SVS Vs. HSU: who gives the best mid-bass punch? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

What does it feel like when a grenade or explosion goes off? I'm just trying to find what gives you that "punch" in real-life that would be missing in HT.

Drivers produce acoustic energy. Once someone finds out how to make the sound wave travel faster than a sound wave then we may be able to experience the shock wave haha.

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post #32 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 12:41 PM
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Just on the fence about buying this MBM-12. Trying to get some opinions on how much it'll really add to the experience

Depends; what do you have now in terms of speakers/subwoofer?
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post #33 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

That depends on how hard he hits you. A cracked rib will be more expensive than any of the subs mentioned here. It's still worth it though, the buddy-chest-punch is one of the immersive home theater experiences I've yet experienced. The tactile feel is spectacular!

Haha, nice one..
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post #34 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

It's still worth it though, the buddy-chest-punch is one of the immersive home theater experiences I've yet experienced. The tactile feel is spectacular!

Any issues with timing that you've experienced? One wonders if it could translate well into the more delicate musical realm, or if it's really just better suited for HT explosions
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post #35 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

Depends; what do you have now in terms of speakers/subwoofer?



Everything sounds fantastic except for it missing that hard "punch in the chest", I get only a "gentle punch in the chest"
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post #36 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

Right now I have Rti A5 / Rti a6 (Center) / Rti A1 as heights and Fxi A4 as surrounds. LFM-1 Plus for my subwoofer in a 2300 cu ft room.

Everything sounds fantastic except for it missing that hard "punch in the chest", I get only a "gentle punch in the chest"

Is your LFM-1 nearfield or farfield?

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post #37 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I was at the gun range last week and all I can say is, altough I'm not an acoustic specialist, mid bass or not, my chest felt a punch coming from the shots of my friend shooting his 30-06.

I agree that bass is exagerated in almost every movie, but so is the storyline, stunts, makeup, sets, decors, etc. Exagerated bass is ear candy and is a way of entrainement like it is to watch Megan Fox under the hood of Bumble Bee

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post #38 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post

Is your LFM-1 nearfield or farfield?

It's right next to the sofa. I just got the LFM and have been thinking about trying a different placement, I'm feeling more of the couch rumbling instead of the actual bass it seems.. have a Subdude on the way as well to isolate it from the hardwood floor.
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post #39 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post

I was at the gun range last week and all I can say is, altough I'm not an acoustic specialist, mid bass or not, my chest felt a punch coming from the shots of my friend shooting his 30-06.

I'd guess it's more to do with raw SPL; I think you would be talking in the 170dB or so range with something like a .30-06. Of course, the M1 Garand I referenced earlier was also chambered for .30-06, so I can verify that it can rattle you one way or another.
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post #40 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

Right now I have Rti A5 / Rti a6 (Center) / Rti A1 as heights and Fxi A4 as surrounds. LFM-1 Plus for my subwoofer in a 2300 cu ft room.

Everything sounds fantastic except for it missing that hard "punch in the chest", I get only a "gentle punch in the chest"

Your system seems reasonably balanced and without significant gaps, so IMO it shouldn't need too much help from an MBM, although the MBM probably could deliver more output over its operating range and free up a little headroom for your sub. Of course, for the money spent, you could also look at an Epik Empire and sell the LFM-1.
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post #41 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post


What does it feel like when a grenade or explosion goes off? I'm just trying to find what gives you that "punch" in real-life that would be missing in HT.

It doesn't feel good.

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #42 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

It doesn't feel good.

Tight, punchy bass?

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post #43 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 04:07 PM
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What is the crossover to your LFM-1 set to?

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post #44 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post


Your system seems reasonably balanced and without significant gaps, so IMO it shouldn't need too much help from an MBM, although the MBM probably could deliver more output over its operating range and free up a little headroom for your sub. Of course, for the money spent, you could also look at an Epik Empire and sell the LFM-1.

I agree. You may be able to get what you want, or at least more punch than you're getting now, with your current equipment.
Do you have any way of measuring the frequency response at your listening position like REW, Omnimic, XTZ, etc? Some simple changes like the sub distance setting in your AVR, position of your mains or main listening location may give a dramatic improvement. So far I think nearfield sub placement is a good start but you need to "see" graphically what's going on to accomplish the above.
Tim
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post #45 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post


Tight, punchy bass?

An explosion going off next to you lol

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #46 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

An explosion going off next to you lol

No thanks, I'll leave the boom boom boom to the home theater crowd, who must have low standards because they aim for low frequencies that nobody hears anyway. Tight, punchy bass.


BTW tight, punchy bass.

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post #47 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post


No thanks, I'll leave the boom boom boom to the home theater crowd, who must have low standards because they aim for low frequencies that nobody hears anyway. Tight, punchy bass.

BTW tight, punchy bass.

Huh lol

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #48 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

I agree. You may be able to get what you want, or at least more punch than you're getting now, with your current equipment.
Do you have any way of measuring the frequency response at your listening position like REW, Omnimic, XTZ, etc? Some simple changes like the sub distance setting in your AVR, position of your mains or main listening location may give a dramatic improvement. So far I think nearfield sub placement is a good start but you need to "see" graphically what's going on to accomplish the above.
Tim

Was planning on doing something like REW to see what is happening in the room but I haven't got around to that yet. The position of the sofa falls just about in the center of the room which I heard isn't anywhere near ideal but it's the best spot for me to have it, thats why I was thinking of using the MBM since my listening position is pretty much fixed in the room and can't be adjusted at all. My sub placement can be moved quite a bit though.

Subwoofer Xover is set to bypass and on the "1" mark, all speakers are at 80hz and the LFE is subwoofer / 120hz. I use Audyssey MultiEQXT to calibrate everything and it usually sets the subwoofer around the -1.0 db mark.
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post #49 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the good old sub crawl test would be a good start. LP in the middle is usually not ideal, but sometimes can be good. Give it a try!

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post #50 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 08:39 PM
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That mid-bass punch has little to do with deep bass, but probably lies somewhere between 50 to 150hz. That's the typical kick-drum range. There are various problems that can lead to less-than-satisfying bass punch.

One possible problem is an excess of deep bass room gain. This causes the deeper bass to overwhelm the punch bass. That may shake the couch, but doesn't give much punch.

Another possible problem is a poor frequency response in the crossover area. For most folks this takes place around 80hz which just happens to sit in the middle of the punch range. Check phase and distance settings as possible causes.

Weak bass performance of the main speakers is another possible problem. Since the main speakers are usually called upon to deliver the upper part of the bass punch, if they are not up to the task, performance here will suffer. Small bookshelf speakers, for example, are most likley not up to delivering their portion of the bass punch spectrum with sufficient power to be realistic.

As others here have suggested, try to measure the frequency response to visualize where the problem lies. As any physician will tell you, you should diagnose the problem before you treat the problem.

In some cases, something like an MBM-12 or perhaps some other small supplimentary sub to enhance the range between 50 and 150hz might be a solution, but again try to understand where the problem comes from before trying to fix it.
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post #51 of 51 Old 03-28-2012, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

That mid-bass punch has little to do with deep bass, but probably lies somewhere between 50 to 150hz. That's the typical kick-drum range. There are various problems that can lead to less-than-satisfying bass punch.

One possible problem is an excess of deep bass room gain. This causes the deeper bass to overwhelm the punch bass. That may shake the couch, but doesn't give much punch.

Another possible problem is a poor frequency response in the crossover area. For most folks this takes place around 80hz which just happens to sit in the middle of the punch range. Check phase and distance settings as possible causes.

Weak bass performance of the main speakers is another possible problem. Since the main speakers are usually called upon to deliver the upper part of the bass punch, if they are not up to the task, performance here will suffer. Small bookshelf speakers, for example, are most likley not up to delivering their portion of the bass punch spectrum with sufficient power to be realistic.

As others here have suggested, try to measure the frequency response to visualize where the problem lies. As any physician will tell you, you should diagnose the problem before you treat the problem.

In some cases, something like an MBM-12 or perhaps some other small supplimentary sub to enhance the range between 50 and 150hz might be a solution, but again try to understand where the problem comes from before trying to fix it.

Well said.

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