Opinions on sealed SVS versus Epik for transient response, musicality, etc. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 63 Old 03-29-2012, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Going for dual SVS 12" sealed NSD (can't remember exact model number) versus dual Epik Legends versus dual Epik Empires.

Lots to weigh but I'm particularly interested in people's opinion vis-a-vis 'musicality.'. I want fast tight bass. Output is important and favors Epik for the price point but musicality is my #1 deciding factor.

If they're almost equivalent I'm going with Epik (though I do like the WAF of the SVS).

Thanks.
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post #2 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry to bump. No opinions? Buying today.
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post #3 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole05 View Post

Sorry to bump. No opinions? Buying today.

What size is your room?
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post #4 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 07:14 AM
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The Empires will have it in output and from various posters they seem to like how it handles music maybe you could find someone locally that will demo it for you there is a thread started for that.
It might help if you list the size of your room and rooms open to it as 2 NSD's most of the time will get the job done.
There are compromises for extreme output and ported usually rules in that department and when done right can still handle music to the point in blind tests people can't pick them out have you read the shootout threads.
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post #5 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 07:18 AM
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How large and open/closed is your listening space?
If you can swing dual Empires then that's what I'd recommend. They equal or exceed the JL Audio f113's performance regarding output and distortion at almost every data point to from 20-125 hz on CEA2010 testing done by Josh Ricci at Audioholics. Dual Legends would still outperform dual SB12-NSD's in output/headroom.

I haven't heard the sealed NSD. If your listening habits are loud or your space is large and/or open then you'll need the headroom the Epiks afford. If the above is not the case and WAF is important then the NSD's in piano black may suit you better.

The Epik's dual opposed design provides a huge advantage in cone area over the single driver SVS.

Both companies have excellent customer support although SVS sports the ID world's fastest response time and are likely a little more reliable than than Epik. That said I've never seen Epik fail to make any issue right for a customer.
Good luck.
Tim
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post #6 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry...posted before so I've already gotten the sense for the output I need.

Basically, for HT I need massive output and two Epik Empires would be a minimum. I have an open 1st floor with at least 7K cubic feet and more considering that there are no actual doors on the whole first floor. Luckily, I am not worried about pressurizing this space as much as most typical people on these forums. I just don't do much HT but can see myself becoming a true audiophile quite quickly.

So, I asked the specific musicality question because that is what I care about first and foremost. I am concerned, if this makes any sense, that the empires are almost too inexpensive! They are massively heavier than the sealed SVS and put out much much more SPL.

But I really want a sub for music that can produce mid 100 dBs for typical Hz ranges seen in music. I want JL Fathom type quality in terms of a sub for high end music.

If the Epiks have similar transient response, tightness, etc to the SVS sealed, then no brainer. Two empires coming up.

But something about that nice small SVS package appeals to me aesthetically and if the music quality is superior I'll trade output in a second. Maybe there is no one here who can directly address this issue, but I thought I'd make a last ditch effort before closing my eyes and buying.

Rhythmik I know is praised for SQ but I really want the evenness of two subs and I think I just don't want to pony up for two of their sealed 15s. Same for the sealed 15 HSUs.

Thanks.
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post #7 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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BTW, thanks capecodorthopod, you were already answering while I was typing. Interesting you mentioned the Fathom...just what I was looking for.
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post #8 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 08:21 AM
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How would 2 Hsu VTF-15H's match up to the other subs listed.... Just wondering cuz they have 3 tuning methods, 2 ports open, 1 port plugged, and sealed. Could this be something the OP would be interested in?

Shawn
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post #9 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

How would 2 Hsu VTF-15H's match up to the other subs listed.... Just wondering cuz they have 3 tuning methods, 2 ports open, 1 port plugged, and sealed. Could this be something the OP would be interested in?

They would exceed the Empires in deep bass output for HT but wouldn't come that close for midbass slam for music. The ported Hsu, Rythmik and SVS offerings have excellent SQ but it seems the OP strongly prefers sealed.
Tim
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post #10 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 08:29 AM
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Ok.... But what about running that sub sealed? Is it still exceeded by the Empires. I'm just asking as I never heard one.

Shawn
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post #11 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Sealed = mostly for WAF. Nothing against ported otherwise and love the HSU unit.

2 empires is even worrying me for aesthetics....that's the reason I'm limiting to sealed.
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post #12 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 08:31 AM
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IMO the biggest WAF perfect sub is the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus or EX..... But those won't be what you are asking for in terms of musicality.

Shawn
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post #13 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 08:43 AM
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This is pretty straightforward, just get the dual Empires.
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post #14 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

This is pretty straightforward, just get the dual Empires.

+1, it seems like people advocate their own beloved sub no matter how inappropriate it is in a given application

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #15 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Ok.... But what about running that sub sealed? Is it still exceeded by the Empires. I'm just asking as I never heard one.

The VTF-15H in SEALED mode would lose it's advantage over the Empire in deep bass output and still trail in the midbass region. The OP's requirements are closely aligned with the Empire's strengths.
Tim
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post #16 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 10:09 AM
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What's your maximum budget? If you want almost the same high output that the Empire has in the mid-bass range, but with significant output down low for HT, if you can afford it, look at the Rythmik FV15HP. See Josh Ricci's data bass site for testing data on both the Empire and the FV15HP. Given the size of your room, this could be a very good choice.

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post #17 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

What's your maximum budget? If you want almost the same high output that the Empire has in the mid-bass range, but with significant output down low for HT, if you can afford it, look at the Rythmik FV15HP. See Josh Ricci's data bass site for testing data on both the Empire and the FV15HP. Given the size of your room, this could be a very good choice.

The OP is talking about buying dual Empires. IMHO dual Empires is a better choice than one Rythmik FV15HP
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post #18 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post


The OP is talking about buying dual Empires. IMHO dual Empires is a better choice than one Rythmik FV15HP

I wasn't thinking just one

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post #19 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


I wasn't thinking just one

Dual Empires seemed a stretch for his budget let alone dual FV15HP's. Don't get me wrong, the FV15HP is an awesome sub for the $$, but a piano black one is the same cost as Dual Empires.
Tim
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post #20 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 12:24 PM
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I agree with dual Empires. Respectable deep bass extension, plenty of mid/upper bass punch similar to pro audio drivers, yet tight and controlled overall for music. Seems like exactly what the OP is looking for.
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post #21 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Two empires on the way. Thanks for input, guys.
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post #22 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Also hard not to like a company when you call twice, once get the owner directly and he spends 30 minutes after closing time talking to you, the next time leave a VM and the owner calls you back in an hour.

Good customer service.

I'm coming from a 50 watt 100$ 8 inch single sub so I have a feeling I'm going to be impressed.
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post #23 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 04:41 PM
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Just got mine today. Love it so far and yes, I had the exact same experience with Chad and customer service.
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post #24 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole05 View Post

Also hard not to like a company when you call twice, once get the owner directly and he spends 30 minutes after closing time talking to you, the next time leave a VM and the owner calls you back in an hour.

Good customer service.

I'm coming from a 50 watt 100$ 8 inch single sub so I have a feeling I'm going to be impressed.

I think you will be extremely happy.
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post #25 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole05 View Post

Also hard not to like a company when you call twice, once get the owner directly and he spends 30 minutes after closing time talking to you, the next time leave a VM and the owner calls you back in an hour.

Good customer service.

I'm coming from a 50 watt 100$ 8 inch single sub so I have a feeling I'm going to be impressed.

Coming from that sub you're not gonna be able to wipe the grin off your face for quite a while. Congrats.
Tim
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post #26 of 63 Old 03-30-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole05 View Post

Also hard not to like a company when you call twice, once get the owner directly and he spends 30 minutes after closing time talking to you, the next time leave a VM and the owner calls you back in an hour.

Good customer service.

I'm coming from a 50 watt 100$ 8 inch single sub so I have a feeling I'm going to be impressed.

Congrats, Chad is a nice guy. You are going to be in subwoofer bliss.
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post #27 of 63 Old 04-03-2012, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Epiks arrived today. Talk about fast shipping. And talk about, uh, huge boxes (very well packed).

I am a bit concerned with the initial reaction they received from other members of my close immediate family. "No way those things are staying in this house" is I think the direct quote. Hopefully, this too shall pass as these suckers are expensive to ship around.
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post #28 of 63 Old 04-03-2012, 07:46 PM
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I just got dual empires last week and they absolutely blow away my CHT 18.1 which was a beast all by itself. They honestly make my floor bounce in the cannon scene from the incredible hulk. If you wanna see how much punch these things have, watch Max Payne. Its an experience.
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post #29 of 63 Old 04-03-2012, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole05 View Post

I am a bit concerned with the initial reaction they received from other members of my close immediate family. "No way those things are staying in this house" is I think the direct quote.

For their premier use, pick one or two of their favorite movies from the 4 to 5 star listings here: The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts. Maybe you'll have a convert after that.

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post #30 of 63 Old 04-04-2012, 06:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole05 View Post

Going for dual SVS 12" sealed NSD (can't remember exact model number) versus dual Epik Legends versus dual Epik Empires.

Lots to weigh but I'm particularly interested in people's opinion vis-a-vis 'musicality.'. I want fast tight bass. Output is important and favors Epik for the price point but musicality is my #1 deciding factor.

If they're almost equivalent I'm going with Epik (though I do like the WAF of the SVS).

Thanks.

What type of music do you listen to? You should have said if WAF was an issue.
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