My upgrade to the Ken Kreisel MX-5000 Mk3 subs - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 09:35 AM
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I must have missed the "intolerance" or slagging of the unit.

The only issue here was questioning someone who stated that he measured the unit as "flat to 10hz".

When asked to show the measurements, the poster refused
When asked how the measurements were taken, the poster refused
When asked what was used to perform the measurements, the poster refused

Had he been willing to provide any of the above, the vast majority of this would have been avoided. The issue raised was not about the capabilities of the sub, but the validity of that set measurements and the need to accept them on trust

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post #182 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Ian J View Post

Hmmm. I came to this forum recently to escape that kind of thing as I was an interested poster on a Seaton Submersive thread on a UK forum but found that the sub was being rubbished by people that had never heard one until the thread was closed.
My next contribution was to a JL Audio thread in which someone stated that a chappie selling JL Audio subs "seemed to be a very experienced guy he believes all subs and speakers should be sealed a ported speaker sub never works" I politely queried that on the basis that many manufacturers and users of ported subs would disagree with that statement to be told "I do not think it is fair to start making fun of such good folk when sat behind a PC." and that if I continued along that line my future posts would be deleted.
It seems that intolerance is alive and kicking on both sides of the big divide so perhaps I should look for an Australian community to join smile.gif

It does not matter where you come from, there will always be strong minded individuals that know it all! Especially behind the keyboard. Everyone sticks up for what they own, it is why they own it. We just need to stick to the subject at hand and not get personal. Debate is always welcomed but personal insults should stay away, after all, how well do we really know each other. I love when people insult me, call me names, or whatever, as I know what kind of person I am. People around here are getting crazier and crazier and if someone likes something they have to prove it is good all of a sudden. People pay more money for things for their own reasons and don't need to be told they are wasting their money and conversely, people spending lots of money should not assume it is the best and more importantly shove their purchase down our throats. I say people get offended to easily on the internet. I used to be a huge M&K fan and owned many of their products. The best one I owned were 7 S-5000THX speakers and dual MX-5000 subs. It was great and still is, however, in this day and age it can be surpassed for less money. I think that is what people are saying here but who knows how this sub performs. I am sure it will sound as good as any, the difference will be how loud and low can it go compared to the competition. That is all.
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post #183 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 10:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ian J View Post

Hmmm. I came to this forum recently to escape that kind of thing as I was an interested poster on a Seaton Submersive thread on a UK forum but found that the sub was being rubbished by people that had never heard one until the thread was closed.
My next contribution was to a JL Audio thread in which someone stated that a chappie selling JL Audio subs "seemed to be a very experienced guy he believes all subs and speakers should be sealed a ported speaker sub never works" I politely queried that on the basis that many manufacturers and users of ported subs would disagree with that statement to be told "I do not think it is fair to start making fun of such good folk when sat behind a PC." and that if I continued along that line my future posts would be deleted.
It seems that intolerance is alive and kicking on both sides of the big divide so perhaps I should look for an Australian community to join smile.gif

I'm not surprised really. You personally attack people and wrongly accuse them of posting sly comments, but then do what you are accusing others of doing!! rolleyes.gif
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post #184 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

The way I see it, no matter what I post, anything I say is going to be twisted out of proportion. So why should I even bother trying to convince anyone with such a negative attitude towards a product they have decided they don't like.

For the record, I am currently beta testing some measuring equipment and the NDA prevents me from discussing it. I had confirmation today that I am free to admit it, as long as I do not reveal any details about the manufacturer or the products. I did intend to purchase a Dayton EMM-6 or Behringer ECM8000 and a Pre-Amp to use with REW, for comparison, but I simply can't afford it at the moment.

The replies, accusations and attitudes have been interesting though. Proving that some people just don't know when to shut up and others will say anything to try and be-little a person or a product that they know very little (or nothing) about.

This is my last post on the thread. Make of it what you will.

You have a reputation man, a friend of mine told me to come check this thread out, because it was rather unbelievable. wink.gif

Step back and consider what you've said. You said I am flat to 10 hz in my room and I can't measure below that. When people were excited for the new product and or skeptical --- and asked about your room, your setup, your measuring equipment, you said I don't have to tell you and so I won't. This sounds about like my 3 year old's behavior. When people offered how to help you post them, or offered that even if you were just charting plots of SPL vs. frequency with an SPL meter they would be greatly interested in the data, you said I don't need any help with that and I'm not going to give you the data. When further pressed you generically claim you are under some nebulous NDA. If you were under NDA you could have just said that from the beginning. You've in no way inspired confidence in the truthfulness of your posts.

Sounds like a farce. It's time to put up, or shut up. Afterall, you claimed to have something you don't seem to be able to produce.

Saying you DID intend to purchase a Dayton EMM-6 or Behringer ECM8000 and Pre-amp to use with REW in the post above implies you intended to take measurements, but never did. Your original posts continued to imply you HAD taken measurements. That's the rub, you were lying and got found out.

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post #185 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 12:10 PM
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^^^^
Good post.

One more item: If he really was testing measuring equipment, one of the requirements of any valid work would be to have a known good measurement rig to use as a control. NDA or not, he should have a second set of measurement to post with no risk to the NDA.
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post #186 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

. You personally attack people and wrongly accuse them of posting sly comments, but then do what you are accusing others of doing!! rolleyes.gif

I never personally attack anyone but I will argue my case robustly if neccessary without getting personal at all and if you ask your brother Dav1dF I'm sure he will agree
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post #187 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 12:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ian J View Post

I never personally attack anyone but I will argue my case robustly if neccessary without getting personal at all and if you ask your brother Dav1dF I'm sure he will agree

You personally attacked me and there is no denying it.

So why are you posting as "Wore Nowt" on AVF when you have the "Ian J" account? What is your true interest in Submersive exactly? Because the more you run this into the ground, the more it seems like you have an agenda.
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post #188 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 12:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

^^^^
Good post.
One more item: If he really was testing measuring equipment, one of the requirements of any valid work would be to have a known good measurement rig to use as a control. NDA or not, he should have a second set of measurement to post with no risk to the NDA.

But when the same company is supplying both and does not want any talk (at all) on forums etc. I have to respect that. Trying to find an excuse to continue be-littling me at every moment is getting pretty pathetic now.
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post #189 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 01:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

If you were under NDA you could have just said that from the beginning..... That's the rub, you were lying and got found out.

I could have, but the silly comments towards me got out of hand pretty quick, so I decided to see who would make a meal of it. If you believe I was lying, you are just as bad as the rest of them.

I had decided to leave the thread alone, until Ian J popped up and felt the need to get involved unnecessarily. It's one thing to join a thread and attack people on it, but it's another thing to carry over an argument from a different thread on a different forum.

I see no point taking any further part on the thread, but some people obviously don't know where to draw the line. If you want me to shut up, then stop aiming ridiculous comments and insults at me. How simple is that?
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post #190 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 01:25 PM
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Rather than all the back and forth nonsense(although it always gets more posts) can we have the OP post some pics, graphs, anything to keep his thread going? Hello, OP, where are you? I am about to start a new thread on my new subs but I won't even consider it until I get pics, graphs of LP and nearfield responses, even compression and THD results will be nice. Oh yeah, another competitor to the KK subs. I hope KK hit one out of the park because these subs I have now destroy my old M&K subs in both sound quality and especially down low.
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post #191 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

If you were under NDA you could have just said that from the beginning..... That's the rub, you were lying and got found out.

I could have, but the silly comments towards me got out of hand pretty quick, so I decided to see who would make a meal of it. If you believe I was lying, you are just as bad as the rest of them.

I had decided to leave the thread alone, until Ian J popped up and felt the need to get involved unnecessarily. It's one thing to join a thread and attack people on it, but it's another thing to carry over an argument from a different thread on a different forum.

I see no point taking any further part on the thread, but some people obviously don't know where to draw the line. If you want me to shut up, then stop aiming ridiculous comments and insults at me. How simple is that?


Why not post the graphs and let that be your final salute so to speak. Otherwise this all seems like some sort of come along.

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post #192 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 01:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I hope KK hit one out of the park because these subs I have now destroy my old M&K subs in both sound quality and especially down low.

The MX-5000 Mk3 destroys the previous models in sound quality and down low, and also improves on the MX-5100.
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post #193 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 01:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Why not post the graphs and let that be your final salute so to speak. Otherwise this all seems like some sort of come along.

After calling me a liar, you can dream on. I doubt that the people who were originally (and genuinely) interested are stil following the thread, so I no longer see any point anyway.
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post #194 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 01:59 PM
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post #195 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

But when the same company is supplying both and does not want any talk (at all) on forums etc. I have to respect that. Trying to find an excuse to continue be-littling me at every moment is getting pretty pathetic now.



So the same company that asked you not to discuss either device has no issue with you discussing measurements taken - um, OK, that sounds likely rolleyes.gif

As noted above, your late response about having an NDA is highly suspect - if that were the case, then you shouldn't have discussed measurements at all or should have stated you had an NDA from the start and avoided the whole mess. And how would posting measurements from the control device be an issue anyway?

Sorry, doesn't add up.
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post #196 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

I could have, but the silly comments towards me got out of hand pretty quick, so I decided to see who would make a meal of it. If you believe I was lying, you are just as bad as the rest of them.
I had decided to leave the thread alone, until Ian J popped up and felt the need to get involved unnecessarily. It's one thing to join a thread and attack people on it, but it's another thing to carry over an argument from a different thread on a different forum.
I see no point taking any further part on the thread, but some people obviously don't know where to draw the line. If you want me to shut up, then stop aiming ridiculous comments and insults at me. How simple is that?

Another thing you've stated at least four time in this thread that hasn't measured up. Is the reason why covered by an NDA?

Edit - I see you are still refusing to post the measurements, but now the reason is petulance and perceived lack of interest rather than an NDA.
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post #197 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

So the same company that asked you not to discuss either device has no issue with you discussing measurements taken - um, OK, that sounds likely rolleyes.gif
As noted above, your late response about having an NDA is highly suspect - if that were the case, then you shouldn't have discussed measurements at all or should have stated you had an NDA from the start and avoided the whole mess. And how would posting measurements from the control device be an issue anyway?
Sorry, doesn't add up.

I honestly don't give a crap if you feel it adds up or not.
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post #198 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Another thing you've stated at least four time in this thread that hasn't measured up. Is the reason why covered by an NDA?
Edit - I see you are still refusing to post the measurements, but now the reason is petulance and perceived lack of interest rather than an NDA.

Diddums.
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post #199 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:41 PM
 
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Here's something that will help you next time:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/extreme-fear/201005/top-10-secrets-effective-liars

Oh look, one of the big clever 'men' is calling me a liar from behind his computer screen again. rolleyes.gif
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post #200 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:43 PM
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This reminds me of George Costanza's line when talking to Jerry, "it's not a lie if you believe it" as he prepared Jerry for the lie detector test to see if he was watching a soap opera or something like that. Sorry for the thread fart.
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post #201 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

Oh look, one of the big clever 'men' is calling me a liar from behind his computer screen again. rolleyes.gif

We are discussing this on an internet forum. How else would you like me to do it?

Prove me wrong - post the measurements.
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post #202 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

I doubt that the people who were originally (and genuinely) interested are stil following the thread, so I no longer see any point anyway.

Im still interested in seeing what this sub can do. I asked before but maybe you missed it so i'll as again. What size room was the sub in when the flat to 10hz measurements were taken??
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post #203 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

We are discussing this on an internet forum. How else would you like me to do it?
Prove me wrong - post the measurements.

I don't need to prove anything, especially not to the likes of you. Is that clear enough for you?
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post #204 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Im still interested in seeing what this sub can do. I asked before but maybe you missed it so i'll as again. What size room was the sub in when the flat to 10hz measurements were taken??

Small, by your American standards.
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post #205 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

I don't need to prove anything, especially not to the likes of you. Is that clear enough for you?

What's clear is that you won't be providing measurements to anyone because:

You have an NDA
or
You are being petulant
or
You don't have them. (my personal guess)
or
Some other reason you'll concoct in the next post you swore not to make rolleyes.gif
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post #206 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

What's clear is that you won't be providing measurements to anyone because:
You have an NDA
or
You are being petulant
or
You don't have them. (my personal guess)
or
Some other reason you'll concoct in the next post you swore not to make rolleyes.gif

What is clear is that you are annoying and just don't know when to stop.
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post #207 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

What is clear is that you are annoying and really stupid.

But honest.
And I actually have measurements of my subs biggrin.gif
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post #208 of 208 Old 06-27-2012, 02:55 PM
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I see this thread has run it's course, along with the fact the OP isn't participating at this time. If OP sees a reason for it to be reopened, please contact me.

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