Seaton Sumersive HP, Rythmik FV15 HP, or JTR Captivator 1000 - Pick One - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: The One Money is an Object Sub to Rule Them All
Seaton Submersive HP 1 100.00%
JTR Captivator 1000 0 0%
Rythmik FV15HP 0 0%
Voters: 1. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 93 Old 05-09-2012, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
jmichaelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
This is a thought experiment to satisfy my curiosity. It seems to me these three are the trending boxes around here for the last year or so.

What would you choose and why? Does the Rythmik play at the JTR or Seaton level at ~1k less than both delivered? Are the JTR and Submersive neck and neck performance wise, as their pricing suggests, or does one clearly outperform the other?

Delivered Price:
Submersive ~$2500
JTR ~$2100
Rythmik $1,400
jmichaelf is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 93 Old 05-09-2012, 08:20 PM
Senior Member
 
Sick Mother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
My vote was for a SubMersive HP. I've had mine for about a year now and am always impressed. Articulate, clean, powerful and just the right size. And with the variety of high quality finishes, handsome.

I've never heard the other two, but you just can't go wrong with Seaton.
Sick Mother is offline  
post #3 of 93 Old 05-09-2012, 09:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bsoko2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post

My vote was for a SubMersive HP. I've had mine for about a year now and am always impressed. Articulate, clean, powerful and just the right size. And with the variety of high quality finishes, handsome.

I've never heard the other two, but you just can't go wrong with Seaton.

That's why I have 3 of them. Best bang for the buck with excellent customer service.
bsoko2 is offline  
post #4 of 93 Old 05-09-2012, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
jmichaelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

That's why I have 3 of them. Best bang for the buck with excellent customer service.

The value argument is very much in play here. Others might consider spending $7,500 elsewhere. The subjective concept of value is what drove me to post this in the first place.

The JL Fathom or Wilson Thor's Hammer aren't targeted at the value crowd. But if we include these products in the mix, how do they stack up? Does the Submersive produce anything remotely close to the JL or Wilson? What kind of SPL, FR, and linearity can they offer that lower cost subs can not? And assuming three or four Submersives can get you 90% of the way of a single Thor's Hammer while saving you ten thousand dollars, can four or five Rythmiks do the same for six grand, and save you $15,000 over the Wilson?
jmichaelf is offline  
post #5 of 93 Old 05-09-2012, 09:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
stormwind13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MN
Posts: 842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 54
submersive HP, by far.
stormwind13 is online now  
post #6 of 93 Old 05-09-2012, 10:45 PM
Member
 
Follz20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 28
"submersive HP, by far."

You've heard all 3 subs in the same space, have you? If not, by what criteria are you drawing your conclusion?

I've heard the SubM and Rythmik in different spaces with different listening material so it's quite hard to make a comparison; impossible even. Still, as demonstrated in the blind shootout where the SubM, Cap and other (much) lower cost subs were involved, the conclusions were hardly definitive - many could not tell which sub was which.

At this level of choice between subs, the difference will not be the monstrous gulf some will make it out to be - you'd probably only notice the difference at absurd volumes. Not only that, many will advocate what they have and/or go off the recommendations of others without hearing any one of them - so this will hardly be an objective exercise.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.
Follz20 is offline  
post #7 of 93 Old 05-09-2012, 11:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Test123455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Since I'm still trying to figure out why so few companies use servos besides Rythmik...i'd like to ask how that factors in here. The FV15 is the only one that has a servo; wouldnt that give it an inherent advantage since neither of the other 2 have it?
Test123455 is offline  
post #8 of 93 Old 05-09-2012, 11:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,598
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked: 471
my Jamo d7 subs had servo controlled drivers.

you can see where they placed in the 2011 meet linked in my sig.

servos don't make them automatically better or worse IMO.



My vote is for the Seaton Submersive because it's a known high quality with a lot of fans and 1st and 2nd place finishes at multiple sub meets. Had you put a full blooded JTR Captivator up there instead of the Cap 1000 I would have voted for that -- having heard both in three meets now and had both at my house to demo back and forth ---- I personally like the caps better. One of my buddies, carp, personally likes the submersives better. There is no right or wrong. As Follz20 said - it's pretty hard to even know what's what when blinded out of a set of top shelf subs. It ends up being which plays cleaner and the same high volumes to a certain degree. I've not heard the Rythmik HP, but I have heard a single Rythmik 15" DIY setup with the same amp and box size that Rythmik uses for their non HP model and while not the same setup as the HP.... it wasn't even in the same league as far as output. Sound quality was nice on the Rythmik, but output was minimal by comparison.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Archaea is online now  
post #9 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 03:46 AM
Senior Member
 
kwarny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

my Jamo d7 subs had servo controlled drivers.

you can see where they placed in the 2011 meet linked in my sig.

servos don't make them automatically better or worse IMO.



My vote is for the Seaton Submersive because it's a known high quality with a lot of fans and 1st and 2nd place finishes at multiple sub meets. Had you put a full blooded JTR Captivator up there instead of the Cap 1000 I would have voted for that -- having heard both in three meets now and had both at my house to demo back and forth ---- I personally like the caps better. One of my buddies, carp, personally likes the submersives better. There is no right or wrong. As Follz20 said - it's pretty hard to even know what's what when blinded out of a set of top shelf subs. It ends up being which plays cleaner and the same high volumes to a certain degree. I've not heard the Rythmik HP, but I have heard a single Rythmik 15" DIY setup with the same amp and box size that Rythmik uses for their non HP model and while not the same setup as the HP.... it wasn't even in the same league as far as output. Sound quality was nice on the Rythmik, but output was minimal by comparison.

Archaea, I'm waiting for another Omaha guy with dual rythmiks to be free from work soon. We are hoping for three of these against one of Greg's UXL-18. The only time I've heard my rythmik become sloppy was in a tiny bathroom and a tiny 9*10 bedroom due to tons of ringing from the room and extreme room gain. So, if we put three in Greg's room, all of a sudden the bass becomes sloppy in the time domain and has a sound signature. I don't mean to call other subs sloppy but it is noticeable after being accustomed to the rythmik and my old drum line neighbors in the dorms.

I'm betting that three rythmiks are still considered to be no output subs after both these and one UXL are level matched at a reasonable volume. If both pass basic measurements nearly the same but sound significantly different, then what ? The sub can't sound any clearer than when your ear is by the driver unless you have an annoying 60 Hz hum from someone putting your kitchen and living room on the same circuit haha. I know, subs are the main event for you and like bass waves thick enough to surf on . Actually the Captivator (blind setup B) was my favorite high output sub. Too bad no one in the area enjoys music. The ambience from subs might be my favorite part.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge - Stephen Hawking

 

Kyle Bosso - SOB

kwarny is offline  
post #10 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 03:55 AM
Senior Member
 
morrischestnut60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 478
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

This is a thought experiment to satisfy my curiosity. It seems to me these three are the trending boxes around here for the last year or so.

What would you choose and why? Does the Rythmik play at the JTR or Seaton level at ~1k less than both delivered? Are the JTR and Submersive neck and neck performance wise, as their pricing suggests, or does one clearly outperform the other?

Delivered Price:
Submersive ~$2500
JTR ~$2100
Rythmik $1,400

Why not add $300 and get dual Rythmik setup?

Politics is like religion. You never know who you serve.
morrischestnut60 is offline  
post #11 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 05:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

The value argument is very much in play here. Others might consider spending $7,500 elsewhere. The subjective concept of value is what drove me to post this in the first place.

The JL Fathom or Wilson Thor's Hammer aren't targeted at the value crowd. But if we include these products in the mix, how do they stack up? Does the Submersive produce anything remotely close to the JL or Wilson? What kind of SPL, FR, and linearity can they offer that lower cost subs can not? And assuming three or four Submersives can get you 90% of the way of a single Thor's Hammer while saving you ten thousand dollars, can four or five Rythmiks do the same for six grand, and save you $15,000 over the Wilson?

can't comment on the thor's hammer, but a subm hp will give you *more* than the jl...

the jl's "appeal" is that it gets you almost everything that a sub like a subm hp gives you in a very small and attractive package... the fathom is a wonderful piece of engineering, and for it's target market, well worth the coin...

i have subm's so i voted for them... but if i had "other factors" affecting my decision (read: waf), i wouldn't go to sleep at night crying if i had a pair of jl's instead of a pair of subm's...

the rythmik, while a very nice sub and a capable performer in it's own right, really isn't comparable to the subm or jl....

one man's opinion...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
post #12 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 05:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MIkeDuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: eastern PA
Posts: 6,157
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 66
You know, whenever I see threads like this, I am biting by tongue. I happen to have an HP and love it. Unfortunalitly I have not heard the Thor's Hammer or JL subs. I can say that I have heard the older, Wilson Watch dog and the older JM Labs Sub Utopia Be. Both of those cost way more then my SubMersive HP. But I am confident that I am not missing anything with the SubMersive HP. I also have some very old charts that Mark sent me when I was considering what sub to buy. They were the older 1000 watt models. They were also in "regular" size rooms. The numbers and charts that Mark sent me left my jaw on the floor. But I am hesitant to post them, or even PM them out of respect for Mark. For it's size and form factor, I really think it's hard to fault this sub given it's performance. But that is just another mans opinion .

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubblegum .
My System

MIkeDuke is offline  
post #13 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 06:32 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,204
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

my Jamo d7 subs had servo controlled drivers.

you can see where they placed in the 2011 meet linked in my sig.

servos don't make them automatically better or worse IMO.



My vote is for the Seaton Submersive because it's a known high quality with a lot of fans and 1st and 2nd place finishes at multiple sub meets. Had you put a full blooded JTR Captivator up there instead of the Cap 1000 I would have voted for that -- having heard both in three meets now and had both at my house to demo back and forth ---- I personally like the caps better. One of my buddies, carp, personally likes the submersives better. There is no right or wrong. As Follz20 said - it's pretty hard to even know what's what when blinded out of a set of top shelf subs. It ends up being which plays cleaner and the same high volumes to a certain degree. I've not heard the Rythmik HP, but I have heard a single Rythmik 15" DIY setup with the same amp and box size that Rythmik uses for their non HP model and while not the same setup as the HP.... it wasn't even in the same league as far as output. Sound quality was nice on the Rythmik, but output was minimal by comparison.

Archaea,
Jeff has told me the Cap1000 is basically a Cap with 6 dbs's less output. I am not sure if it even that far apart with spl but my vote goes to the Submersive HP. If you like the Cap's sound quality better than the submersive than you would still vote for the Cap1000. I have two of them in my friends theater which is 3 times the size of mine and they can play reference easily. My room is actually harder to get louder spl's from.
MKtheater is online now  
post #14 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 06:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,958
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Archaea,
Jeff has told me the Cap1000 is basically a Cap with 6 dbs's less output. I am not sure if it even that far apart with spl but my vote goes to the Submersive HP. If you like the Cap's sound quality better than the submersive than you would still vote for the Cap1000. I have two of them in my friends theater which is 3 times the size of mine and they can play reference easily. My room is actually harder to get louder spl's from.

I agree, I've heard that the ep4000 amp powering a passive Cap is similar to a Cap 1000. Archaea if you were in my room when I was comparing that to a Submersive I'm betting you would have picked the Cap especially on movies which would mean you would like the Cap 1000 more too.
carp is online now  
post #15 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 07:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 256
I voted for the Rythmik FV15HP because the name is cool and Mark Seaton is a really smart, good guy ...

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #16 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
jmichaelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
RMK!, were you burned or something? Why so snotty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by morrischestnut60 View Post

Why not add $300 and get dual Rythmik setup?

It's not in the poll, but the conversation is wide open. There are a couple of scenarios we can play with regarding dual Rythmiks. We could do an SPL/Linearity comparison with them stacked or we could to an FR/SPL/Linearity comparison with them in two parts of the room. I'm not sure what the outcome would be, but I get the impression that within a reasonable size room two Rythmiks separated would hit reference with lower distortion and better FR than a single Submersive. I don't know if I'm right or not.
jmichaelf is offline  
post #17 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 07:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

RMK!, were you burned or something? Why so snotty?

Snotty humm, I gave careful consideration to my poll response. Oh, I get it, I chose the wrong emoticon ... fixed.

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #18 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 09:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,958
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

I get the impression that within a reasonable size room two Rythmiks separated would hit reference with lower distortion and better FR than a single Submersive. I don't know if I'm right or not.

I think a Submersive has more than a 3db advantage over a single Rythmik so I think you would have to co-locate the Rythmiks.

I also could be wrong, and to be honest Rythmik is one of the few companies that I haven't heard any of their subs.
carp is online now  
post #19 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 09:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bhazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 2,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
LOVE my SubM, but the best money is an object sub would be a passive Captivator and a good used amp at 2000+ watts bridged... as long as you can EQ the sub somehow.
bhazard is offline  
post #20 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 10:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DS-21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

Since I'm still trying to figure out why so few companies use servos besides Rythmik...i'd like to ask how that factors in here. The FV15 is the only one that has a servo; wouldnt that give it an inherent advantage since neither of the other 2 have it?

No, the servo would give it an inherent disadvantage.

The servo, at least as executed by Rythmik, creates a bigger problem (limited top-end extension) than it solves (less 2d order distortion, which is perceptually more or less irrelevant, down low).

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
Multichannel music (and video) urban loft living room system 
DS-21 is offline  
post #21 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 12:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jedimastergrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 42
I own a rythmik f12se. I also attended the blind gtg at archaeas which included the subm and cap.

The subm and cap are simply more pleasing to listen to than the rythmik in my opinion. But there is nothing "wrong" with the sound of the rythmik. I would like to hear a rythmik with more output and I wonder how that would level the playing field.

Subm vs cap is just preference and you can't go wrong. I preferred the sealed sound for music but for movies it was much closer. It was pretty hard to even tell the difference between the top 4 subs.
jedimastergrant is offline  
post #22 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 12:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JHAz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

No, the servo would give it an inherent disadvantage.

The servo, at least as executed by Rythmik, creates a bigger problem (limited top-end extension) than it solves (less 2d order distortion, which is perceptually more or less irrelevant, down low).

This does not appear to be true based on the fact that the newer amps show flat response out to 200 Hz or higher if you use the correct input. I think the low pass on the Rythmik amps was implemented for reasons other than to account for the servo.

FWIW, I'm agnostic WRT servo systems in egeneral, but I note it appears that Rythmik and ohters have produced servo subs that perform quite well.
JHAz is offline  
post #23 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 01:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
capecodorthopod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: cape cod
Posts: 1,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post


I agree, I've heard that the ep4000 amp powering a passive Cap is similar to a Cap 1000. Archaea if you were in my room when I was comparing that to a Submersive I'm betting you would have picked the Cap especially on movies which would mean you would like the Cap 1000 more too.

I believe the Cap1000 has a different driver than the powered and passive Caps. Jeff's website has the 1k's xmax @ 20mm and the other Caps @ 30mm.
The Cap 1k is still an amazing performer/dollar though.
If one's space isn't too large and they want duals Cap 1k's may make the most sense for those preferring ported.
Tim
capecodorthopod is offline  
post #24 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 01:40 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,204
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

I believe the Cap1000 has a different driver than the powered and passive Caps. Jeff's website has the 1k's xmax @ 20mm and the other Caps @ 30mm.
The Cap 1k is still an amazing performer/dollar though.
If one's space isn't too large and they want duals Cap 1k's may make the most sense for those preferring ported.
Tim

Yes, we know they are different but they sound the same with one having less max output. We are only talking about .79 inches of total excursion less so what Carp was saying if people used the EP-4000 which is a 2000 watt amp it would be using 3 dBs less output than a full 4000 watt powered Cap so they would be about the same in output and sound minus the one band PEQ on the Cap1000 plate amp.
MKtheater is online now  
post #25 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 02:18 PM
Senior Member
 
kwarny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

No, the servo would give it an inherent disadvantage.

The servo, at least as executed by Rythmik, creates a bigger problem (limited top-end extension) than it solves (less 2d order distortion, which is perceptually more or less irrelevant, down low).

You said this is another thread. Are you saying that because of Audioholics max burst CEA tests? I'm wondering where you get your information because Ilkka's test shows low upper harmonic distortion and Rythmiks site shows that it decreases 3rd, 4th, and 5th order harmonic distortion more while producing less sideband energy. Brian has said multiple times most of the Rythmik's harmonic distortion is 2nd order and that it is not objectionable.

The Rythmik is -3 dB at 200 Hz if not using the lpf. You also know that the Rythmiks are free from time variant distortion if the amplifier is not clipping but you do not state that. BTW, the Rythmik DS1200 and DS1501 driver have less inductance than the Aura NS15 in the bass frequencies. You have been directly involved in discussions involving the upper end, time variant distortion, and inductance but you only state lower 2nd order distortion used in a Max output test . Harmonic distortion is only one dimension of distortion.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge - Stephen Hawking

 

Kyle Bosso - SOB

kwarny is offline  
post #26 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 03:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
qguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 878
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Not sure how a reduced top end extension would be disadvantage...who would use 200 hz on a sub even 120 hz is a bit too high IMHO


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

You said this is another thread. Are you saying that because of Audioholics max burst CEA tests? I'm wondering where you get your information because Ilkka's test shows low upper harmonic distortion and Rythmiks site shows that it decreases 3rd, 4th, and 5th order harmonic distortion more while producing less sideband energy. Brian has said multiple times most of the Rythmik's harmonic distortion is 2nd order and that it is not objectionable.

The Rythmik is -3 dB at 200 Hz if not using the lpf. You also know that the Rythmiks are free from time variant distortion if the amplifier is not clipping but you do not state that. BTW, the Rythmik DS1200 and DS1501 driver have less inductance than the Aura NS15 in the bass frequencies. You have been directly involved in discussions involving the upper end, time variant distortion, and inductance but you only state lower 2nd order distortion used in a Max output test . Harmonic distortion is only one dimension of distortion.

qguy is offline  
post #27 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 03:58 PM
Senior Member
 
kwarny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post

Not sure how a reduced top end extension would be disadvantage...who would use 200 hz on a sub even 120 hz is a bit too high IMHO

Those that use the Geddes mult-sub approach to smooth out 100-300 Hz. There are many ways to achieve a goal. Some just think there is only way and all the other methods are inferior. After listening to speakers and then looking at the drivers spec. sheet, I generally prefer woofers with less capacitance and more control. It is best to audition as much as you can in the same setting and then do this at multiple locations to figure out your preference.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge - Stephen Hawking

 

Kyle Bosso - SOB

kwarny is offline  
post #28 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 05:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Reefdvr27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cape May, NJ
Posts: 2,222
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 289
I was on the Funk Audio Site and the FunkAudio 18.3 is a sub I would like to hear. It is also a beauty! I could see that being a contender. The 18.0 is another.
Reefdvr27 is online now  
post #29 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 05:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
KMFDMvsEnya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 1,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Correct me if I am wrong here but doesn't DS-21 have a post history of an inexplicable and irrational bias and axe to grind against all things Rythmik?

Best Regards
KvE

Politics is like a corral, no matter where you are you'll always be shovelling it.

KMFDMvsEnya is online now  
post #30 of 93 Old 05-10-2012, 10:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DS-21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

This does not appear to be true based on the fact that the newer amps show flat response out to 200 Hz or higher if you use the correct input. I think the low pass on the Rythmik amps was implemented for reasons other than to account for the servo.

I haven't seen third-party data showing that. If there is third-party data showing that, then I'll change my tune.

And it's worth noting that the "base frequency response" Josh Ricci measured at the "120Hz" crossover setting rolled off significantly earlier. Whether you want to attribute that to poor quality control in the amp, or poor basic design is, I suppose, a judgment call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

BTW, the Rythmik DS1200 and DS1501 driver have less inductance than the Aura NS15 in the bass frequencies.

BS. Or, show data to prove it.

What the actual number is doesn't matter. What matters is how it affects the driver's performance. The NS15, like any bass driver suitable for use in a high-fidelity system, has no inductive hump. The Rythmik likewise shows no inductive hump. I suspect the Rythmik driver without the servo nonsense is sufficiently low in inductance for it to be a non-factor between the two drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

Correct me if I am wrong here but doesn't DS-21 have a post history of an inexplicable and irrational bias and axe to grind against all things Rythmik?

Best Regards
KvE

No, I have an explicable and rational bias against things that are dumb.

But yes, I do think Brian Ding is a flake. He has written on this forum that changing brands of "interconnects" will change the sound of his subs. No sensible or thoughtful person can hold that position. Only, well, a flake can.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
Multichannel music (and video) urban loft living room system 
DS-21 is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Fv15hp Subwoofer

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off