VTF-15H or PB12-Plus - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I have narrowed my search down to either the VTF-15H or the PB12-Plus. I have read the reviews and the threads. I just wanted some final opinions before I make my purchase. I was trying to spend a bit less with the HSU but my wife said, "just get the one that makes you happy."

Info:
Room size 11'x23'x8' two open doors.
Upgrading from a Mirage BPS-400 (sealed dual 12's)
Movies/ Music 50/50

Funny note:
I'll be making this purchase with coins I have been rolling for the last three days.
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post #2 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 10:00 AM
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I would go with the 15
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post #3 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 10:05 AM
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Another vote for the VTF-15H
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post #4 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 10:25 AM
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My choice would be the SVS.

For around the same money I'd go with the Rythmik FV15HP though >_>

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post #5 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 10:46 AM
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I'd buy the hsu. These two subs were compared directly in the 2011 KC sub meet listed in my signature. I'd you were primarily movies I'd recommend svs, since mix I'd recommend hsu. You really can't go wrong with either and they are fairly equitable subs.

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post #6 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

The VTF-15H is very highly-rated, but I'd go for the PB12-Plus.

Ungodly output capabilities
Delivers true 20Hz performance
Flawlessly engineered product



Also from that review



Perfect example of highly compressed output. How audible that is is another question.

Edit: The HSU looks much better, only compressing at its maximum outputs

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post #7 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I'd buy the hsu. These two subs were compared directly in the 2011 KC sub meet listed in my signature. I'd you were primarily movies I'd recommend svs, since mix I'd recommend hsu. You really can't go wrong with either and they are fairly equitable subs.

Wasn't that the older SVS with a smaller amp and a downfiring configuration?
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post #8 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I'd buy the hsu. These two subs were compared directly in the 2011 KC sub meet listed in my signature. I'd you were primarily movies I'd recommend svs, since mix I'd recommend hsu. You really can't go wrong with either and they are fairly equitable subs.

Well I think they have changed the enclosure, driver, and amplifier since that model, so not sure how comparable that is. Here is what audioholics numbers show, which are somewhat comparable.

Hsu Research VTF-15H CEA Test Performance
Frequency Maximum Peak SPL @ 1 Meter RMS @ 2 meters
20 Hz 112.9 dB 103.9 dB
25 Hz 118.8 dB 109.8 dB
32 Hz 122.0 dB 113 dB
40 Hz 124.7 dB 115.7 dB
50 Hz 124.7 dB 115.7 dB
63 Hz 124.6 dB 115.6 dB

HSU's own numbers maximum peak spl @1 meter
20 hz 114db
31.5 hz 121db
40-100 hz 123-125db


SVS pb12+
Frequency Maximum Peak SPL @ 1 Meter RMS SPL @ 2 Meters
20 hz 114.4db 107db
25 hz 117db 109.5db
32 hz 119db 111.5db
40 hz 121.4db 114.3db
50 hz 122.8db 115.3db
63 hz 122.8db 115.3db

Update: 9/27/11

In order to make it easier for our readers to compare our CEA data between subwoofers tested prior to our new Subwoofer Measurement Protocol, we scaled our 1 meter peak CEA data to 2 meter RMS by subtracting 9dB for each frequency. We then added 1.5dB to the final result since SVS recently updated the DSP in the PB12-Plus DSP to yield 1.5-2dB more output across the entire subwoofers usable bandwidth.

Rythmik FV-15HP CEA Test Performance
Frequency Maximum Peak SPL @ 1 Meter RMS SPL @ 2 Meters
20 Hz 116.5 dB 107.5 dB
25 Hz 122.0 dB 113 dB
32 Hz 126.8 dB 117.8 dB
40 Hz 129.0 dB 120 dB
50 Hz 128.9 dB 119.9 dB
63 Hz 128.7 dB 119.7 dB

All are excellent subs at their price point. I agree with Phillip to go with the fv15hp if you don't mind the extra coin. Of course by then you are almost half way to buying a second vtf-15H, and multisubs is a proven solution to better in room bass response while adding output. I have two 15H spread out and have smooth in room rising response house curve to 16hz with plenty of headroom available at my listening levels (-10 to -8) with the most punishing bass movies.

PS Took me over hour to type this, babies don't care about forum posts.
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post #9 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 12:29 PM
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The pb12 is definitely deserving of a lot of respect competing against the 15" monsters. I enjoy my dual vtf's, but if I was in the boat of needing a smaller set of subs, the pb12 would be in my living room. I'm considering one for the master bedroom actually.

I like the ability to tune my subs for different types of listening, which was my ultimate decision going with the vtf's.
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post #10 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

The pb12 is definitely deserving of a lot of respect competing against the 15" monsters. I enjoy my dual vtf's, but if I was in the boat of needing a smaller set of subs, the pb12 would be in my living room. I'm considering one for the master bedroom actually.

I like the ability to tune my subs for different types of listening, which was my ultimate decision going with the vtf's.

SVSound's ported Plus and Ultra models all allow multiple tuning modes (16Hz, 20Hz, sealed).

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post #11 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I'd buy the hsu. These two subs were compared directly in the 2011 KC sub meet listed in my signature. I'd you were primarily movies I'd recommend svs, since mix I'd recommend hsu. You really can't go wrong with either and they are fairly equitable subs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno711 View Post

Wasn't that the older SVS with a smaller amp and a downfiring configuration?

yes, it was the older model as Luke pointed out that basically everything was upgraded in the PB12 from that original model which is at least 5 years old or more.

The two subs are very comparable in overall output but the SVS will dig a bit deeper in max output mode (the Hsu is down 10db @20Hz)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

I like the ability to tune my subs for different types of listening, which was my ultimate decision going with the vtf's.

.....SVS should start adding Mark 1,II,III, to their subs whenever they make a big adjustment to the design because this kind of statement is only applicable to some of the older models.

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post #12 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 02:45 PM
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I am looking at the exact same 3 subs that are mentioned, and my room is almost identical size. It is only 7 feet tall though.

The only difference for me is I am 90% movies, 10% music. How would that change some of your recommendations?

Kirk
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post #13 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 03:54 PM
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I would be real curious if the SVS could do a full 10db in someones room over the HSU
maybe 3db very doubtful looking at REW charts from various forums and there again I know rooms dictate the final result.
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post #14 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I would be real curious if the SVS could do a full 10db in someones room over the HSU
maybe 3db very doubtful looking at REW charts from various forums and there again I know rooms dictate the final result.

No, I think he means that, per that chart at Audioholics, the VTF-15H is down 10dB at 20Hz compared to its own max output an octave up (32Hz). He wasn't saying that the PB12-Plus is 10dB louder at any frequency than the 15H.

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post #15 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 04:27 PM
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How much different in sound is the new pb12 + vs the old? My suspicion is not much. The pair of pb13 ultras I bought immediately following the 2011 sub meet sounded the same as the pb12 + with more output capacity. frontfire vs downfire doesn't really matter unless it compliments your room modes more one way or the other and that is room specific.

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post #16 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 04:45 PM
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If I was doing it all over again, I would probably go with the Rythmik FV-15HP.
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post #17 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 04:59 PM
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I've never heard the HSU but I've had my PB12-Plus for 5 months and can't recommend it enough. I was not prepared for the build quality when I unboxed it and the performance speaks for itself. It's a component I can see myself keeping until I hand it down to my son many years from now when he enters into this hobby.
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post #18 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I appreciate the Rythmik suggestions, I have seen the specs and read the shootouts. I just can't seem to get onboard with the brand.
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post #19 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno711 View Post

I appreciate the Rythmik suggestions, I have seen the specs and read the shootouts. I just can't seem to get onboard with the brand.

Been in your shoes, but after post after post and watching and rewatching the shootout many, many times, I went and bought the Rythmik FV15. I looked at SVS, HSU, Epik, ED, and choose the Rythmik. Delivery on Friday!!

Jeff
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post #20 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post

If I was doing it all over again, I would probably go with the Rythmik FV-15HP.

Can I ask why? I am torn. I have Ascend Acoustics speakers, and I really trust Dave from Ascend. He sells Rythmik, so it must be good if he is sticking his neck out.

I live in Ohio, and since SVS is in Ohio it kind of draws me to them. I am looking for something that will pressurize my room during Cloverfield. :-)

Kirk
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post #21 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k2208 View Post


Can I ask why? I am torn. I have Ascend Acoustics speakers, and I really trust Dave from Ascend. He sells Rythmik, so it must be good if he is sticking his neck out.

I live in Ohio, and since SVS is in Ohio it kind of draws me to them. I am looking for something that will pressurize my room during Cloverfield. :-)

The Rythmik has a lot more slam above 40hz which would make it a better fit for music. Plus I like the servo control idea.
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post #22 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

No, I think he means that, per that chart at Audioholics, the VTF-15H is down 10dB at 20Hz compared to its own max output an octave up (32Hz). He wasn't saying that the PB12-Plus is 10dB louder at any frequency than the 15H.

yes, that's what I meant.

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post #23 of 24 Old 04-24-2012, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

How much different in sound is the new pb12 + vs the old? My suspicion is not much. The pair of pb13 ultras I bought immediately following the 2011 sub meet sounded the same as the pb12 + with more output capacity. frontfire vs downfire doesn't really matter unless it compliments your room modes more one way or the other and that is room specific.

I don't know what the actual audible difference is, but they did change everything including a completely new DSP tuned amp, enclosure dimensions, port design, at least two revisions to the driver.

Knowing SVS, it probably plays measurably cleaner, louder, flatter than their old design.

All I am saying is that people should not automatically write them off based on information on an old model.

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post #24 of 24 Old 04-25-2012, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the posts. I just ordered the HSU VTF-15H, it should be an improvement over my Mirage BPS 400. My wife and I play golf and our dog chewed up our golf GPS, I can use the cash I saved to buy a new one. I would say it's a win win situation, two new toys for a couple of days of rolling change.
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