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Old 06-20-2012, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lfe man View Post

Ok, i watched pretty much all of good scenes from dts dvd again and sure it is impressive bass movie, but still not quite there with those 5 star heavy hitters for quantity, so i added it to 4,5 star section.smile.gif

No wonder you didn't think the bass on U-571 was very impressive.
You used the fricking inferior DVD version, with lossy audio, to evaluate the bass!
WTF?!?!

Always use the blu-ray disc with "lossless audio" for movie bass evaluations.

I had U-571 on DVD and then upgraded to this flick on BD.
The difference is like night and day.
U-571 on blu-ray disc totally blows the DVD version out of the water (pun intended).

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Old 06-20-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

No wonder you didn't think the bass on U-571 was very impressive.
You used the fricking inferior DVD version, with lossy audio, to evaluate the bass!
WTF?!?!
Always use the blu-ray disc with "lossless audio" for movie bass evaluations.
I had U-571 on DVD and then upgraded to this flick on BD.
The difference is like night and day.
U-571 on blu-ray disc totally blows the DVD version out of the water (pun intended).
"Never bring a knife to a gun fight."

I don't believe the dvd vs blu-ray argument holds here. It may be a mastering difference? Check out Master and Commander on DVD then Blu-ray and see if you still agree with your statement above:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1257990/master-and-commander-scene-4-subwoofer-test-dvd-vs-bluray
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post


No $hit. No offense, but anyone NOT blown away by WOTW needs to get their sub(s), hearing, and/or nervous system checked out.

Still king of the mountain, AFAIC. And I'm "only" good to 15hz, lol.

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Old 06-20-2012, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

No $hit. No offense, but anyone NOT blown away by WOTW needs to get their sub(s), hearing, and/or nervous system checked out.
Still king of the mountain, AFAIC. And I'm "only" good to 15hz, lol.
James

+1

The Tripod emergence scene in War of the Worlds remains the standard for us bassaholics.

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Old 06-20-2012, 10:17 AM
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+2

When the neighbor allows his dog to constantly bark, then he gets the pod emergence scene smile.gif.

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Old 06-20-2012, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

No wonder you didn't think the bass on U-571 was very impressive.
You used the fricking inferior DVD version, with lossy audio, to evaluate the bass!
WTF?!?!
Always use the blu-ray disc with "lossless audio" for movie bass evaluations.
I had U-571 on DVD and then upgraded to this flick on BD.
The difference is like night and day.
U-571 on blu-ray disc totally blows the DVD version out of the water (pun intended).
"Never bring a knife to a gun fight."

Ehhh...

Even as a die hard audio guy that fully supports uncompressed and lossless audio...even I can see that as a silly statement. I'm sorry but lossless audio does not exactly enhance bass reproduction. If anything, they might be identical. However, I would recommend upgrading to Blu-ray just because. biggrin.gif However, the bass will not be the part that is upgraded. Sorry.

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Old 06-20-2012, 11:28 AM
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Search the forums. Hundreds of suggestions in many threads.
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Old 06-30-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick****achi View Post

99.9999% of HT can't reproduce the pod emergence scene's full bandwidth with enough spl to fully appreciate it.

Which means 99.99999% of the community has never watched WOTW, really. wink.gif

I would love to be in a home theater, with quad Seaton Sound SubMersive HP subwoofers,
"experiencing" that scene. cool.gifcool.gif

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Old 06-30-2012, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Hopefully next month I'll have bass shakers installed an rerun that scene with chairs rumbling AND subs turned up muhahahaha.
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

No $hit. No offense, but anyone NOT blown away by WOTW needs to get their sub(s), hearing, and/or nervous system checked out.
Still king of the mountain, AFAIC. And I'm "only" good to 15hz, lol.
James
I've got a single Rythmik FV15HP and I am NOT blown away by WOTW...perhaps it's due to my large space of ~8,000 cu ft (living hall & dining area combined). Subwoofer is about 10 feet from me. Watched the movie at -10dB master volume with subwoofer +3dB hot.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

I've got a single Rythmik FV15HP and I am NOT blown away by WOTW...perhaps it's due to my large space of ~8,000 cu ft (living hall & dining area combined). Subwoofer is about 10 feet from me. Watched the movie at -10dB master volume with subwoofer +3dB hot.

WOTW has massive bass in the pods emerging scene. If you aren't hearing that, you should check your frequency response using an SPL meter. You are definitely missing something there.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:42 AM
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At 4500 cu. ft. my VTF-15H rattles the room with WOTW.
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:59 PM
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Does anyone know the name of the person or persons, that mixed the sound for WOTW?

I would like to see what other fiicks they worked on.

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Old 07-01-2012, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

I've got a single Rythmik FV15HP and I am NOT blown away by WOTW...perhaps it's due to my large space of ~8,000 cu ft (living hall & dining area combined). Subwoofer is about 10 feet from me. Watched the movie at -10dB master volume with subwoofer +3dB hot.
If WOTW doesn't blow you away and everything is set up properly then you're more than likely sitting in a null. WOTW is a killer for bass.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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Old 07-01-2012, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

Does anyone know the name of the person or persons, that mixed the sound for WOTW?
I would like to see what other fiicks they worked on.

Randy Thom
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

WOTW has massive bass in the pods emerging scene. If you aren't hearing that, you should check your frequency response using an SPL meter. You are definitely missing something there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

If WOTW doesn't blow you away and everything is set up properly then you're more than likely sitting in a null. WOTW is a killer for bass.

Here's a REW sweep (starts from 20Hz). I know that there's a dip at 32Hz. But is that super serious in missing out the LFE in WOTW?
358
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:38 PM
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Here's a speclab graph which is more accurate to what many of us at home are experiencing.

lightning strikes:

625

pod emergence scene:

218

174

M. Enois Duarte
High-Def Digest
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Here's a REW sweep (starts from 20Hz). I know that there's a dip at 32Hz. But is that super serious in missing out the LFE in WOTW?
358
Unless I'm reading the graph wrong you have a big dip at 32Hz and a really big role off at 20Hz. It looks like your 20Hz is at 65Hz and your say 23hz is at 83Hz. That's a huge difference. It appears that your sub is rolling off very steeply from 20Hz down and that would explain all the bass you're not getting. That combined with the big dip at 32Hz will cause a big loss in bass. For comparison here's what mine looks like with my VTF-15H.

341

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Old 07-01-2012, 09:03 PM
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@ Legairre
My sweep starts at 20Hz, hence the steep roll-off. I have carried out sweep that starts at lower frequency before. 15Hz to 20Hz hovers around 75dB. My only concern is the 32Hz dip.

Your SMS-1 display is not accurate at all due to the excessive 1/3 octave smoothing. Do read this.
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Old 07-01-2012, 09:14 PM
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Thanks I'm aware of the 1/3 octave smoothing of the SMS-1 but before getting the SMS-1 I used to use REW and the BFD 1124 and I still didn't have any significant dips or nulls and my sub 20Hz was still similar without any steep roll off at 20Hz with the VTF-15H set to Q 0.7. The SMS-1 is just so much easier and quicker to use then the BFD so the switch was well worth it. If your 15-20Hz is 75dB it's still about 8dB lower then the 23Hz which is a lot. Since your only concerned with the 32Hz dip can try to raise it and if it won't raise it's a null. Like others WOTW for me has more bass than any other movie. It really does hit hard has hell.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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Old 07-02-2012, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Randy Thom

Thanks!

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Old 07-02-2012, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Like others WOTW for me has more bass than any other movie.
It really does hit hard has hell.

I love sampling the Tripod emergence scene from WOTW.
No other movie scene puts a bigger smile on my face.

EVERYTIME I play that scene, I swear that I notice new cracks in my ceiling.
And I only have dual SVS PB12-NSD subs in my HT!

I can only imagine, what that scene would "feel" like, with four Seaton Sound
Submersive HP subwoofers in the room.

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Old 07-02-2012, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

@ Legairre
My sweep starts at 20Hz, hence the steep roll-off. I have carried out sweep that starts at lower frequency before. 15Hz to 20Hz hovers around 75dB. My only concern is the 32Hz dip.
Your SMS-1 display is not accurate at all due to the excessive 1/3 octave smoothing. Do read this.

As you can see from the waterfalls, WOTW has a lot of energy from 10 to 20 hz and even below 10 hz at one point. What is your low end roll off? Also how loud can your system get? I don't know what the dynamic range on your system is like, but if that is a 75 db sweep, it doesn't mean too much unless your system has the horse power to back it up.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

As you can see from the waterfalls, WOTW has a lot of energy from 10 to 20 hz and even below 10 hz at one point. What is your low end roll off? Also how loud can your system get? I don't know what the dynamic range on your system is like, but if that is a 75 db sweep, it doesn't mean too much unless your system has the horse power to back it up.
You can't plot below 15Hz with the SMS-1 but when I had the BFD the roll off wasn't bad until 12 or 13Hz with the VTF-15H. As for dynamic range I power my system with 3 separate Rotel amps. A Rotel RMB-1095(200x5) powers the LCR with the L\R bi-amped. For my L\R surrounds I use a Rotel RB-1050 amp(100x2) and another Rotel RB-1050(100x2) to power my L\R center backs so I have plenty of dynamic range. With running 1400 watts of amp power with the amps on two dedicated 20 amp circuits, one for the RMB-1095 and another for the two RB-1050s(rest of the system is on another 20 amp circuit) if maxed out I should be able to hit some where around 120dB with the seven main speakers. I've never maxed it out because my ears cry uncle way before the system does so I'm estimating. So far with my current setup distortion/clipping or compression has never been a problem, though it was a problem back in the day when I just used a receiver to power everything.

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Old 07-02-2012, 08:59 AM
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@Skylinestar is there any chance that the dynamic range control (DRC) is engaged in your recever, pre pro or DVD/BD player and limiting your LFE range.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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Old 07-03-2012, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

I would love to be in a home theater, with quad Seaton Sound SubMersive HP subwoofers,
"experiencing" that scene. cool.gifcool.gif
Rotary subwoofers would be legendary....

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Old 07-03-2012, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

WOTW has massive bass in the pods emerging scene. If you aren't hearing that, you should check your frequency response using an SPL meter. You are definitely missing something there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

If WOTW doesn't blow you away and everything is set up properly then you're more than likely sitting in a null. WOTW is a killer for bass.

Here's a REW sweep (starts from 20Hz). I know that there's a dip at 32Hz. But is that super serious in missing out the LFE in WOTW?
358

Hi SLS,

 

When posting graphs its helpful if you limit your y-axis to 60db span.  Its common convention and helps others compare graphs equally.  As your prob aware you can make the graphs look quite different with scale on the axes.

 

I would bet the farm that the dip is room related rather than sub output related.  Forget boosting that much of a dip.  Sub placement is the only weapon you have for that other than some acoutstic treatment or more subs.  Take a look at your group delay.  I'll bet you have a huge swing centered at the dip region. 

 

Your ported sub is tuned too high to reproduce most of the heavy stuff below twenty that everyone is raving about.  There are still some good hits above 20, but having heard the flick on a ~19Hz ported setup and one that can dig deep its understandable why you feel its lacking. 

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Old 07-03-2012, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

As you can see from the waterfalls, WOTW has a lot of energy from 10 to 20 hz and even below 10 hz at one point. What is your low end roll off? Also how loud can your system get? I don't know what the dynamic range on your system is like, but if that is a 75 db sweep, it doesn't mean too much unless your system has the horse power to back it up.
You can't plot below 15Hz with the SMS-1 but when I had the BFD the roll off wasn't bad until 12 or 13Hz with the VTF-15H. As for dynamic range I power my system with 3 separate Rotel amps. A Rotel RMB-1095(200x5) powers the LCR with the L\R bi-amped. For my L\R surrounds I use a Rotel RB-1050 amp(100x2) and another Rotel RB-1050(100x2) to power my L\R center backs so I have plenty of dynamic range. With running 1400 watts of amp power with the amps on two dedicated 20 amp circuits, one for the RMB-1095 and another for the two RB-1050s(rest of the system is on another 20 amp circuit) if maxed out I should be able to hit some where around 120dB with the seven main speakers. I've never maxed it out because my ears cry uncle way before the system does so I'm estimating. So far with my current setup distortion/clipping or compression has never been a problem, though it was a problem back in the day when I just used a receiver to power everything.

 

Amp Power is only 1/2 of the equation.  A system's dynamic range potentially has more to do with the efficiency of the speakers rather than the power on tap.  Whats the efficiency of your speakers?  I only ask since you went into such great depth on your amps and not a peep about the other half of the output equation.

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Old 07-03-2012, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick****achi View Post

Amp Power is only 1/2 of the equation.  A system's dynamic range potentially has more to do with the efficiency of the speakers rather than the power on tap.  Whats the efficiency of your speakers?  I only ask since you went into such great depth on your amps and not a peep about the other half of the output equation.
Thanks and an excellent point. My Monitor Audio speakers have a sensitivity of 91dB. Also don't forget the distance matters as well. Seating is 12 feet from the mains and 8 feet from all the surrounds and backs. At that distance, with amp power, and speaker sensitivity I'm still guessing around 120dB which is more than I'll ever need.

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Old 07-03-2012, 01:54 PM
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Where do you get this 120 dBs number from? All the speakers playing together would not sum that high and it is very rare for a movie to play 0 dBFS into all speakers at the same time anyways(subs don't count). All one needs is the ability to play 105 dBs from each speaker at the LP for as loud as it gets for HT purposes. The only ways to tell if your speakers are compressing is to compare them to a speaker that won't and listen for the differences or even better, measure them. Now of course using sine waves is harder than source material so if one's speakers can play 105 dBs at the seats with a sine wave sweep than a movie is a piece of cake. First you have to measure a 95 dB, then a 100 dBs first to see if the frequency changes when you turn it up. If it does, it is compressing.

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