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post #1 of 61 Old 05-29-2012, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Let me apologize in advance - this is yet another, "what sub should I purchase" thread. My current sub, a Rocket UFW-10, has served me well, but it's time for me to move up. It was originally purchased for a dual purpose system that was primarily used for music. I needed something small and musical that could be easily hidden in our living room. Things have changed considerably in the last 5 years, and now I want something for home theater duty. I've been reading this forum thoroughly for about 3 months, trying to decide what to buy, and I'm close to my purchase date.

Before going any further, let me clearly state, DIY is not an option. I'm the kind of guy who hires a handyman to hang blinds (embarrassing, but true...).

Without further ado, here are answers to the prerequisite questions:

1. Your budget: $1700 delivered (no sales tax here in Oregon). This is already stretching my limits, so please don't recommend anything much more than this. I *may* be able to go another $100, but that's only if something spectacular happens (i.e., Seaton decides to hold a major sale).

I'm leaning toward the Epik Empire, since I can get two in this price. Obviously, if people think 1 sub (say a ULS-15) would fit my needs, I'd be more than happy to spend less money.

Please don't recommend that I buy 1 sub now and save for another one later. This purchase is a reward to myself for meeting a 5 year goal in 4 years. If I get 2 subs now and within budget, great! If I purchase 1 sub now, that's what I'm going to live with for the foreseeable future. Any money saved will be happily repurposed.

2. Size requirements/limits: Not too much of an issue. This is a dedicated room, and my wife enjoys a good sounding system. There's room for large boxes if need be.

3. Room dimensions: I have a strange room that the previous owner converted from a garage. It's a 13x20 rectangle. However, the ceiling slopes up from ~6.5' high at the front end (with the TV and front speakers) to 12.5' right behind the seating area. Then there's a ledge that comes straight down. After that the room levels off at an 8' ceiling. All in all, it's about 2400^3', with some weird angles.

I don't currently have a good room correction solution, but I plan to get one soon, whether I get 1 sub or two. I also want to look into room treatments, but I need to better understand what needs to be tamed, and how to tame it. That'll come (hopefully) in the next 6 months.

4. Primary uses: This is a dedicated HT room. No music, unless it's part of a move. Concert Blu Rays are very rare, although a number of our favorite shows (like Treme) and movies (like The Big Lebowski) feature music quite centrally.

5. Listening habits: I'm not sure if my listening habits would be considered loud or soft or in between. Last night I put on the opening sequence of Dark Knight with the processor at normal listening volume. In the second chapter, when the Batmobile fires the missile in the parking garage, it registered about 84 dB on my RS SPL meter. Occasionally I'll turn things up a little louder.

6. Appearance requirements: I could care less. The room will be dark.

7. Timeframe: I plan to buy around mid July. I don't mind waiting a bit if something awesome is in the wings or on back order.

Thanks for any help!
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post #2 of 61 Old 05-29-2012, 10:08 PM
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Just from your title I was going to recommend two Empires, fits nicely at that price point and will sound awesome. I'm prejudiced, don't have my second...yet. I also wondered if you could get a used Seaton, I saw one around here for around that much once locally but didn't commit and was gone by the time I convinced myself...oh well.

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post #3 of 61 Old 05-29-2012, 10:34 PM
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You can get used SVS PB13s for that price. Two Epik Empires would be sweet as well. You might also consider the Rythmik FV15HP.
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post #4 of 61 Old 05-29-2012, 10:36 PM
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Rythmik FV15HP at $1274 + shipping

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...rythmik-fv15hp
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post #5 of 61 Old 05-29-2012, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

1. Your budget: $1700 delivered (no sales tax here in Oregon). This is already stretching my limits, so please don't recommend anything much more than this. I *may* be able to go another $100, but that's only if something spectacular happens (i.e., Seaton decides to hold a major sale).

Shoot, so close

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php...=91839.0;imode

(no idea how recent that listing is though)
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post #6 of 61 Old 05-29-2012, 10:59 PM
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chase ss-18.2, dual empires, dual outlaws, etc etc.
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post #7 of 61 Old 05-29-2012, 11:00 PM
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if that submersive is still available id snap it up stat!
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post #8 of 61 Old 05-29-2012, 11:10 PM
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Man, if only you could convince yourself that the shipping charges were something separate from the purchase... Dual VTF 15's are $1700 + $280 shipping

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15Dual.html

The Empires are a good choice otherwise.
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post #9 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 08:00 AM
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I am about to pull the trigger on this myself. 2 HSU 15's.


http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15Dual.html


The shipping is somewhat high, but consider it's for 2 Subs. I was planning to use the "upgrade within a year" option from SVS to replace my PB12-NSD with a PB13-Ultra, but their shipping charge of ONE PB13 is $300,- to NY. Absurdly high.


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post #10 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 08:21 AM
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Quote:


$1700 delivered ... 2400^3' ... dedicated HT room. No music, unless it's part of a mov[i]e.

Two ChaseHT SS-18.1 passive subs w/ a Dayton SA1000 amp will seriously rock your HT space, and they should come in at under $1,700, shipped.

(Let the inevitable trolling begin! )
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post #11 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 08:22 AM
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Buy a Dayton Omnimic and be wayyyyy ahead of the game !!!!! Nothing worse than buying a sub, or better yet two subs and no real way to get them dialed in.

There is really no way to dial in two subs without measurement gear, you can go less expensive with REW, but some type of gear is needed......
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post #12 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 08:47 AM
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I second what Eljaycanuck recommended if you want duals, or a single CHT SS-18.2. Just one of these bad boys will fill your room and then some plus come under your price point. Dual 18" drivers in a 40 inch tall cabinet, no regrets.
LL
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post #13 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 09:13 AM
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I overlooked the 2400^3 part. For that small room you really don't need 2 subs. Of course you get better frequency response but I don't think it's quiet necessary. I used to have my current PB12-NSD in a room that size it was more than powerful enough. Had to turn the sub down. At that size any single subwoofer should be powerful enough at 1700 dollars.



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post #14 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 09:24 AM
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SVS PC13 ultra would be awesome IMHO.

Moving Heaven and Earth one Sub at a Time.
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post #15 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 09:26 AM
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In that size room one VTF-15H will be more than adequate my area is twice that and it still impresses me and the wife not to mention the running options.
The money you save could be put towards an AVR with XT32 room correction and right now a Denon would be hard to beat (4311).
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post #16 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 09:46 AM
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What about the JTR Captivator 1000 passive version for $1199, then buy a Behringer amp?

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post #17 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Buy a Dayton Omnimic and be wayyyyy ahead of the game !!!!! Nothing worse than buying a sub, or better yet two subs and no real way to get them dialed in.

There is really no way to dial in two subs without measurement gear, you can go less expensive with REW, but some type of gear is needed......

That is the plan. I'll get the mic with the sub(s) and any room correction/eq solution I purchase. It will all come at the same time.
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post #18 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehza View Post

I overlooked the 2400^3 part. For that small room you really don't need 2 subs. Of course you get better frequency response but I don't think it's quiet necessary. I used to have my current PB12-NSD in a room that size it was more than powerful enough. Had to turn the sub down. At that size any single subwoofer should be powerful enough at 1700 dollars.

With the sloping ceiling and number of weird angles in my room, I would think 2 subs would help a great deal with evening out the frequency response. Like you said, I'm pretty sure 1 of any of the quality subs mentioned in this thread will provide the SPL I need to ~20 Hz. It's the smoother response that 2 subs will give me that had me considering the Dual Empires.
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post #19 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the monster reply. I'm going to try to respond to a lot of the excellent suggestions in on big post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Two ChaseHT SS-18.1 passive subs w/ a Dayton SA1000 amp will seriously rock your HT space, and they should come in at under $1,700, shipped.

(Let the inevitable trolling begin! )

My (perhaps unfair) impression of the Chase subs is that they are brutes designed for people with large rooms or the need for max SPL. This may be irrational, but I feel two 18's would overpower my room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

You can get used SVS PB13s for that price

Quote:
Originally Posted by travis-g View Post

SVS PC13 ultra would be awesome IMHO.

As Travis points out, a new PC13 ultra is in the price range. Any reason to go PB over PC? Isn't the performance the same? I don't really care that it looks like a carpeted water heater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post

Rythmik FV15HP at $1274 + shipping

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...rythmik-fv15hp

I'm familiar with that review. The FV15HP is an impressive sub, and I see recommendations for it all the time. I see fewer recommendations for the F15HP, which I don't really understand. From my limited experience, I find sealed subs more appealing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Shoot, so close

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php...=91839.0;imode

(no idea how recent that listing is though)

If it's available when I'm ready to buy, and shipping isn't insane, I'll consider that strongly, depending on shipping. A Submersive is worth going a bit over budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

The money you save could be put towards an AVR with XT32 room correction and right now a Denon would be hard to beat (4311).

I've already budgeted a processor upgrade. Any money I save will go into the family fund.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

What about the JTR Captivator 1000 passive version for $1199, then buy a Behringer amp?

Now that's an interesting idea. I've read a lot of good things about the Captivator. Is there a specific Behringer amp you recommend?
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post #20 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

Now that's an interesting idea. I've read a lot of good things about the Captivator. Is there a specific Behringer amp you recommend?

Yeah. I don't have one (I have an Outlaw EX), but that would be near or at the top of my list for consideration in your budget range for a dedicated HT room

I believe people are using Behringer iNuke or Crown amps with those. Ask in the JTR Captivator thread for what they recommend within your entire budget.

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post #21 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

My (perhaps unfair) impression of the Chase subs is that they are brutes designed for people with large rooms or the need for max SPL.

IMO, the SS-18.2s and the VS-18.1s are more geared toward large rooms and/or higher SPLs. (My dual SS-18.1s work great in my ~3,375 cu.ft. space - they're tight for music, and can pound pretty hard when called upon for HT duty - but they don't shine quite as well as my buddy's SS-18.1s do in his smaller, ~2,025 cu.ft. space.)

Quote:


This may be irrational, but I feel two 18's would overpower my room.

If they're dialled in properly, they won't. That'll be true for any sub(s).

That being said, if they're not for you, they're not for you. And, anyway, you've got a lot of other good sub suggestions here to work with.

Happy shopping!
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post #22 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

Sorry for the monster reply. I'm going to try to respond to a lot of the excellent suggestions in on big post.



My (perhaps unfair) impression of the Chase subs is that they are brutes designed for people with large rooms or the need for max SPL. This may be irrational, but I feel two 18's would overpower my room.





As Travis points out, a new PC13 ultra is in the price range. Any reason to go PB over PC? Isn't the performance the same? I don't really care that it looks like a carpeted water heater.



I'm familiar with that review. The FV15HP is an impressive sub, and I see recommendations for it all the time. I see fewer recommendations for the F15HP, which I don't really understand. From my limited experience, I find sealed subs more appealing.



If it's available when I'm ready to buy, and shipping isn't insane, I'll consider that strongly, depending on shipping. A Submersive is worth going a bit over budget.



I've already budgeted a processor upgrade. Any money I save will go into the family fund.



Now that's an interesting idea. I've read a lot of good things about the Captivator. Is there a specific Behringer amp you recommend?

If you find sealed subs more appealing (for any reason) you can eliminate many of the suggestions, including the SVS Ultra 13, vented Captivator, (there is a sealed version, probably out of your price range), HSU VTF-15H, Rythmik FV15/HP.
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post #23 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 02:08 PM
 
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Stick with established brands that have verified results. Watch out for pseudo DIY subs that require huge amounts of eq just to meet spec. Those subs are not ready for prime time, they need noisy pro amps to deliver the massive amount of watts necessary to eq them without clipping. Look for subs that have good Pro reviews and/or have been tested by this guy http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems

Do your research and don't fall for hype, you certainly don't want to get stuck with crummy home theater.
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post #24 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

With the sloping ceiling and number of weird angles in my room, I would think 2 subs would help a great deal with evening out the frequency response. Like you said, I'm pretty sure 1 of any of the quality subs mentioned in this thread will provide the SPL I need to ~20 Hz. It's the smoother response that 2 subs will give me that had me considering the Dual Empires.


Bluescale,

Go with dual subs and don't look back. The one year upgrade policy and the
5-year warranty makes SVS very attractive.
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post #25 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

My (perhaps unfair) impression of the Chase subs is that they are brutes designed for people with large rooms or the need for max SPL. This may be irrational, but I feel two 18's would overpower my room.

Hummm, based on this response you sound like you're not really the type to have a continuous case of upgraditus... Is that a fair assessment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

I'm familiar with that review. The FV15HP is an impressive sub, and I see recommendations for it all the time. I see fewer recommendations for the F15HP, which I don't really understand. From my limited experience, I find sealed subs more appealing.

I was seriously considering the FV15HP until I was talked into going the LMS Ultra route. You could do single sealed ultra for very close to your budget. I'm a firm believer in the Ultra being the "solution" vs. just another upgrade route.

LMS Ultra = $925 shipped
INuke6000 amp = $499 shipped
ED Sub Box = $ 350-500 shipped

Something I would consider since you find sealed subs more appealing.

 

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post #26 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 03:15 PM
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Well, as to 2 18" subs being overpowering, your original thought of two Empires yields 4 15" drivers, albeit in a much more attractive sealed box...overpowering depends on how you use the volume control The best way to think about it is dynamic range and headroom! Yeah, that's right, dynamic range and headroom, that's the ticket (imagine mashup of Jon Lovitz and Billy Crystal here).

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post #27 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

That is the plan. I'll get the mic with the sub(s) and any room correction/eq solution I purchase. It will all come at the same time.

Nice, good luck and post your progress !!!!!!
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post #28 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 03:51 PM
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What about the Rythmik F15 and F15HP? Both sealed. Both have enough output for your room size. Both will dig to near 10hz with room gain.

The audioholics review and follow up of the HSU VTF-15 scares me away from that as an option, plus IMO (based only on what I read) the FV15 is worth the few extra $$$$, so the sealed versions would be a good choice.

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post #29 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

If you find sealed subs more appealing (for any reason) you can eliminate many of the suggestions, including the SVS Ultra 13, vented Captivator, (there is a sealed version, probably out of your price range), HSU VTF-15H, Rythmik FV15/HP.

I find sealed subs more appealing, but I'm not closed off to the idea of a ported sub. What I'm curious about is why people often recommend the FV15HP, but I don't see the F15HP listed as often in these threads. I also see the VTF-15H recommended quite a bit more than the ULS-15. Is it just because of sheer output?
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post #30 of 61 Old 05-30-2012, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post

I find sealed subs more appealing, but I'm not closed off to the idea of a ported sub. What I'm curious about is why people often recommend the FV15HP, but I don't see the F15HP listed as often in these threads. I also see the VTF-15H recommended quite a bit more than the ULS-15. Is it just because of sheer output?

Ported subs are usually the preferred choice for systems geared primarily - or, as in your case, exclusively - for HT. And ported subs generally offer more output around their tuning frequency.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with sealed subs - even 18"-ers! - in a smaller room such as yours.
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