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post #31 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

It seems that way to my ears.

not really doubting your ears, just curious, since i'm not sure why that should happen... especially with a subwoofer signal...

did you recalibrate the system when switching back and forth? if not, that could be why you heard a difference... besides the possible spl difference noted by a previous poster, using wireless could possibly introduce a bit of a delay difference, due to the processing required...

both of the above could result in a perceived loss of "tightness"...

edit: i see from your next post that you took care of the potential spl issue...

- chris

 

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post #32 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

I have an SMS1 and an SPL meter. I have them all set equally from my listening position at the same db. Like I said, my room opens up to the right so the 2 on the left are in corners and the two on the right are in the place where corners would be if there were a wall. They re all symmetrical and really the only places I can put 4 subs without stacking them in the front. I have a fireplace to my left in the middle and french doors to the rear in the middle.

An SMS-1 can only output 1 EQ'd signal. IOW, you would EQ the 4 subs as if they were 1 sub. That is fine as what you hear is the combined response of all 4 subs, as if they were 1 sub.

However, level setting in a system were some of the subs get more room reinforcement than others is probably better achieved with gain-matching than level matching. Here is a thread that discusses it:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=gain+matching

In your room, the corner loaded subs will get a lot more room reinforcement than the non-corner loaded subs. They'll end up being set lower than the non-corner loaded subs. The non-corner loaded subs, being set higher, will reach their limits sooner, compress and distort sooner. To even this out, the gain-matching technique is a better option. Try it and see.

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post #33 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

An SMS-1 can only output 1 EQ'd signal. IOW, you would EQ the 4 subs as if they were 1 sub. That is fine as what you hear is the combined response of all 4 subs, as if they were 1 sub.

However, level setting in a system were some of the subs get more room reinforcement than others is probably better achieved with gain-matching than level matching. Here is a thread that discusses it:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=gain+matching

In your room, the corner loaded subs will get a lot more room reinforcement than the non-corner loaded subs. They'll end up being set lower than the non-corner loaded subs. The non-corner loaded subs, being set higher, will reach their limits sooner, compress and distort sooner. To even this out, the gain-matching technique is a better option. Try it and see.

Craig

Thanks! I already did them with nearfield measurements at 90 db but in the positions they are currently in. Do I really have to move them to the middle? They are heavy! Ha.

Kaboom.
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post #34 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


not really doubting your ears, just curious, since i'm not sure why that should happen... especially with a subwoofer signal...

did you recalibrate the system when switching back and forth? if not, that could be why you heard a difference... besides the possible spl difference noted by a previous poster, using wireless could possibly introduce a bit of a delay difference, due to the processing required...

both of the above could result in a perceived loss of "tightness"...

edit: i see from your next post that you took care of the potential spl issue...

Delay is my guess.

Kaboom.
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post #35 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep. From Hsu...

"Ah, I did not realize that you are running two wired and two wireless. Yes, there is a slight delay through the wireless transmitter. Try running all wireless to see if that eliminates the tightness difference."

Guess I'm not crazy but I won't run them all wireless. I'll hardwire rears for sure now.

Kaboom.
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post #36 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 09:23 AM
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^^^

cool...

always good to know you aren't crazy...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #37 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Well at least not in this regard In my correspondence with Hsu , they are asking me if stacking them in the front is an option. Lol. I see more sub moving in my future. Good thing I love this stuff!

Kaboom.
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post #38 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

Well at least not in this regard In my correspondence with Hsu , they are asking me if stacking them in the front is an option. Lol. I see more sub moving in my future. Good thing I love this stuff!

Hi Wingnut, Nice looking room. May I make a suggestion? The front left sub and the sub in the back, also by the fireplace, might benefit from you placing the subs diagonally in the corners so the subs are not firing directly at the fireplace. Or, if you were to point the subs so they fire down the long corresponding wall, you might also gain better SQ from the subs. That would be an easy move for you to try.

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post #39 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 12:20 PM
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It's too bad that the front stage wasn't placed where the fireplace is? It would have all worked nicely with that setup.
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post #40 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post


Hi Wingnut, Nice looking room. May I make a suggestion? The front left sub and the sub in the back, also by the fireplace, might benefit from you placing the subs diagonally in the corners so the subs are not firing directly at the fireplace. Or, if you were to point the subs so they fire down the long corresponding wall, you might also gain better SQ from the subs. That would be an easy move for you to try.

Thanks I'll try that

Kaboom.
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post #41 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

Well at least not in this regard In my correspondence with Hsu , they are asking me if stacking them in the front is an option. Lol. I see more sub moving in my future. Good thing I love this stuff!

with 4 of them, i hope you have a dolly...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #42 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

It's too bad that the front stage wasn't placed where the fireplace is? It would have all worked nicely with that setup.

Ii love the fireplace ! ;p I am trying to go for a great looking as well as sounding room. And it does sound excellent. I just need to wire these darn subs now.

Kaboom.
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post #43 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

Ii love the fireplace ! ;p I am trying to go for a great looking as well as sounding room. And it does sound excellent. I just need to wire these darn subs now.

I understand what you are saying and doing. I too faced the same issue and finally just ran the damn wires under the throw rug and along the wall on the floor. Don't really notice them anymore (only me and the dog in the house now) so that was an easy decision.
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post #44 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post


I understand what you are saying and doing. I too faced the same issue and finally just ran the damn wires under the throw rug and along the wall on the floor. Don't really notice them anymore (only me and the dog in the house now) so that was an easy decision.

That would drive me insane. I'm kinda anal with decor as well as the home theater.

Kaboom.
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post #45 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

I'm kinda anal with decor as well as the home theater.

I can't imagine trying to integrate the priorities of aesthetic decor with the requirements of good sound and video qualities... in a non-dedicated, "family room" environment. You are to be complimented for making the effort. I hope you realize both goals!

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post #46 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post


I can't imagine trying to integrate the priorities of aesthetic decor with the requirements of good sound and video qualities... in a non-dedicated, "family room" environment. You are to be complimented for making the effort. I hope you realize both goals!

Craig

Thank you.

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post #47 of 56 Old 04-23-2012, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

That would drive me insane. I'm kinda anal with decor as well as the home theater.

Decor wise I did have a sofa and 2 recliners and now went with just the one power recliner. Kids came for a visit and asked what happened to the furniture and I told them to visit more often and there might be more seating in the room for watching movies.
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post #48 of 56 Old 04-24-2012, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Decor wise I did have a sofa and 2 recliners and now went with just the one power recliner. Kids came for a visit and asked what happened to the furniture and I told them to visit more often and there might be more seating in the room for watching movies.

Ha! That's one way to do it.

I've done the best I can. The room is pretty live so I have the drapes a rug and a fabric couch. Everyone I demo it for says it sounds better than the theater and wants me to design theirs I really enjoy it. I'd love to have a dedicated theater. Someday maybe but until then I'm pretty happy.

I just need a bit more knowledge in this LFE area. I'm learning. I do have some Real Traps in the attic but ....they're ugly. ;p

Kaboom.
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post #49 of 56 Old 04-24-2012, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I think I've settled on two stacked in the front left comer , one in the back left corner ( fixes a 40-45 HZ null) and 1 on the front right. I think....

Kaboom.
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post #50 of 56 Old 04-24-2012, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

I think I've settled on two stacked in the front left comer , one in the back left corner ( fixes a 40-45 HZ null) and 1 on the front right. I think....

With corner reinforcement, the 2 stacked in the front corner are going to be 10 dB or more higher than the other 2. (Stacking gives 6 dB of increased output, corner loading can give 6 more.) I strongly suggest you separate the 2 in the front corner. Use the extra one to flatten some other part of the FR.

The SMS-1's real time display is a great tool for this. Set it so all the EQ bands are at zero and then slide the extra sub around the room until you see an improvement in FR. Leave it there.

Craig

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post #51 of 56 Old 04-24-2012, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

Want to hook up 4 Hsu Uls15 subwoofers 2 stacked on either side of the front stage where I already have 1 subwoofer cable in each spot. My issue is that I can't add a new cable as they are in wall ( or it least it would be a PITA). The obvious solution is a Y connector but I cant find any that are long enough to reach each input from one sub to the other. . Also, I can't seem to find any Y connectors that are all female. Am I missing something obvious ?

TIA

You take 1 female to 2 male RCA Y-splitter and stick it to the cable coming out of your wall.
Then take 2 RCA male to female extension cables and hook them up.
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post #52 of 56 Old 04-25-2012, 03:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

With corner reinforcement, the 2 stacked in the front corner are going to be 10 dB or more higher than the other 2. (Stacking gives 6 dB of increased output, corner loading can give 6 more.) I strongly suggest you separate the 2 in the front corner. Use the extra one to flatten some other part of the FR.

The SMS-1's real time display is a great tool for this. Set it so all the EQ bands are at zero and then slide the extra sub around the room until you see an improvement in FR. Leave it there.

Craig

Thanks. I actually changed my mind before I read this and now it's back in the back left corner. After moving them around a million times, placing one in each 'corner' seems to be the best. I don't have to do any EQ ing except for a peak at around 70 which stays consistent with pretty much all placement options and a small bump at 23 ish.

Kaboom.
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post #53 of 56 Old 04-25-2012, 08:54 AM
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Isn't it fun to move subs all over the room to find the "just right spot"?
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post #54 of 56 Old 04-25-2012, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Isn't it fun to move subs all over the room to find the "just right spot"?

Especially when they weigh 90 lbs!

Kaboom.
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post #55 of 56 Old 04-29-2012, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Update:

So far , I am running them wirelessly in the 4 corners and they sound really good. I'll have to say I am not having the issues I had before with the wireless feature. The only time I hear them pop now is when I run the microwave. I wonder if that's because in my new house my neighbors are farther away ( ref. interference) or if they have refined the system....? Hmmmmm. Anyhoo...will still probably hard wire them but not in a rush.

Kaboom.
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post #56 of 56 Old 04-30-2012, 02:15 PM
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Home depot has the y splitters cheaper, like under $3.00 ea .
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