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post #91 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

The point that you are missing is that you don't need subs expirience infrasounds. I don't need infrasounds to enjoy movies and music. When I go to the movies and concerts, guess what, no infrasounds. It has been stated that most theater subs only go down to about 30hz on average. I'm not disappointed because the movies lack infrasonics, I might be disappointed the movie was bad. I think the vast majority of people are like that.

Infrasonics are little AVS trend that few people care for or need.

The only thing infrasounds ulimately does, overtime, is hasten hearing loss.

No one is saying you NEED a more capable sub to enjoy a movie or music. What we're saying is that it adds that much more to the music/movie experience.

I think a lot of people feel the way you do because they havent experienced an actual sub capable of delivering low clean bass.

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post #92 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 09:15 AM
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Archaea, there are no infrasonics in any movie that can cause hearing problems, it would have to be really high in spl's to do that. Trust me, movies are not recorded high enough to do so. The only way to get true infrasonics is having a sealed sub system that has a LT circuit with boost down low, if any of the subs listened to(sealed) were not boosted enough down low to reach single digits they did not experience them properly.
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post #93 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 09:29 AM
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You guys are bass addicts and clearly afflicted with an obsession of the mind and a phenomenon of craving. It seems you don’t have wives or friends tell you turn the bass down (and I only have dual DD-15’s). That's the case with addicts....they end up alone with their obession. So you sit there in isolation slicing up a movie for the bass to fulfill your cravings, slave to a hunger for more bass.

Start with this:

I am powerless of over bass and it is making my life unmanageable (because I only buy movies with big bass, spend too much money on bass, and spend too much of my lifespan on forums discussing bass.)

You're powerless and can't help yourselves. I get it. You have no choice. The insanity is that Auditor55 is trying to change the perspective of people who have no choice but to need more bass.
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post #94 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

The point that you are missing is that you don't need subs expirience infrasounds. I don't need infrasounds to enjoy movies and music. When I go to the movies and concerts, guess what, no infrasounds. It has been stated that most theater subs only go down to about 30hz on average. I'm not disappointed because the movies lack infrasonics, I might be disappointed the movie was bad. I think the vast majority of people are like that.

You just pointed out why I as well as many others here vastly prefer watching movies at our homes rather than in commercial theaters.
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post #95 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Archaea, there are no infrasonics in any movie that can cause hearing problems, it would have to be really high in spl's to do that. Trust me, movies are not recorded high enough to do so. The only way to get true infrasonics is having a sealed sub system that has a LT circuit with boost down low, if any of the subs listened to(sealed) were not boosted enough down low to reach single digits they did not experience them properly.

Did you mean me?

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #96 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post


The point that you are missing is that you don't need subs expirience infrasounds. I don't need infrasounds to enjoy movies and music. When I go to the movies and concerts, guess what, no infrasounds. It has been stated that most theater subs only go down to about 30hz on average. I'm not disappointed because the movies lack infrasonics, I might be disappointed the movie was bad. I think the vast majority of people are like that.

Infrasonics are little AVS trend that few people care for or need.

The only thing infrasounds ulimately does, overtime, is hasten hearing loss.

The sun causes me to get skin cancer over time too...shame

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #97 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Did you mean me?

About the hearing damage yes, the other statement is a generalization. I have had many systems and the only time I could feel the infrasonics the best is when I boosted the low end of a sealed system or with the DTS-10's going to 9hz in room and they had a rising response from 20hz. The sealed system actually felt stronger once I bosted the low end. I used to run 10-12 dBs hot before to get the effect I wanted on my systems but once I boosted the low end on my last sealed system(first time I did this) running 4 dB's hot felt just as strong as 10-12 dB's before, if that makes any sense. I am getting close finishing my new system to test which should have more low end but less midbass.

What a second, did I respond to the wrong guy? I think I meant Auditor55.
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post #98 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 10:23 AM
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Not very many movies are excellent. That makes it even worst.

Alot of movies really stink !!!! I'm even tired of the theaters around where i live..... I purchase the BR later and discover what a great movie it was after all....


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post #99 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 10:48 AM
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I once had a system in my car that would produce SPL levels in excess of 120dB starting in the single digits.

I listened to sine sweeps going from 1 to 60Hz(peaked at about 141dB@17Hz)

It was hard to breath/swallow but quite the experience.

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post #100 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris Schempp View Post

I once had a system in my car that would produce SPL levels in excess of 120dB starting in the single digits.

I listened to sine sweeps going from 1 to 60Hz(peaked at about 141dB@17Hz)

It was hard to breath/swallow but quite the experience.

A perfect example of what I was referring to in my earlier post. Thanks for your honesty. That's the first step towards recovery.
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post #101 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

carp...

We should do a test.

In your experience between the Submersive and Cap I doubt the subs were 100% calibrated to the exact same frequency response line.

I'd be an interesting test to try to get two subs to the "exact same" frequency response line - using a DSP and see if they sounded the exact same...

In easy reach we now have

Epik Empires
SVS PB12+
JTR Captivators
Seaton Submersives
HSU VTF-15H
Crystal Acoustic THX-12Sub
Infinity HPS-1000


between you, counsil, luke kamp, stitch1, randy bessinger, and myself. Problem is none of these subs necessarily align in type to be close competitors. Perhaps the SVS and the HSU might be the closest alignment and capability match??? Or perhaps the Infinity HPS-1000 and Epic Empire???

I would be very interested to try that, however in the mean time you convinced me in another thread that the small differences between the response curves at the blind GTG were not enough to account for my preference to the Submersive. I'd love to really test that theory though.


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post #102 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 11:21 AM
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Full bandwidth. Thats what its all about. If its in there, i want to hear it, and feel it, period..... if its not, then the director didnt want it in there.

Now, how odd is it to find fanatics in an audio/video forum..Bahahahahaha. Where the hell else would we go, where would we turn with all our questions, certainly not someone who has no need for a full bandwidth playback system. The last thing i would need is someone asking me, " but why do you want a sealed system that goes into single digits ". Because i can, and btw, its fun. Do we all remember fun. If i wanted so-so i would watch movies in my wifes HT or the living room.....yeah, she has her own !!!! I rock, we have 3.

Peace Out Bass Heads


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post #103 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

The point that you are missing is that you don't need subs expirience infrasounds. I don't need infrasounds to enjoy movies and music. When I go to the movies and concerts, guess what, no infrasounds. It has been stated that most theater subs only go down to about 30hz on average. I'm not disappointed because the movies lack infrasonics, I might be disappointed the movie was bad. I think the vast majority of people are like that.

Infrasonics are little AVS trend that few people care for or need.

The only thing infrasounds ulimately does, overtime, is hasten hearing loss.

Hey man, if you don't like ULF, it's all good, no ones saying you have to like it but you are never going to convince anyone on here of that. Your talking for the sake of trolling, I mean IMO it IS kinda funny because everyone other than 1 guy on this thread disagrees with you, at the very least, that should show that you are the minority in this case. Not that theres anything wrong with that, it just is what it is.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #104 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

You guys are bass addicts and clearly afflicted with an obsession of the mind and a phenomenon of craving. It seems you don't have wives or friends tell you turn the bass down (and I only have dual DD-15's). That's the case with addicts....they end up alone with their obession. So you sit there in isolation slicing up a movie for the bass to fulfill your cravings, slave to a hunger for more bass.

Start with this:

I am powerless of over bass and it is making my life unmanageable (because I only buy movies with big bass, spend too much money on bass, and spend too much of my lifespan on forums discussing bass.)

You're powerless and can't help yourselves. I get it. You have no choice. The insanity is that Auditor55 is trying to change the perspective of people who have no choice but to need more bass.

I'm sorry but that has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever read in my life....

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #105 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 11:54 AM
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I'm sorry but that has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever read in my life....

I thought it was sarcasm.

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post #106 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Full bandwidth. Thats what its all about. If its in there, i want to hear it, and feel it, period.


EXACTLY!

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Originally Posted by Chris Schempp View Post

I thought it was sarcasm.

+1

I also thought he was being sarcatic. At least I hope he was.

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post #107 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 12:35 PM
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I'm sorry but that has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever read in my life....

It was sarcasm. Meant to make you smile. Did you really think I had a break with reality and I thought was seriously proselytizing down in the streets where the bass addicts hang out, hoping to save a few souls?

To paraphrase Nancy Reagan, "Just say no to bass"!

Mash the keyboard now!!!

We're all audioaddicts here...even Auditor55.

Sorry the humor didn't brighten your day.
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post #108 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 12:37 PM
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It was sarcasm. Meant to make you smile. Did you really think I was think I was seriously proselytizing down in the streets where the bass addicts hang out, hoping to save a few souls?

To paraphrase Nancy Reagan, "Just say no to bass"!

Mash the keyboard now!!!

Man. You were kidding? I was starting to feel dirty.....

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post #109 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 12:41 PM
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Man. You were kidding? I was starting to feel dirty.....

lol I didn't mean to do that. It's friday and I'm losing my friggin' mind watching people get rich off of FB while I toil away.
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post #110 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

The point that you are missing is that you don't need subs expirience infrasounds. I don't need infrasounds to enjoy movies and music. When I go to the movies and concerts, guess what, no infrasounds. It has been stated that most theater subs only go down to about 30hz on average. I'm not disappointed because the movies lack infrasonics, I might be disappointed the movie was bad. I think the vast majority of people are like that.

Infrasonics are little AVS trend that few people care for or need.

The only thing infrasounds ulimately does, overtime, is hasten hearing loss.

Straw man. I'm not sure I've EVER enjoyed music more than I enjoyed, say, waiting for WHB in Kansas City to play Mitch Ryder's Devil With A Blue Dress/Good Golly Miss Molly before school each day when I was a young'un. Seemed to play in the morning at the same time, leaving me running up 50+ steps from the door to street level to catch my bus. On a cheap am radio aat might've had -6dB points of 200 and 2000 Hz, I had tons of musical enjoyment. I can, at lunch, enjoy a couple of minutes of some old tune that pops into my head on my laptop, which I know cannot put out anything audible below about 300 Hz.

That doesn't mean the fuller range reproduction is not superior reproduction, or that I should not desire fuller range reproduction when I can have it.

Be interesting to see that data upon which you base your conclusion that "few people" care fore whatever one is defining as infrasonics. It is wht it is. If it's practically nobody, why waste your breath?

Finally, I'm reasonably certain that if infrasonics were a hearing risk, the A weighting scale, widely used by OSHA and others in the worker protection arena, would not ignore most of what we call bass, let alone infrasonics.
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post #111 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 01:03 PM
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I would be very interested to try that, however in the mean time you convinced me in another thread that the small differences between the response curves at the blind GTG were not enough to account for my preference to the Submersive. I'd love to really test that theory though.

yeah - I don't think they were. I think you like the sound of the sealed subs! Because weren't all of your top favorites sealed even when blinded?

I still don't think a dB here or there should make much difference --- but we've never really tested trying to make absolutely identical FR curves. If we could achieve that - would they sound identical and you'd exhibit no preference?

As others mentioned, decay, overhang, etc could possibly still make enough of a difference that you might prefer one sound over the other even if the FR was identical??!! or not?

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #112 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 01:20 PM
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yeah - I don't think they were. I think you like the sound of the sealed subs! Because weren't all of your top favorites sealed even when blinded?

I still don't think a dB here or there should make much difference --- but we've never really tested trying to make absolutely identical FR curves. If we could achieve that - would they sound identical and you'd exhibit no preference?

As others mentioned, decay, overhang, etc could possibly still make enough of a difference that you might prefer one sound over the other even if the FR was identical??!! or not?

Other than the Submersive my favorite was the Cap sealed, but on the other hand I remember thinking sub D (CHT) was very boring for music and didn't do much for me and it's sealed so who knows. Also when Luke had his VTF-15 over in my room a long time ago I prefered it in it's ported setting than sealed.

Hey man, it's a long summer so I'll be game for testing out all kinds of stuff!!


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post #113 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 03:17 PM
 
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Straw man. I'm not sure I've EVER enjoyed music more than I enjoyed, say, waiting for WHB in Kansas City to play Mitch Ryder's Devil With A Blue Dress/Good Golly Miss Molly before school each day when I was a young'un. Seemed to play in the morning at the same time, leaving me running up 50+ steps from the door to street level to catch my bus. On a cheap am radio aat might've had -6dB points of 200 and 2000 Hz, I had tons of musical enjoyment. I can, at lunch, enjoy a couple of minutes of some old tune that pops into my head on my laptop, which I know cannot put out anything audible below about 300 Hz.

That doesn't mean the fuller range reproduction is not superior reproduction, or that I should not desire fuller range reproduction when I can have it.

Be interesting to see that data upon which you base your conclusion that "few people" care fore whatever one is defining as infrasonics. It is wht it is. If it's practically nobody, why waste your breath?

Finally, I'm reasonably certain that if infrasonics were a hearing risk, the A weighting scale, widely used by OSHA and others in the worker protection arena, would not ignore most of what we call bass, let alone infrasonics.

I read where Tom Nousaine once said that "until the summer of 2008 there was no such thing as a subwoofer." That was when he came upon the upon PB13-Ultra and the Epik Conquest.

His criteria is, if a sub can't produce reasonable output to 10 to 12.5 hz its not a subwoofer.

We know that is a ridiculous assertion . In view of Tom Nousaine's comments, it wasn't until 2008 that a true subwoofer hit the market. I think most people were fine without them. Not many folks were clamoring for infrasonic subwoofers. Here in the AVS, which represents an unusual group of people, are fanatically clamoring for infrasonic subs. It doesn't matter to AVS'er if very little content exist, I can tell that by some of the post here.

For example, if you live in an apartment, what would be the pratical purpose for owning an infrasonic sub? For the most part, you couldn't even use it without complaints from the neighbors. It becomes a waste and a poor investment depending on how much you paid for it. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't purchase a PB13 if I lived in an apartment.

The infrasonic is sub (with so little content) is pretty much regulated to the dedicated HT room, which is a niche within a niche, just like the front projection system.

BTW, there has been some debate regarding how much below 20hz content sound mixers are intentionally mixing into movie sound tracks.
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post #114 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 03:28 PM
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if you say so.......

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post #115 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 03:44 PM
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Auditor55, question for ya. What sort of movies do you like??

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post #116 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 03:55 PM
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I don't know about you guys, but deep bass doesn't actually help a movie for me. When I got my home theater going with some strong sub 20 hz output, I watched a bunch of bass heavy movies I wouldn't have watched otherwise, movies like Iron Man 2, the new Hulk movie, and a couple others. Strong deep bass is a fun novelty, but it just doesn't make a bad movie better, at least for me. I have my subs primarily for music, so I don't care very much, but if its sound effects you are interested in, there are better ways to get your kicks than slogging through some awful infantile movie whose sole purpose is to sell happy meals and action figures just to hear a few moments of deep bass. Try hooking up a keyboard synthesizer to your setup and have fun with some of the funkier bass voices, that is a hell of a lot of fun, at least for me.
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post #117 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post


For example, if you live in an apartment, what would be the pratical purpose for owning an infrasonic sub? For the most part, you couldn't even use it without complaints from the neighbors. It becomes a waist and a poor investment depending on how much you paid for it. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't purchase a PB13 if I lived in an apartment.

[/quote]

This part of your statement I can actually agree with. (Except that it' s a waste, not a waist.) Loud and deep bass capabilities and apartments with shared walls are a bad mix. You can't really prevent deep bass at useful levels from bleeding through common walls.

The rest of what you said is pretty much crap.
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post #118 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 04:05 PM
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I don't know about you guys, but deep bass doesn't actually help a movie for me. When I got my home theater going with some strong sub 20 hz output, I watched a bunch of bass heavy movies I wouldn't have watched otherwise, movies like Iron Man 2, the new Hulk movie, and a couple others. Strong deep bass is a fun novelty, but it just doesn't make a bad movie better, at least for me. I have my subs primarily for music, so I don't care very much, but if its sound effects you are interested in, there are better ways to get your kicks than slogging through some awful infantile movie whose sole purpose is to sell happy meals and action figures just to hear a few moments of deep bass. Try hooking up a keyboard synthesizer to your setup and have fun with some of the funkier bass voices, that is a hell of a lot of fun, at least for me.

Deep bass was about the only thing that made underworld enjoyable for me lol

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #119 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 04:13 PM
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Deep bass was about the only thing that made underworld enjoyable for me lol

Kate Beckinsale was the only thing that made Underworld enjoyable for me. I think you need to turn off your frontal lobe to enjoy these kinds of movies. I'm thinking about getting a lobotomy so I can enjoy them more.
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post #120 of 195 Old 05-18-2012, 04:29 PM
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Kate Beckinsale was the only thing that made Underworld enjoyable for me. I think you need to turn off your frontal lobe to enjoy these kinds of movies. I'm thinking about getting a lobotomy so I can enjoy them more.

She was soso lol

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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