SVS Vs. HSU: who gives the best mid-bass punch? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I read a lot of guys saying that the SVS subs, like the PB13u, are among the best in reproducing high output of ULF and probably a cut above HSU (but more expensive).

But what about the mid-bass chest pounding bass? I know the VTF-15H is very good at it! Are SVS weaker on the mid-bass, equal or better?


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post #2 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 07:44 AM
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I would not say one is better than the other for all their subs it would be on a model versus model for the application you really can't go wrong with either company.
I feel HSU at its price point gives you a little more for your dollar right now.
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post #3 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I would not say one is better than the other for all their subs it would be on a model versus model for the application you really can't go wrong with either company.
I feel HSU at its price point gives you a little more for your dollar right now.

Let say flagship vs flagship. In other words: 15H vs PB13U


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post #4 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post

Let say flagship vs flagship. In other words: 15H vs PB13U

I would say the edge goes to SVS on that one and it should its almost double the price but the 13 is a beast.
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post #5 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post

Let say flagship vs flagship. In other words: 15H vs PB13U

The 13 Ultra would be superior to a single Hsu 15H. But you can get two VTF15H subs in that price range, and things get a little interesting then On paper two 15H subs should have more midbass, and have almost equal extension. The benefit would be having two subs to smooth out room response.

But you should also look into the JTR Captivator and Seaton Submerssive if you are considering a PB13 Ultra. Will cost you a little more money, but from folks that have have heard and owned these subs, the Seaton and JTR are in a different league.
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post #6 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

The 13 Ultra would be superior to a single Hsu 15H. But you can get two VTF15H subs in that price range, and things get a little interesting then On paper two 15H subs should have more midbass, and have almost equal extension. The benefit would be having two subs to smooth out room response.

But you should also look into the JTR Captivator and Seaton Submerssive if you are considering a PB13 Ultra. Will cost you a little more money, but from folks that have have heard and owned these subs, the Seaton and JTR are in a different league.

I agree .
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post #7 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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what about the 15H vs the PB12+?


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post #8 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 08:06 AM
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The room plays a big part in that "midbass kick" Placement and room treatments help greatly.
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post #9 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

The room plays a big part in that "midbass kick" Placement and room treatments help greatly.

PB12+ would be superior to the 15H for both output and extension.

As it should, considering the price difference

I really debated between the PB12+ and the 15H. It was a tough choice and in the end the pocketbook won and I ordered the 15H with the expectation of ordering a second one down the road.
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post #10 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

The room plays a big part in that "midbass kick" Placement and room treatments help greatly.

This is very true.
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post #11 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 08:17 AM
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I can not commit on the PB12+ as I have not had a chance to demo one.
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post #12 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 08:35 AM
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Direct comparisons are a little tricky because there are several Hsu subs (such as the VTF-15H, as you can tell, very popular around here) that have no SVSound equivalent, in terms of price, and vice versa.

You can fairly compare the ULS-15 to the SB13-Ultra.
You can fairly compare the VTF3-MK4 to the PB12-NSD.

Every other comparison comes with caveats. SVSound's top-end ported subs are in a different class compared to Hsu's top-end ported subs. So you'll hear "beats it hands-down!" alongside "well it should for X dollars more!"

As I understand it, both manufacturers' subs produce very linear response (each octave is played at about the same loudness as every other octave). For maximum upper- and mid-bass impact, you may want to check out Epik's subwoofers, especially the Empire, which lots of experienced users regard very highly, especially for music.

If you were to ask me, I'd say that the "mid-bass punch" that people sometimes talk about is probably the result of a relatively non-uniform response; otherwise, why would the mid-bass be more prominent than the other frequencies?

Maybe some sealed-sub aficionados can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong about that.

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post #13 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 09:40 AM
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^^
+1
I'll just add that there are some subs that drop off above 80 or so which can leave one wanting for midbass since the LFE channel goes up to 120 (I'm not talking about bass redirected from satellites).
Sometimes room geometry and seating placement create a null in the midbass frequencies that no sub could overcome. Another reason one may sense a lack of midbass could be satellites not able to produce 100-250 hz with authority.
Tim
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post #14 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 09:43 AM
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Large mains will help with the midbass as well. Its a combo, sub, room, mains, anything lacking in either one of those and it might be disappointing.

Multiple subs, corner bass traps, and good large mains.
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post #15 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 10:26 AM
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If you like mid-bass punch, I would take a close look at the Hsu MBM-12. For mid-bass, that has to be the highest price/performance ratio out there. The Epik Empire has measured fantastically for mid-bass too.

Something said above should be emphasized, mid-bass punch is usually the result of a exaggerated hump or peak at 60 or 70 hz, it does not usually come from a flat FR.
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post #16 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

If you like mid-bass punch, I would take a close look at the Hsu MBM-12. For mid-bass, that has to be the highest price/performance ratio out there. The Epik Empire has measured fantastically for mid-bass too.

Something said above should be emphasized, mid-bass punch is usually the result of a exaggerated hump or peak at 60 or 70 hz, it does not usually come from a flat FR.

But if we are watching an action movie shouldn't the gunshots "punch" you in the chest from their mid-bass like I think they do in real life? Is that something that shouldn't happen with a flat FR or is a hump like that something which reflects more accurately to what we would should "feel" from our HT?

I've been considering an MBM-12 myself to fill in that "midbass punch"
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post #17 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bb1111 View Post

but if we are watching an action movie shouldn't the gunshots "punch" you in the chest... Like they do in real life?


omg no!

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post #18 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

But if we are watching an action movie shouldn't the gunshots "punch" you in the chest from their mid-bass like they do in real life?

I've shot enough firearms ranging from lowly 22s to 12 gauge shotguns, and I can't recall any of them giving me a punch me in the chest feel... Closest I've heard was an M1 Garand in an indoor range. Some of the heavier ones can certainly kick you in the shoulder if you're not holding em right though.
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post #19 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 10:55 AM
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I've shot enough firearms ranging from lowly 22s to 12 gauge shotguns, and I can't recall any of them giving me a punch me in the chest feel... Closest I've come is an M1 Garand in an indoor range. Some of the heavier ones can certainly kick you in the shoulder if you're not holding em right though.

I know how you feel

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #20 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

I've shot enough firearms ranging from lowly 22s to 12 gauge shotguns, and I can't recall any of them giving me a punch me in the chest feel... Closest I've heard was an M1 Garand in an indoor range. Some of the heavier ones can certainly kick you in the shoulder if you're not holding em right though.


What does it feel like when a grenade or explosion goes off? I'm just trying to find what gives you that "punch" in real-life that would be missing in HT.
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post #21 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

I'm starting to not see the point of "mid-bass punch" then...

There are other things like explosions and close miked train wrecks that give you that tactical feel but gun fire realistically will not unless its overly synthesized and I left out earthquakes they have mid to ultra low tactical feel.
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post #22 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

I'm starting to not see the point of "mid-bass punch" then...

It's cool if/when you can get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

There are other things like explosions and close miked train wrecks that give you that tactical feel ...

A school of piranha swimming by also provides a suprising amount of tactile sensation. I never imagined there'd be so much LFE under water, but it was in a movie, so it must be true.


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post #23 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

It's cool if/when you can get it.


A school of piranha swimming by also provides a suprising amount of tactile sensation. I never imagined there'd be so much LFE under water, but it was in a movie, so it must be true.

I never knew space would have so much LFE either, but thanks to Star Trek and Star Wars, my mind has been opened.
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post #24 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 11:45 AM
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I just have my buddy punch me in the chest during a movie explosion.


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post #25 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

What does it feel like when a grenade or explosion goes off?

Can't say that I've gone out of my way to find out

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

I'm just trying to find what gives you that "punch" in real-life that would be missing in HT.

A kickdrum at 1 meter?
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post #26 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 11:55 AM
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I just have my buddy punch me in the chest during a movie explosion.

That would be cheaper.
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post #27 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

But if we are watching an action movie shouldn't the gunshots "punch" you in the chest from their mid-bass like I think they do in real life? Is that something that shouldn't happen with a flat FR or is a hump like that something which reflects more accurately to what we would should "feel" from our HT?

I've been considering an MBM-12 myself to fill in that "midbass punch"

Firearms discharge in real life is a high frequency burst, there is not much bass there. In movies and games, they are just mixed to sound like they have bass. By the way, you would not want to have your home theater playback firearms discharge at realistic levels in realistic frequencies, that would damage your hearing.

Having a system with a perfectly flat frequency response is still not going to sound 'real', you have to have the dynamic response and low-distortion output capability to back it up, and you also have to have recordings that are mixed and mastered realistically. I would go after what sounds 'good', and that isn't necessarily is going to be what is accurate.
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post #28 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

What does it feel like when a grenade or explosion goes off? I'm just trying to find what gives you that "punch" in real-life that would be missing in HT.

I'm sure it would be a 'once in a lifetime' experience.
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post #29 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

That would be cheaper.

That depends on how hard he hits you. A cracked rib will be more expensive than any of the subs mentioned here. It's still worth it though, the buddy-chest-punch is one of the immersive home theater experiences I've yet experienced. The tactile feel is spectacular!
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post #30 of 51 Old 03-27-2012, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

Can't say that I've gone out of my way to find out



A kickdrum at 1 meter?




Just on the fence about buying this MBM-12. Trying to get some opinions on how much it'll really add to the experience
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