is online now  
post #20 of 26 Old 03-20-2012, 10:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
wth718's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 242
^^^ lmao!!
wth718 is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 03-20-2012, 01:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
dr_hsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 780
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbruins2 View Post

I have 2 vtf 15h subs being run with a HK AVR 3600 receiver.My main speakers are Boston Acoustic VR3's which I believe are full range.I have my speakers set to small and my main speaker crossover set to 60hz.I am more concerned about 2 channel music than movies.It just seems that the subs are not working hard enough.Does this make sense?

I also posted this on the HSU forum but no reply yet.

Sorry. I was very busy yesterday but I have answered on the Hsu forum. I recommended crossing over at 80 Hz. Even if the main speakers can go lower, running them lower reduces the receiver's amplifeir power available to handle the mids and highs. Especially when one has TWO 15Hs, you have dynamic range to spare, in spades! So, crossover higher. I would not go above 80 Hz just because one would start to localize the subwoofers.
dr_hsu is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 03-20-2012, 02:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
dr_hsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 780
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

A WASTE of what? Your speakers' potential or your subs' potential? In reality, whether you use a 40Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz, or even a higher crossover, it is still probably a WASTE of neither.

Receiver's amplifier power. If you have a powerful subwoofer system like two 15Hs, and just a receiver's amplifier driving the main speakers, you have an unbalanced headroom, much more in the bass than the mids and highs. Crossing over lower would rob the dynamic range available for the mids and highs since the limited amplifier power available from the receiver will be used to handle some bass as well.
dr_hsu is offline  
post #23 of 26 Old 03-20-2012, 02:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Sorry. I was very busy yesterday but I have answered on the Hsu forum. I recommended crossing over at 80 Hz. Even if the main speakers can go lower, running them lower reduces the receiver's amplifeir power available to handle the mids and highs. Especially when one has TWO 15Hs, you have dynamic range to spare, in spades! So, crossover higher. I would not go above 80 Hz just because one would start to localize the subwoofers.

To add to what Dr. Hsu said, by using an 80Hz crossover in the receiver, the power demands on the receiver are reduced by 66%.
TL5 likes this.
spyboy is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 03-20-2012, 04:04 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sivadselim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 16,085
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Receiver's amplifier power. If you have a powerful subwoofer system like two 15Hs, and just a receiver's amplifier driving the main speakers, you have an unbalanced headroom, much more in the bass than the mids and highs. Crossing over lower would rob the dynamic range available for the mids and highs since the limited amplifier power available from the receiver will be used to handle some bass as well.


"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
sivadselim is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 03-20-2012, 04:07 PM
Senior Member
 
speavler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
trust your ears. i've never liked anything much over 60Hz. male vocals seem to get colored. my current speakers are rated to 20-something Hz, but get nowhere near that. with my old von schweikerts i used closer to 40Hz.
speavler is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 03-20-2012, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
bbruins2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Estevan,Saskatchewan
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Sorry. I was very busy yesterday but I have answered on the Hsu forum. I recommended crossing over at 80 Hz. Even if the main speakers can go lower, running them lower reduces the receiver's amplifeir power available to handle the mids and highs. Especially when one has TWO 15Hs, you have dynamic range to spare, in spades! So, crossover higher. I would not go above 80 Hz just because one would start to localize the subwoofers.

You don't need to be sorry.I saw your recommendations in the HSU forum and very much appreciate it.I have reset to 80HZ and made some other adjustments as well.I also noticed I had 1 sub with the crossover set to in.OOPS .I am much happier now.Thanks to you and everyone else who replied.
bbruins2 is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off