Seaton Submersive HP - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I have already heard from owners that the Submersive HP is fantastically musical, as well as brutally powerful.

I'm leaning towards separating my needs/wants by getting a separate home theater system and music system, but the SubM HP's would be used for both systems. For the home theater, I am now leaning towards the JTR Triple 12's or Triple 8's (I'll decide after I talk to Jeff). I know these speakers will certainly be able to play at reference levels and beyond with my future Outlaw 7900. My question may be stupid, but would 2 Submersive HP's be up to the task in a room that's 25 by 14 with 7.5 foot ceilings? Or would I possibly need to look at more SubM HP's for that job?

Also, the Terraform XL that is supposed to have significantly more output below 20Hz, is that sub still just as musical as the SubM HP's?
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post #2 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 11:08 AM
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I had one in a room 20X11X8 and I couldn't even tune it to 75db as I couldn't dial back the gain enough even with my processor's gain all the way down and the gain on the Submersive down low. That wasn't even an HP, so with two HP's I'd say you'd be more then covered.

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post #3 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

I had one in a room 20X11X8 and I couldn't even tune it to 75db as I couldn't dial back the gain enough even with my processor's gain all the way down and the gain on the Submersive down low. That wasn't even an HP, so with two HP's I'd say you'd be more then covered.

NO WAY! Maybe the gain was very sensitive, it was able to bump loudly without the bass backing out or distorting at loud levels?
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post #4 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 12:14 PM
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I run one SubM in a 15' x 50' x 8' room, with an open hallway running to the stairs and the rest of the house. One SubM will run all but the most ardent bass heads out of the listening position running at reference levels depending on the source (i.e. like Transformers, Dark Side of the Moon). I can't see why you would need more than two except to smooth out the FR or if you have some crazy nulls.
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post #5 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post

I run one SubM in a 15' x 50' x 8' room, with an open hallway running to the stairs and the rest of the house. One SubM will run all but the most ardent bass heads out of the listening position running at reference levels depending on the source (i.e. like Transformers, Dark Side of the Moon). I can't see why you would need more than two except to smooth out the FR or if you have some crazy nulls.

Okay, so it sounds like 2 SubM HP's would be sufficient lol. I'm guessing I'd need a dedicated circuit for each SubM HP, no? Or at least one 20 amp circuit for both. How is the output with these things below 20Hz?


I know this isn't related, but I remember seeing a video of somebody demonstrating why using PA subs isn't recommended for home theater because of their limited extension, and he played a 19Hz sine wave in the video. Does anybody know what video I'm talking about, and if so, what subs was he using?
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post #6 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

Okay, so it sounds like 2 SubM HP's would be sufficient lol. I'm guessing I'd need a dedicated circuit for each SubM HP, no? Or at least one 20 amp circuit for both. How is the output with these things below 20Hz?


I know this isn't related, but I remember seeing a video of somebody demonstrating why using PA subs isn't recommended for home theater because of their limited extension, and he played a 19Hz sine wave in the video. Does anybody know what video I'm talking about, and if so, what subs was he using?

Mark told me that (aside from bursts, which you aren't asking about) each SubM will rarely pull more than about 5A so two on a 15A circuit should be fine and you could likely even have some small stuff on it.

You can find various folks who've posted their real-world in-room responses in this thread.
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post #7 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmithers View Post

Mark told me that (aside from bursts, which you aren't asking about) each SubM will rarely pull more than about 5A so two on a 15A circuit should be fine and you could likely even have some small stuff on it.

You can find various folks who've posted their real-world in-room responses in this thread.

Thanks for the link, and the info. Definitely good to know, since the electrician is gonna be coming in about 2 weeks for the theater room. There's gonna be quite a few dedicated lines in that room, 2 being for my future Outlaw 7900 which I can't wait to get.
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post #8 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 03:25 PM
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One of my Submersives is on a 15a line along with the laundry room lights, washing machine, small freezer, and dorm size fridge. I've never tripped a breaker.
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post #9 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

Okay, so it sounds like 2 SubM HP's would be sufficient lol. I'm guessing I'd need a dedicated circuit for each SubM HP, no? Or at least one 20 amp circuit for both. How is the output with these things below 20Hz?


I know this isn't related, but I remember seeing a video of somebody demonstrating why using PA subs isn't recommended for home theater because of their limited extension, and he played a 19Hz sine wave in the video. Does anybody know what video I'm talking about, and if so, what subs was he using?


here is older graph of extension in my room at my MLP (34L , 7.5H and 12.6 W) which opens up to another large area with 2 submersives
not a high resolution graph (only 1/6 smoothing) but gives good idea of possible extension and volume - reference level with ease
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post #10 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the pic! Yup, looks like 2 SubM HP's are on my list lol
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post #11 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 06:47 PM
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just wondering what speakers you are looking at for music? Those JTRs will do a heck of a job on music as well as movies. BTW, I have a HP in a 14x16 room with 7 foot ceiling and it is more than enough. Hits reference levels with no problem. Depending on your particular room characteristics, you should have plenty of bass down to at least the low teens.
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post #12 of 19 Old 03-24-2012, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam-DiVine View Post

just wondering what speakers you are looking at for music? Those JTRs will do a heck of a job on music as well as movies. BTW, I have a HP in a 14x16 room with 7 foot ceiling and it is more than enough. Hits reference levels with no problem. Depending on your particular room characteristics, you should have plenty of bass down to at least the low teens.

Well I'm gonna be using the JTR's as my main system for both movies and music, but also want something else for more of those smooth groove type songs like Jazz, blues and non amplified recordings like classical, acoustic guitar, vocal etc to get all of those subtle, lush nuances of the music in crystal clear accuracy and transparency. Basically, I want to be able to hear B.B Kings diabetes lmao
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post #13 of 19 Old 03-26-2012, 11:28 AM
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Can someone with experience listening (extensively?) to both JTR Caps and SubMs comment on some of the acoustic pros and cons? (Noob question?)

Damn it Jim, I'm a physicist, not an engineer!
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post #14 of 19 Old 03-26-2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheHolodeck View Post

Can someone with experience listening (extensively?) to both JTR Caps and SubMs comment on some of the acoustic pros and cons? (Noob question?)


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21730868
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post #15 of 19 Old 03-26-2012, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

Well I'm gonna be using the JTR's as my main system for both movies and music, but also want something else for more of those smooth groove type songs like Jazz, blues and non amplified recordings like classical, acoustic guitar, vocal etc to get all of those subtle, lush nuances of the music in crystal clear accuracy and transparency. Basically, I want to be able to hear B.B Kings diabetes lmao

Specifically for the music you mentioned, I bet a pair of Dana 640is would get you the "subtle, lush nuances of music" you are looking for. I read these threads:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1341386 (Post 48, pg 2 for the conclusion)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1360077

and read reviews about it's smaller sibling the 630is as well as reviews of it's older predecessor (630) and was pretty enticed by what I read..
"Fantastic detail without being bright or harsh, amazing purity and transparency especially in the lower midrange/upper bass, outstanding imaging and soundstage"
"Over the last couple of months I had the Ascend Sierra-1 NrTs, Swan D2.1SE+Customs and the Dana 640is for the 30 day in home demos.
I'm now down to 1 pair and I'm listening to my new Dana 640is"
"Truly exceptional for classical, jazz, folk, acoustic, and bringing out the utmost detail and musicality in truly good recordings. "

I recently put an order in for the 630is at the audioinsider (I would order the 640is but my budget is lacking since I am making a separate speaker purchase soon) for my dad who primarily listens to classical music. I can't wait to break them in for an extended period of time and enjoy them a bit before I set them up for my dad


(BTW I have a HP SubM- excellent choice... wish I could afford two, although I have to say one easily ROCKS the house and is great with any type of music I throw at it!)
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post #16 of 19 Old 03-27-2012, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

here is older graph of extension in my room at my MLP (34L , 7.5H and 12.6 W) which opens up to another large area with 2 submersives
not a high resolution graph (only 1/6 smoothing) but gives good idea of possible extension and volume - reference level with ease

Very impressive extension. But how come the bass region (100Hz down) is so much louder than 400Hz up?

From 400Hz up it's about 50dB. Your bass region is like double that!
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post #17 of 19 Old 03-27-2012, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jchong View Post


Very impressive extension. But how come the bass region (100Hz down) is so much louder than 400Hz up?

From 400Hz up it's about 50dB. Your bass region is like double that!

My guess is that's the subs only and the signal above 100 hz is the noise floor.
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post #18 of 19 Old 03-27-2012, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

I know this isn't related, but I remember seeing a video of somebody demonstrating why using PA subs isn't recommended for home theater because of their limited extension, and he played a 19Hz sine wave in the video. Does anybody know what video I'm talking about, and if so, what subs was he using?

That was me - but I was definately not talking about the Submersive HP in my warning. A fellow here on AVS, Timmothy91, was promoting the idea of using traditional PA subwoofers for home theater use as the best bargain around. He continued to proclaim that most enthusiasts wouldn't know the difference, despite those with lots of experience to the contrary telling him directly otherwise. Traditional PA subs are ported and tuned to about 35 or 40hz. That means you get effectively no usuable output at or around 15-20hz. This range of say 15hz to 20hz is where the most tactile 'feel' happens - and where the forced grins occurr in movie watching.

The Seaton Submersive HP is a completely different design than traditional PA subs. There would be absolutely no problem recreating that video in my room with pair of Submersive HP subwoofers. They are very capable and enjoyable subwoofers. For the record - I have a pair of JTR Captivator Pros and absolutely love them - they remain my favorite overall subwoofer. We've hosted a couple subwoofer meets in my same room. The links are in my signature. You can read many people's impressions of the Submersive HP in my very room that that 19hz video was recorded in.


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post #19 of 19 Old 03-27-2012, 06:35 AM
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I can concur that the HP is a very capable sub. Mine is in a very small, enclosed room and I am flat probably into the single digits.

I am very satisfied with how it preforms in my room. It's easy to see and feel that I am getting low bass with no problems. I should also add that I have had this sub since early 2007 and have really enjoyed it ever since. For music and movies it is a very good performer IMHO.
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