Want more "impact" from bass. Mid bass module on the cheap? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 04-28-2012, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I have an svs pb12-NSD subwoofer and love it. It's accurate and gets in low. However the only think I am not pleased with is the impact of the bass. I sure feel the low end stuff that cause things on shelves to fall, but the mid end stuff, like "gunshots" , I just don't feel in the chest. The weird thing is demoing subs at bestbuy or the like, the cheaper subs seem to do a better job at this "impact" as they can't really get low to begin with so all they have is the mid bass.

I came across the HSU mid bass module that seemed to remedy my exact problem. But I was wondering if I could accomplish this cheaply. Using these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=266-270 on a cheaper bass so my SVS takes care of the lows and the cheaper bass is nearfield and takes care of the "impact" stuff.

Does it make sense? What would I be looking for in this cheap sub? Nearfield means power wont be too important, and it doesn't need to get down low, so are there any specs or specific subs I should be looking out? Would just adding another subwoofer without using it as a mid bass module improve impact or have any benefit over the 1 subwoofer/1 mid bass module setup? Any thoughts and ideas would be helpful.
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post #2 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 12:06 AM
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What do you have your crossover set at? Also what are your main speakers? It could be that you are setting your crossover to low. Making your mains try to play the midbass but they can't keep up with the output of your LFE from the sub. If you currently set it to 80hrz you might try 100.

If that isn't the issue and you do have some nice mains and it really is the SVS that is lacking (I have the same sub as you) then I would look into a second sub or upgrading to something with greater output over adding a midbass module.

Also it could just be a null in your room. You may have already have looked into this but if not you may want to research it a bit.

Just a few thoughts.
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post #3 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 08:59 AM
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Hello GB, I somewhat know what you are talking about. I dont know if this will help you at all but I can give you my experinace. I have an Outlaw EX that does excellent in the LF as it does well in the mids too BUT... the PA-150 sub I have starts to overtake the mid to upper LF I have noticed. They are two differnace subs thats for sure but for my situation its works out great. I have played around with the cross overs a bit as Stitch has mentioned as I found 80 seems to be the best... for me anyhow. I also have some large Klipsch KG 5.5's up front to contend with as well, they have dual 10" drivers.

As I had mentioned I dont know if this will help but I do know what you are talking about.

Jeff
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post #4 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

What do you have your crossover set at? Also what are your main speakers? It could be that you are setting your crossover to low. Making your mains try to play the midbass but they can't keep up with the output of your LFE from the sub. If you currently set it to 80hrz you might try 100.

If that isn't the issue and you do have some nice mains and it really is the SVS that is lacking (I have the same sub as you) then I would look into a second sub or upgrading to something with greater output over adding a midbass module.

Also it could just be a null in your room. You may have already have looked into this but if not you may want to research it a bit.

Just a few thoughts.

Crossover it set to 80, although raising it doesn't seem to improve things and the subwoofer starts getting used on things like deep voices, it would be nice if my onkyo txnr509 allowed me to crossover center channel differently but I don't believe I can. Though I could still play around with it and see results. My mains are svs s series speakers.

As for the null, the sub is not in an ideal location, its next to my tv with the mains instead of a corner, but I don't think Im in a null. I definitely here good bass.
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post #5 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbmannc View Post

I have an svs pb12-NSD subwoofer and love it. It's accurate and gets in low. However the only think I am not pleased with is the impact of the bass. I sure feel the low end stuff that cause things on shelves to fall, but the mid end stuff, like "gunshots" , I just don't feel in the chest. The weird thing is demoing subs at bestbuy or the like, the cheaper subs seem to do a better job at this "impact" as they can't really get low to begin with so all they have is the mid bass.

I came across the HSU mid bass module that seemed to remedy my exact problem. But I was wondering if I could accomplish this cheaply. Using these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=266-270 on a cheaper bass so my SVS takes care of the lows and the cheaper bass is nearfield and takes care of the "impact" stuff.

Does it make sense? What would I be looking for in this cheap sub? Nearfield means power wont be too important, and it doesn't need to get down low, so are there any specs or specific subs I should be looking out? Would just adding another subwoofer without using it as a mid bass module improve impact or have any benefit over the 1 subwoofer/1 mid bass module setup? Any thoughts and ideas would be helpful.

As a guess, the box store subs are likely peaky in that range rather than the flatter response you're getting from the SVS. Your SVS is likely better than most you're hearing in the Box store. Also their placements are setup to give that impact much like them runing their TVs hot.

If you had another sub kicking around i'd be tempted to try that fmod, just for fun if nothing else. Do you have a dbl meter (not phone app)to measure what's going on?
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post #6 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbmannc View Post

Crossover it set to 80, although raising it doesn't seem to improve things and the subwoofer starts getting used on things like deep voices, it would be nice if my onkyo txnr509 allowed me to crossover center channel differently but I don't believe I can. Though I could still play around with it and see results. My mains are svs s series speakers.

As for the null, the sub is not in an ideal location, its next to my tv with the mains instead of a corner, but I don't think Im in a null. I definitely here good bass.

A null could be occuring at that particular freq or range that you're looking for.
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post #7 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbmannc View Post

I have an svs pb12-NSD subwoofer and love it. It's accurate and gets in low. However the only think I am not pleased with is the impact of the bass. I sure feel the low end stuff that cause things on shelves to fall, but the mid end stuff, like "gunshots" , I just don't feel in the chest. The weird thing is demoing subs at bestbuy or the like, the cheaper subs seem to do a better job at this "impact" as they can't really get low to begin with so all they have is the mid bass.

I came across the HSU mid bass module that seemed to remedy my exact problem. But I was wondering if I could accomplish this cheaply. Using these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=266-270 on a cheaper bass so my SVS takes care of the lows and the cheaper bass is nearfield and takes care of the "impact" stuff.

Does it make sense? What would I be looking for in this cheap sub? Nearfield means power wont be too important, and it doesn't need to get down low, so are there any specs or specific subs I should be looking out? Would just adding another subwoofer without using it as a mid bass module improve impact or have any benefit over the 1 subwoofer/1 mid bass module setup? Any thoughts and ideas would be helpful.

It sounds like what you're looking for is a slightly exaggerated mid bass response. Audyssey (I assume you're using it) will attempt to EQ your subs flat, regardless of how many you have.

I had been using MCACC with some manual EQ for subs prior to going to Audyssey and what I got with it was more deep bass extension but less percussive mid bass. If you decide to get a second sub (not saying you shouldn't) you may have to work around Audyssey to get the response you want.
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post #8 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

As a guess, the box store subs are likely peaky in that range rather than the flatter response you're getting from the SVS. Your SVS is likely better than most you're hearing in the Box store. Also their placements are setup to give that impact much like them runing their TVs hot.

If you had another sub kicking around i'd be tempted to try that fmod, just for fun if nothing else. Do you have a dbl meter (not phone app)to measure what's going on?

My friend does have another svs I could probably borrow. The fmod is cheap enough to give a try... Unfortunately no dbl meter but a phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

A null could be occuring at that particular freq or range that you're looking for.

Ahh I see, I can't permanently change the position of the sub as the room is too small with too much furniture, but I can temporarily play around with it and see what happens. Or get rid of furniture I don't need... Fortunately no woman comes into play here.

/forever alone
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post #9 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post

It sounds like what you're looking for is a slightly exaggerated mid bass response. Audyssey (I assume you're using it) will attempt to EQ your subs flat, regardless of how many you have.

I had been using MCACC with some manual EQ for subs prior to going to Audyssey and what I got with it was more deep bass extension but less percussive mid bass. If you decide to get a second sub (not saying you shouldn't) you may have to work around Audyssey to get the response you want.

Yes I am using audyssey, but my receiver, onkyo txnr 509, has 2eq, which I was under the impression doesn't affect subwoofer, just satellites.
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post #10 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbmannc View Post

Yes I am using audyssey, but my receiver, onkyo txnr 509, has 2eq, which I was under the impression doesn't affect subwoofer, just satellites.

Well I assumed, and you know what happens when you do that....

You're correct, 2 EQ does not EQ the subs.

A second sub placed nearfield would likely help.
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post #11 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbmannc View Post

Yes I am using audyssey, but my receiver, onkyo txnr 509, has 2eq, which I was under the impression doesn't affect subwoofer, just satellites.

Keep in mind that we're just making stabs at it. . There could no null but a dip at that range that you prefer. Hell, even rotating the sub 90 degrees can make a difference and that costs nothing to try.
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post #12 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 11:16 AM
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Time to invest in some measurement gear to "See" whats really going on, until then its just a guess....

Alot of science goes into developing HT equipment, no need to stop once the box is opened and the gear is unpacked. In fact thats the way to squeeze every dime out of it...Good luck
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post #13 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 01:54 PM
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I had the same issue (also have a SVS) so I bought a pair of deftech bp7001's with built in powered 10" subs to just handle the mid bass I also bought two more deftech Prosub 1000's (also tuned to 40-80hz) by doing this my mains, center and rears get awesome midbass and my SVS handles everything below 40Hz. Best of both worlds.
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post #14 of 14 Old 04-29-2012, 05:10 PM
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I'm curious to know what frequency it is when you feel that 'chest punch'? I've heard a multitude of different responses to this, with some saying its around 100Hz to others say its a ~12dB dynamic peak at 56Hz.

Confusing to say the least :\\
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