Budget $400 sub - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Best for deep, clean bass for mid to moderatly high levels?
Cadence CSX12 Mark II 0 0%
Energy VSW-10 0 0%
PA-150 0 0%
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post #1 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Cant spend any more than $400. Looking for Deep clean bass. 14x24x8. Movies and music.

These are my options

-Cadence CSX12 Mark II
-Energy VSW-10
-PA-150
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post #2 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 07:16 AM
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PA-150 for the most output to fill the room. It won't get you the deepest bass though.
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post #3 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 08:42 AM
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BIC Acoustech PL-200.

Shawn
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post #4 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

BIC Acoustech PL-200.

No! I know form other people that the PA-150 is as good as two BIC PL-200. So 1 would get smoked by the PA-4150. So that's why I didn't include that.
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post #5 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 08:45 AM
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As a 10" sub, the VSW10 would struggle to perform in that size room.

None of these subs have good very good performance below 30hz, so you might was well go with the one with the highest SPL, the PA-150.

However, since you were previously thinking about the SVS PB12-NSD in your other thread, I would recommend the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus that is on sale for $499 shipped through May 4th. It has solid performance down below 20hz, which is good for HT usage, and plenty of output for that size room.

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post #6 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlAltElite View Post

No! I know form other people that the PA-150 is as good as two BIC PL-200. So 1 would get smoked by the PA-4150. So that's why I didn't include that.

I'm not arguing as I never head either. But both have basically the same specs. Same power ratings on their amps and the PL-200 digs 3hz deeper according to specs only. Now yes the PA is a 15" and the PL-200 is a 12" but I have a hard time believing that it takes 2 PL-200s to keep up with 1 PA 150.

Shawn
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post #7 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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me too lol. But apparently there is a thread about this very topic. Just going by what the testers and other people with the data have. Im not making this up.
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post #8 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

I'm not arguing as I never head either. But both have basically the same specs. Same power ratings on their amps and the PL-200 digs 3hz deeper according to specs only. Now yes the PA is a 15" and the PL-200 is a 12" but I have a hard time believing that it takes 2 PL-200s to keep up with 1 PA 150.

We have test data. Check Ricci's max long term averages for 20hz to 80hz: PL-200 (101.4 db) and PA-150 (107.2 db) (look at the other range responses, too). So you'd have to collocate the PL-200s to equal that.

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post #9 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 09:07 AM
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OK...... But I agree with cel.... Stretch your budget and buy the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus. I have 2 of them they are nice looking high WAF subs with the plexiglass inlaid top and they sound amazing for the price. I also bought mine on sale.

Shawn
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post #10 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

We have test data. Check Ricci's max long term averages for 20hz to 80hz: PL-200 (101.4 db) and PA-150 (107.2 db) (look at the other range responses, too). So you'd have to collocate the PL-200s to equal that.

Ok that looks like proof to me.... Prime example why one should never let specs alone determine what they buy.

Shawn
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post #11 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 09:19 AM
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And here are good graphs for the OP to follow up this discussion in other ways.

Here is the frequency response of the PA-150 and the PL-200 (what we know about the Cadence so far suggest it's probably similar) also from that same site by Josh Ricci I linked to above, a reviewer for Audioholics. Notice how peaky they are in the mid-bass range. A tremendous variance That means if you crossover your speakers at 80 or 60hz, you will get much, overemphasized mid-bass and then it will taper off such that you won't get good solid output below 30hz.

Then look at the Outlaw EX which will be similar to the Plus. You get two different port mode options depending on whether you want to emphasize more output or deeper extension, both of which will give you a much flatter response down below 30hz. So you'll be able to feel those lower bass effects well while also getting good mid-bass.

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post #12 of 23 Old 05-01-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

OK...... But I agree with cel.... Stretch your budget and buy the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus. I have 2 of them they are nice looking high WAF subs with the plexiglass inlaid top and they sound amazing for the price. I also bought mine on sale.

I would choose this option as well. In the long run I cant imagine you regretting it. Big step up from your listed subs to the Outlaw.
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post #13 of 23 Old 05-02-2012, 05:50 AM
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I can give my experinace on the $400 subject, but just keep in mind this is "my opinion" . If $400 is the TOP the OP has to spend then the PA-150 gets my vote. Now... if the OP is willing to spend another $100 then I would suggest the Outlaw Plus as Cel4145 mentioned. Heres what I have had and have....

Had...
Dual Pl-200's = Great units for the price of $250/260, so I had no regrets as they performed quite well at the time for my HT area. I read Ricci's test results last year for the PA-150 so I thought I would order that to add another.

Had Dual Pl's & have PA-150...
I believe the Pl's "maybe" would dig a bit deeper in the LF but it was hard to tell without a SPL meter at the time but when the LF would hit around the 30(+/-) mark is where the PA would shine over the PL's in a big way. To me it was close enough to say "it was a night & day differnace" so I will just leave it at that.

Have Pa-150 & Outlaw EX...
When it comes to LF the Outlaw outperforms the PA-150 without a doubt. You can feel the bass without hearing it is the best way to descibe it. When it gets into the mid bass as I will call it say 35 & up is where the PA will shine, not a night & day differnace by no means but to me I would say the PA has more "umph"... or at least it seems like it to me anyhow.

For now I will just leave it at that as I have to head to work. Have a great day!
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post #14 of 23 Old 05-02-2012, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

As a 10" sub, the VSW10 would struggle to perform in that size room.

None of these subs have good very good performance below 30hz, so you might was well go with the one with the highest SPL, the PA-150.

However, since you were previously thinking about the SVS PB12-NSD in your other thread, I would recommend the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus that is on sale for $499 shipped through May 4th. It has solid performance down below 20hz, which is good for HT usage, and plenty of output for that size room.

This.

Kaboom.
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post #15 of 23 Old 05-02-2012, 07:52 AM
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I am in the market for a budget sub. I "think" I have narrowed it down to the polk psw505 or the energy s10.3. Which is better for maintaining the sub 30hz frequencies?

My theater room is about 3000 cubed feet, signal is coming from a denon Abe-791. My front setup is two Polk monitor 60c's, cs1 center, rm8's for the heights, and soon to be mirage satellites on the sides. Suggestions?!?!?

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post #16 of 23 Old 05-02-2012, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skally View Post

When it comes to LF the Outlaw outperforms the PA-150 without a doubt. You can feel the bass without hearing it is the best way to descibe it. When it gets into the mid bass as I will call it say 35 & up is where the PA will shine, not a night & day differnace by no means but to me I would say the PA has more "umph"... or at least it seems like it to me anyhow.

Which makes complete sense based on the difference in frequency response. If one uses room correction software on a receiver to calibrate their sub or an SPL meter, that will measure the output over a wide frequency range. So because the PA-150's output is heavily weighted in the mid bass, it's going to have more oomph there once calibrated. A sub like the Plus or EX, because it's a more even across the frequency range, would end up with the mid bass is a little lower because the very low end is producing more output to reach the same average output total across the same wide frequency range.

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post #17 of 23 Old 05-02-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noman74656 View Post

I am in the market for a budget sub. I "think" I have narrowed it down to the polk psw505 or the energy s10.3. Which is better for maintaining the sub 30hz frequencies?

My theater room is about 3000 cubed feet, signal is coming from a denon Abe-791. My front setup is two Polk monitor 60c's, cs1 center, rm8's for the heights, and soon to be mirage satellites on the sides. Suggestions?!?!?

Here's a chart that shows the frequency response for the S10.3 (the blue line). And here's a review of the PSW505. The first graph would be the ones to compare against the S10.3 graph. The S10.3 is listed with a -3db point of 27hz. The PSW505 is -3db at 35hz, and by 27hz is about -10db down. So you wouldn't hear/feel the PSW505 as much below 30hz.

However, I would be worried that the S10.3 might not have the necessary total output for that room if you are listening to it fairly loud.

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post #18 of 23 Old 05-04-2012, 07:56 PM
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Thanks for the info, I am really fighting the urge to buy an outlaw plus....

Must..... stay ....within budget.....

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post #19 of 23 Old 05-04-2012, 08:13 PM
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Jl f113
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post #20 of 23 Old 05-04-2012, 09:20 PM
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Klipsch RW12D only $300 shipped through the weekend. Will go deeper then all of these subs.
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post #21 of 23 Old 05-06-2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Klipsch RW12D only $300 shipped through the weekend. Will go deeper then all of these subs.

Compare to PA-150?
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post #22 of 23 Old 05-06-2012, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by amazonracer View Post

Compare to PA-150?

PA-150 drops 20db from 60hz to 25hz. It's another mid bass blaster just like all the BIC subs.

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post #23 of 23 Old 05-06-2012, 01:32 PM
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For out put the PA 150. If you could get (somehow) 2 PL 200s I'd prefer that . Yes the 150 has more output but the room can change the sub alot and I'd rather have a more consistent response

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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