SubMersive HP vs. Captivator S - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 61 Old 04-09-2012, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ez-v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi All,

In the market for a subwoofer and this thread was definitely an interesting read! I know the common response I may get is that once you're in this class of subwoofer there is no "loser" so to speak, but would be curious as to, subjectively, what are the differences in the sound of the SubMersive HP vs. the Captivator S and, were I to get just one, what are some criteria that I should consider that would help me decide which would be best for my situation.

Room is a living room, so while I don't need the sub to be furniture quality (I do own Vandersteen 3A Sigs as my mains, so obviously black boxes aren't THAT big a deal), it can't be obstrusive. That is where the Cap S, being the smaller sub, may be more attractive to me. Space is ~12 x 20 but opens up into the kitchen and dining room in the back and hallway/stairway foyer on the right side, so it's a decently large, non-sealed space.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!
ez-v is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 61 Old 04-09-2012, 10:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
Crabalocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 37
My SubMersive, espresso, looks really nice......big but not gross looking.

I think if both these subs are on your short list, nice choice and guess what.......you can't go wrong. If the Cap S sounds anything like my SubM.......you'll absolutely love it!!!

I will not buy another speaker if it's not built by JTR or Seaton! my next purchase will be either triple 12's or 8's.

Good luck and you will enjoy.........however you decide.
Crabalocker is online now  
post #3 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 05:06 AM
Member
 
beetlesnack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Unless you can try them both out, preferably in your room, you should probably decide based on price and looks.
beetlesnack is offline  
post #4 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 05:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,429
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 558
I heard them both in the blind GTG and slightly preferred the Submersive. BUT for some reason the Cap Sealed had a large dip in the freq response (can't remeber what freq though) after Audyssey was run so that could explain any preference.

Intead of throwing a hissy fit saying it wasn't fair etc. Jeff just said go with it and never mentioned it as far as I know.
carp is online now  
post #5 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 07:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bhazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 2,413
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 36
The only deciding factor was price for me. They are too close in performance to really decide a winner. The general consensus is that the Cap S is slightly better for movies, and the SubM slightly better for music.

I was torn between getting both as well, but Seaton was running a shipping and veneer special at the time I got mine. If Mark wasn't running that special and I had been able to order a month earlier, I would have went with the Cap S and its intro price.

Oh, and I love my SubM. Its not going anywhere for a long time.
bhazard is offline  
post #6 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ez-v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the feedback! I figured it would basically come down to personal preference and again, when you're looking at what seems to be the cream of the crop, it really does come down to nuances. Guess it depends on availability and pricing when it comes time for me to pull the trigger. Too bad I missed out on the Seaton Anniversary Sale and the JTR Cap S intro pricing
ez-v is offline  
post #7 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 10:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
capecodorthopod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: cape cod
Posts: 1,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I agree with the above. Cap S is a bit smaller, Submersive HP comes in beautiful veneers. Both are so good you gotta go DIY to get better.
Tim
capecodorthopod is offline  
post #8 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 10:15 AM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by ez-v View Post

.......

Too bad I missed out on the Seaton Anniversary Sale and the JTR Cap S intro pricing

Long after you forget about initial outlay, you'll still be appreciating the quality.



Good luck

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #9 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 10:46 AM
Senior Member
 
carlm9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have an S2 on order but a friend of mine has his S2 already. He sold his dual HP's to try out the JTR gear and loves it. I have also owned dual HP's so I can give you a comparison as soon as mine comes in. I don't think you can go wrong with either. I prefer the Captivator myself. I currently have the powered version with the 4000W amp. Can't wait to see how both Caps interact with each other.
carlm9 is offline  
post #10 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ez-v's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlm9 View Post

I have an S2 on order but a friend of mine has his S2 already. He sold his dual HP's to try out the JTR gear and loves it. I have also owned dual HP's so I can give you a comparison as soon as mine comes in. I don't think you can go wrong with either. I prefer the Captivator myself. I currently have the powered version with the 4000W amp. Can't wait to see how both Caps interact with each other.

carlm9,

Definitely provide an update on how you like the S2 vs the HP's as I'm sure I'm not the only one making this debate. Want to figure out room treatments and other auxillary stuff before I pull the trigger on the sub so any experiences you can share might help steer my decision.

Victor
ez-v is offline  
post #11 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 01:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,429
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlm9 View Post

I have an S2 on order but a friend of mine has his S2 already. He sold his dual HP's to try out the JTR gear and loves it. I have also owned dual HP's so I can give you a comparison as soon as mine comes in. I don't think you can go wrong with either. I prefer the Captivator myself. I currently have the powered version with the 4000W amp. Can't wait to see how both Caps interact with each other.

Jason, I thought you were going with another powered Cap?

Either way, looking forward to hearing your impressions. This just goes to show how much preference rules since we have both had Caps and Submersives and have opposite opinions.

When are you supposed to get the S2?
carp is online now  
post #12 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 04:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
capecodorthopod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: cape cod
Posts: 1,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
carlm9, are you planning to integrate a ported 4kW Cap and a Cap S2 into the same system. If so how do you plan to do it?
Tim
capecodorthopod is offline  
post #13 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 04:42 PM
Senior Member
 
ehoeft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I believe in the next week or two most of the orders for the cap s and S2 will be sent out from what I read. So i hope reviews will come rolling in than, more than they have I'm interested also in hearing more feedback on the S2 as I'm considering possibly 2 of them..... Someday
ehoeft is offline  
post #14 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 07:01 PM
Member
 
Sidewayz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: HUSKERLAND
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlm9 View Post

I have an S2 on order but a friend of mine has his S2 already. He sold his dual HP's to try out the JTR gear and loves it. I have also owned dual HP's so I can give you a comparison as soon as mine comes in. I don't think you can go wrong with either. I prefer the Captivator myself. I currently have the powered version with the 4000W amp. Can't wait to see how both Caps interact with each other.

From what I have heard, only 1 or 2 Cap S2's have actually been sent out so your friend is in very limited company.
Sidewayz is offline  
post #15 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 09:14 PM
Member
 
NumLock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm in the same boat. I can't decide, flipping coins right now.
I think it will come down to who ever has the next sale. Mark and Jeff, hint hint
NumLock is offline  
post #16 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 10:41 PM
Senior Member
 
carlm9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post


Jason, I thought you were going with another powered Cap?

Either way, looking forward to hearing your impressions. This just goes to show how much preference rules since we have both had Caps and Submersives and have opposite opinions.

When are you supposed to get the S2?

Carp,
I was going with another Cap but due to rave rviews from my friend about his S2 I changed my mind. His room is 3x my size and he said it is a beast. I will try them together but most likely will end up selling the Cap. The S2 should be shipping in a few weeks. No hurry, my single Cap has never even broke a sweat yet in two years.
Take care
carlm9 is offline  
post #17 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 10:44 PM
Senior Member
 
carlm9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewayz View Post


From what I have heard, only 1 or 2 Cap S2's have actually been sent out so your friend is in very limited company.

Tell me about it, he has both the OS and S2. Lucky guy
carlm9 is offline  
post #18 of 61 Old 04-10-2012, 10:45 PM
Senior Member
 
carlm9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

carlm9, are you planning to integrate a ported 4kW Cap and a Cap S2 into the same system. If so how do you plan to do it?
Tim

Tim,
I am going to try both at the same time, but may sell the Cap later on. Let you kow.
carlm9 is offline  
post #19 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 07:32 AM
Advanced Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 867
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I'm aiming for a pair of Submersive HP's. Although, the Terraform XL looks like it may be the new king of subwoofers when that comes out lol
Blackdevil77 is offline  
post #20 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 07:42 AM
Member
 
Sidewayz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: HUSKERLAND
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

Terraform XL looks like it may be the new king of subwoofers when that comes out lol

Also the king of inpraticality. The current versions of the Captivator, Submersive HP, Cap S2 and especially the Orbit Shifter are pressing the bounds extreme performance while maintaining somewhat reasonable size limits in a persons home already. But excess is the norm to some on AVS it seems. That being said, I am sure Mark will have no issues with selling all the XL's he decides to build.
Sidewayz is offline  
post #21 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 07:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 867
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewayz View Post

Also the king of inpraticality. The current versions of the Captivator, Submersive HP, Cap S2 and especially the Orbit Shifter are pressing the bounds extreme performance while maintaining somewhat reasonable size limits in a persons home already. But excess is the norm to some on AVS it seems. That being said, I am sure Mark will have no issues with selling all the XL's he decides to build.

Yes that's very true, being the size of a refrigerator lol. But as you know, practicality wasn't taken into account in this subs design. Just brutal, foundation cracking bass for dedicated rooms for those who live, breath, eat audio lol.

I can 2 of them laid horizontally under my screen from wall to wall lol
Blackdevil77 is offline  
post #22 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 08:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MIkeDuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: eastern PA
Posts: 6,289
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 78
IMHO, I think the Terra Form XL subs are for people with really really big rooms and who don't want to load them up with 4-5 subs. Just get two Terra Form XL subs, and more then likely, you will be done. I think each XL will equal at least 2-3, maybe even 4 ORIGINAL 1000 watt SubMersive subs down low.
I do have to agree though the size is really pushing the limits. But, for some people, it may make more sense to have two of these monsters instead of 3-4 SubMersive subs.

It ain't easy being green.
My System
MIkeDuke is offline  
post #23 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 09:15 AM
Advanced Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 867
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I forgot where I read it, but I DO remember reading that Mark said the Terraform XL subs will have SIGNIFICANTLY more output below 20Hz then the current Submersives. So I guess its for those with massive rooms, as well as anyone willing to fit it that wants very loud, undistorted bass below 20Hz to really shake things up lol
Blackdevil77 is offline  
post #24 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 09:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
capecodorthopod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: cape cod
Posts: 1,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I can see it now.
"I tried to do a sub crawl with my Terraform XL now I need new seating."
I actually have room for a couple of TF XL's in my dedicated HT but "just" dual HP's already surpass reference level bass and threaten the structural integrity of the room.
My local cinema could use a few TF XL's or OS's. Their bass pales compared to mine
Tim
capecodorthopod is offline  
post #25 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 11:44 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

IMHO, I think the Terra Form XL subs are for people with really really big rooms and who don't want to load them up with 4-5 subs. Just get two Terra Form XL subs, and more then likely, you will be done. I think each XL will equal at least 2-3, maybe even 4 ORIGINAL 1000 watt SubMersive subs down low.
I do have to agree though the size is really pushing the limits. But, for some people, it may make more sense to have two of these monsters instead of 3-4 SubMersive subs.

i bet i could squeeze a pair in here...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
post #26 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 12:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,635
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 301 Post(s)
Liked: 473
I guess it depends on what you guys consider low. Single digit lows is still best served by the submersive or CapS than any ported sub unless that tune is 5hz.
MKtheater is online now  
post #27 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 12:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MIkeDuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: eastern PA
Posts: 6,289
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 78
I think Mark was referencing somewhere in the 10Hz range as being low. That is where the XL pulls ahead of the SubMersive. Even multiple SubMersive subs. Now I can't find the quote, but I think that is what the aim is. I would still love to see some pics of these in real rooms with feedback.

It ain't easy being green.
My System
MIkeDuke is offline  
post #28 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 01:35 PM
Senior Member
 
carlm9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The Terraform XL sounds like a beast but it has been in design for almost 2-1/2 years. Does anyone know if it is close or is it just speculation?
carlm9 is offline  
post #29 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 02:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark Seaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 6,066
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlm9 View Post

The Terraform XL sounds like a beast but it has been in design for almost 2-1/2 years. Does anyone know if it is close or is it just speculation?

Closer than we have been in the past with what could very well be workable and deliverable parts, but still months away from regular availability. With the final parts it will also be significantly more expensive (more than 2x SubMersive HP) and higher performance than originally planned. I will not be taking any new orders on this until I've delivered the early and custom orders already lined up.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
Mark Seaton is offline  
post #30 of 61 Old 04-11-2012, 06:55 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,635
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 301 Post(s)
Liked: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post


Closer than we have been in the past with what could very well be workable and deliverable parts, but still months away from regular availability. With the final parts it will also be significantly more expensive (more than 2x SubMersive HP) and higher performance than originally planned. I will not be taking any new orders on this until I've delivered the early and custom orders already lined up.

Just how big are these and what spl are we talking? I will assume awesome sound quality as always.
MKtheater is online now  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off