JL Audio Fathom F113 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 03-22-2012, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for buying a JL Audio Fathom f113 since I've heard so many good review about this sub. Looks like their prices are going up now. Could someone please kindly advise if it's okay to buy it online?
Is anyone familiar with the "MSS HiFi"? Do I need to worry about the warranty issue?
Where can I find the best price for f113 gloss? Should I get two of them or one would be enough?
Thanks much in advance!!
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post #2 of 44 Old 03-22-2012, 10:35 AM
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there is a huge f113 thread already started. you should be able to find all of your answers there.
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post #3 of 44 Old 03-22-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charming888 View Post

I'm looking for buying a JL Audio Fathom f113 since I've heard so many good review about this sub. Looks like their prices are going up now. Could someone please kindly advise if it's okay to buy it online?
Is anyone familiar with the "MSS HiFi"? Do I need to worry about the warranty issue?
Where can I find the best price for f113 gloss? Should I get two of them or one would be enough?
Thanks much in advance!!

Do not buy anything form that site! They are a notorious rip-off. Try a google search.
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post #4 of 44 Old 03-22-2012, 02:50 PM
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JL F113 seems to make a great product but you get more overall performance out of the

- JTR Captivator (S model for sealed)
- Seaton SubMersive HP

- Funkywaves 18.0

All of these are relatively small footprint considering what they are (may be not as small as the JL) and offer better low extension numbers vs the JL F113 and are 40-50% cheaper than the JL.

If you have the room for something bigger, you could get Even MORE performance for the around the same cost as the JL.
- JTR Captivator (S2 model for sealed)
- Funkywaves 18.3

I believe all of these companies offer custom finishes. I have the SubMersive HP and love it!

I've included the links for each. Just click on the names of each for more info
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post #5 of 44 Old 03-22-2012, 06:58 PM
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post #6 of 44 Old 03-22-2012, 09:55 PM
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The F113 is a great sub!! You are wandering into the ID Sub lair so you are going to get a ton of suggestions (as you have already seen) on what you should buy instead. If the 113 is what you want, GO FOR IT!! Like Mojo said, DO NOT but from MSS Hifi!! You can look at Audiogon.com and generally you will find plenty of F113 options. I do not think JL authorizes any dealer to sell online.
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post #7 of 44 Old 03-23-2012, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

JL F113 seems to make a great product but you get more overall performance out of the

- JTR Captivator (S model for sealed)
- Seaton SubMersive HP

- Funkywaves 18.0

All of these are relatively small footprint considering what they are (may be not as small as the JL) and offer better low extension numbers vs the JL F113 and are 40-50% cheaper than the JL.

If you have the room for something bigger, you could get Even MORE performance for the around the same cost as the JL.
- JTR Captivator (S2 model for sealed)
- Funkywaves 18.3

I believe all of these companies offer custom finishes. I have the SubMersive HP and love it!

I've included the links for each. Just click on the names of each for more info

just a note... and i'm an "id type of guy", all of the speakers in my house are id...

i have a pair of subm hp's... a friend of mine has a pair of jl f113's... the subms do have more extension, however, it's relatively rare that you get a chance to use it... the jl's are amazing subs... yes, they cost a bit more, but that additional cost gets you massive performance in a small package... on "sub demo scenes", i don't sit there thinking "my subm's are better"... and the jl's certainly don't lack when it comes to "musicality"...

and fwiw, the subm DWARFS the jl sizewise...

my "first choice" would be the subm over the jl, but if the op needs/wants the small box* (he didn't say), it's not an unreasonable decision to get the jl's...

* and that small box is downright SEXY looking...

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post #8 of 44 Old 03-23-2012, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

just a note... and i'm an "id type of guy", all of the speakers in my house are id...

i have a pair of subm hp's... a friend of mine has a pair of jl f113's... the subms do have more extension, however, it's relatively rare that you get a chance to use it... the jl's are amazing subs... yes, they cost a bit more, but that additional cost gets you massive performance in a small package... on "sub demo scenes", i don't sit there thinking "my subm's are better"... and the jl's certainly don't lack when it comes to "musicality"...

and fwiw, the subm DWARFS the jl sizewise...

my "first choice" would be the subm over the jl, but if the op needs/wants the small box* (he didn't say), it's not an unreasonable decision to get the jl's...

* and that small box is downright SEXY looking...

I'm glad you posted this because from the perspective of engineering, the JL is a really well executed sub that is sure to impress even diehards that are used to bigger subs. With careful shopping, you can narrow the price gap a lot. it does give up some extension in achieving its relatively compact size. When I first auditioned one with my friend, we sat there in disbelief that the little box could be slamming that hard.

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post #9 of 44 Old 03-23-2012, 08:28 AM
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I too have a subm HP, and I would chose it first as I already did. But if compact space was important to me, the captivator s is a small sub, with better extension than the f113, for much less. If you want the JL, it is a fine sub. But there are 2 brands that consistently outperform and are recommended over the JL, and that's seaton and jtr.
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post #10 of 44 Old 03-23-2012, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker36 View Post

I too have a subm HP, and I would chose it first as I already did. But if compact space was important to me, the captivator s is a small sub, with better extension than the f113, for much less. If you want the JL, it is a fine sub. But there are 2 brands that consistently outperform and are recommended over the JL, and that's seaton and jtr.

The captivator S is a great sub, but the finish level isn't close to the JL. As others have said, if you don't need the size/finish of the JL, there are other options.

The price difference (out the door, not MSRP) between the JL and the Cap S is fairly insignificant, not more than a couple hundred $. Not sure if the Cap S price includes shipping - if it doesn't the price gap is even smaller.
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post #11 of 44 Old 03-23-2012, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

I'm glad you posted this because from the perspective of engineering, the JL is a really well executed sub that is sure to impress even diehards that are used to bigger subs. With careful shopping, you can narrow the price gap a lot. it does give up some extension in achieving its relatively compact size. When I first auditioned one with my friend, we sat there in disbelief that the little box could be slamming that hard.

yea... i think that sometimes "we at avs" can become somewhat blinded by "ultimate specs", and realistically, damn few use those "ultimate specs", and we also forget that there are other purchasing factors involved for many... the jl has something that the subm never will, and that is it's size (or lack thereof)... most people's purchasing decisions (myself included) are based upon more than "what do the absolute numbers say"....

similar to those who jump into many threads and say "diy is the only way to go, it's so much cheaper and gives so much more bang for the buck"... sure, there are situations where that is true... in my case (and in the case of most), diy isn't an option... i have neither the tools nor time to do it (nor patience, it must be said)....

as noted, i would choose the subm, but also as noted, the jl is certainly a reasonable alternative, and if someone went in that direction, it's not indefensible at all... if i had waf issues, or needed a small (and sexy) box, it would be on the top of my list...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

The captivator S is a great sub, but the finish level isn't close to the JL. As others have said, if you don't need the size/finish of the JL, there are other options.

The price difference (out the door, not MSRP) between the JL and the Cap S is fairly insignificant, not more than a couple hundred $. Not sure if the Cap S price includes shipping - if it doesn't the price gap is even smaller.

yea... the price differential really isn't as great as it's made out to be... when i was kicking around the idea of jl's, most guys i called offered a significant discount off of msrp without me even asking...

- chris

 

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post #12 of 44 Old 03-23-2012, 09:59 AM
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No doubt about the JL's appearance, it is one of the best high-WAF subs available. Not only is it small but it's very nice to look at. If one needs both a small footprint and beautiful form it's hard to beat.
If one only needs a small footprint I agree the Cap S would be the way to go for performance per dollar. Jeff should consider a Piano Black or nice veneer for that thing for those that need very high high WAF.
Submersives look and perform extremely well but they definitely aren't small.
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post #13 of 44 Old 03-23-2012, 08:41 PM
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Most, not all, of the subs mentioned are larger [some much larger] and the "look" is not are refined or finished.

If those things are important then JLA is hard to beat.

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post #14 of 44 Old 03-23-2012, 09:37 PM
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I agree that the JL is a potent sub in a small package, I was just trying to make the OP aware he had other choices if he's not limited to size.

As for refined finishes, these look pretty impressive to me:
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=4292198#1

I believe JTR uses the same company to do their custom finishes as Seaton but one may need to call JTR to find out what options are available.

The Funky Wave sub looks beautiful (IMO).
http://www.funkywaves.net/catalog/in...y18_large2.png

I think all of these subs are great choices. A quick search on this forum will show there some threads where folks comparing the JL to the SubMersive. The few that had them both in the same room preferred the SubMersive. There was one person (Warpdrv) different than the (Warpdrive) on this thread that had the F112 (not the F113), the SubMersive HP, and the Funky wave 18.0.

Good luck with whatever you decide, I think you will very happy with any of these subs.
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post #15 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 06:58 AM
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^^^

i don't disagree... i only posted what i did to add a little perspective before this turned into a "why would you spend so much on something that underperforms, etc." thread... we've already got too many of those around here., and they generally degenerate into an, ummm, "less than useful" conversation...

as noted, the subm would be my choice (not surprising, most of us tend to like whatever we own the best )... but if someone dropped a pair of the jl's in my room, i certainly wouldn't complain... they are amazing little beasts...

and the finish is something to behold... i'm generally not a fan of piano black, it shows way too much dust/fingerprints/cat scratches/etc. for me... but damn, they look good... and i'm not lacking for familiarity with nicely finished speakers...

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post #16 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 08:46 AM
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How much did the JL's go up by?

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post #17 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 11:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

Most, not all, of the subs mentioned are larger [some much larger] and the "look" is not are refined or finished.

If those things are important then JLA is hard to beat.

That's true, some of the those subs have absolutely no WAF.
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post #18 of 44 Old 03-24-2012, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

How much did the JL's go up by?

F112 + $300

F113 + $200

I think...

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post #19 of 44 Old 03-25-2012, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks very much for you all with the great information.

According to JL's new US retail price (effective Feb 1, 2012):

f112-satin $3100
f112-gloss $3200
f113-satin $3900
f113-gloss $4000
f212-satin $6200
f212-gloss $6300

Has anyone dealt with Elegant Audio/Video in Ocean View, DE? Is this a good place to have a deal?? I've crossed out MSS HiFi from my list.

Thanks much again for your input.
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post #20 of 44 Old 03-25-2012, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

How much did the JL's go up by?

Dunno but, at CES, JL showed the prototypes of a new and less expensive line of subs. IIRC, they eschewed A.R.O. and developed new drivers and construction.

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post #21 of 44 Old 03-25-2012, 11:51 AM
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just to play devils advocate here, but i would add multiple SVS SB13-plus's onto the list if your looking at JL113's

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post #22 of 44 Old 03-25-2012, 03:23 PM
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F113 are great sub, go for it , it not to big play low and loud and will rock
your house, i have 2 f113 , best sub i own ,
sound good with HT, or stereo.
cheers,

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post #23 of 44 Old 03-26-2012, 09:43 AM
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Regarding MSS Audio - I bought some speakers from MSS Audio (through audiogon) when he still referred to himself as the audio pimp. Aside from the Misogynistic ads he runs with the models, the communication service was very good. The speakers were shipped crated with a shock sensor and he had great after sale support. I did not experience this, but I've heard that he can be a bit brash in emails and such. Overall I was very pleased with MSS's service.
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post #24 of 44 Old 03-26-2012, 09:51 AM
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Just did a bit of research and it does appear many have had issues with MSS. Not sure what is typical for them as they do a lot of transactions. I couldn't have been happier with the service and the price of the speakers I got. I bought the speakers in 08 and have still never seen them as cheap.
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post #25 of 44 Old 03-27-2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Dunno but, at CES, JL showed the prototypes of a new and less expensive line of subs. IIRC, they eschewed A.R.O. and developed new drivers and construction.

Sept/Oct.

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post #26 of 44 Old 03-27-2012, 07:53 AM
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JL's are very, very good subs. But unless size is your primary consideration I think they are outrageously priced for what you get. As many have noted here you can get more sub for a fraction of the price.

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post #27 of 44 Old 03-27-2012, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

JL's are very, very good subs. But unless size is your primary consideration I think they are outrageously priced for what you get. As many have noted here you can get more sub for a fraction of the price.

As others have mentioned, a lot depends on what kind of price you can get on the J L Audio products. I recall seeing a $12,000 Gotham priced at $6,000 by an authorized dealer...

And, the forthcoming E series is much less expensive.
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post #28 of 44 Old 03-27-2012, 09:51 AM
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Even at 6K there are plenty of subs that can keep up with it for far less. It is a beautiful beast though. I'm curious as to what the E Series will have to offer.

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post #29 of 44 Old 03-27-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorden View Post

F113 are great sub, go for it , it not to big play low and loud and will rock
your house, i have 2 f113 , best sub i own ,
sound good with HT, or stereo.
cheers,

Nice subs. BTW this setup right here is the reason why people are having issues with heat damage on their AVRs. A BD player stacked on top, a failed AVR waiting to happen.
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post #30 of 44 Old 03-27-2012, 12:48 PM
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I know this is a home audio thread, but I have JL Audio speakers and amps in my boat and truck and wouldn't go any other route. In the mobile audio realm, the knock on JL is almost always "its too expensive for what you get," or "other gear performs just as well for the same money." Its never, "my JL amp prematurely failed," or "the build quality sucks," or "wow I wish their engineering was better thought out." My impression with JL as a company is that they pay for R&D, have excellent quality control, and you always know you are going to get a quality product, and JL appropriately charges a premium over other brands. So while I think its fair to say you can pay less for similar performance a lot of times, I think its at least questionable to label JL gear as generally "overpriced." If I needed a smaller WAF cube, I'd take a hard look at an F113.
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