How 'hot' do you run your sub(s) for movie? - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: How 'hot' do you run your sub(s) for movie?
0-3dbs louder 48 60.76%
3-6dbs louder 16 20.25%
6-9dbs louder 13 16.46%
10dbs or more louder 2 2.53%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 27 Old 06-10-2012, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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How 'hot' do you run your sub(s) for movie? I usually run mine 3-6dbs louder than my other channels. Thanks for participating.
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post #2 of 27 Old 06-10-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

How 'hot' do you run your sub(s) for movie? I usually run mine 3-6dbs louder than my other channels. Thanks for participating.

2db ish. RS SPL meter says its at 77dB

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #3 of 27 Old 06-10-2012, 02:06 PM
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Might want to break it down further. I run mine 3db hot, which I think many do, but that puts it in the same range 0-3 in your poll as those who do not run it at all hot.
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post #4 of 27 Old 06-10-2012, 02:21 PM
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The AVR rumble tone (bandwidth limited pink noise) has a bandwidth of 30-100 Hz. After calibrating SW level by leveling the SW output until it yields a flat frequency response through the crossover point using a precision measurement rig, the RS meter/AVR rumble tone method will read 70-71dB.

That means that if you use the meter/rumble to calibrate to 75dB, you're already 4-5dB hot.

Most systems I've measured in other people's homes showed the SW level running +8-10dB hot, not discriminating between music or movies source material.

So, to have proper context, how the determination for the level was made should accompany the answer.

I prefer a flat response, letting the sound design/mix team handle the levels. The only source I've felt compelled to 'bump' the SW output with is the Transformers trilogy, bumping 3-5dB.
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post #5 of 27 Old 06-10-2012, 04:45 PM
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For almost all movies and music, I run my subs 4dB hot. Some exceptions include:
- "The Police - Certifiable" - for that disc, I run the subs flat; and
- the occasional music album that sounds good with the subs flat or, at most, 2dB hot.
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post #6 of 27 Old 06-10-2012, 04:59 PM
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Audyssey calibrates my system, and for movies i most never touch it. Concert DVD's are a nightmare....i never leave one trim where it was...
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post #7 of 27 Old 06-10-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Audyssey calibrates my system, and for movies i most never touch it. Concert DVD's are a nightmare....i never leave one trim where it was...

I noticed that. Whats with concert DVDs that they each need their own adjustments to sound right?? I guess they aren't recorded to a standard like movies are
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post #8 of 27 Old 06-10-2012, 06:32 PM
 
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Mostly I have my sub run 3db for most movies. Plenty loud for my room.
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post #9 of 27 Old 06-10-2012, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

I noticed that. Whats with concert DVDs that they each need their own adjustments to sound right?? I guess they aren't recorded to a standard like movies are

I usually write down the new settings on a piece of paper so the next time a watch the disc i can just dial it in ahead of time...
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post #10 of 27 Old 06-10-2012, 07:15 PM
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I'm at about 6 db hot.

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post #11 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 01:40 AM
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I'm still experimenting with my setup trying to get the effect I want rolleyes.gif, so this changes all the time, but I tend to run +2 down to 50hz and then apply a gentle "reverse knee" curve to add 2-3dB more in the sub-30hz if I've never seen the movie. With repeat viewings I already know how it was mixed so I'll adjust it a bit to match what I would personally choose to mix the LFE at.

I decided to see Prometheus at the local theater and they ran the LFE way too hot. The distortion from the subwoofers (as well as the ability to localize speakers instead of hearing a soundfield) distracted me so often I could never get into the movie except for an intense scene later in the movie. The LFE was too loud during less intense parts and too weak during the climax *cough cough* power compression *cough cough* biggrin.gif

...
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post #12 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

The AVR rumble tone (bandwidth limited pink noise) has a bandwidth of 30-100 Hz. After calibrating SW level by leveling the SW output until it yields a flat frequency response through the crossover point using a precision measurement rig, the RS meter/AVR rumble tone method will read 70-71dB.
That means that if you use the meter/rumble to calibrate to 75dB, you're already 4-5dB hot.

Wow, this is interesting. Most people use the meter/rumble and assume 75dB is 0 level. If the meter reads 77dB, they'll say it is +2dB hot.

From what you say, a 77dB reading = +6 to +7dB hot. This definitely changes the paradigm of what people mean by "hot".
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post #13 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 05:35 AM
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You guys are true bass fanatics, I guess. Audyssey sets my mains at -2.5 and my sub at -4. I set my sub at -6 (for music, older movies or most video games) or lower (for almost every new blu-ray movie release).

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post #14 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all for participating so far. I just realize that my poll answers should have been 0-3, 4-7dbs, etc... instead to avoid overlapping votes.
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post #15 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 10:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arande2 View Post

I'm still experimenting with my setup trying to get the effect I want rolleyes.gif, so this changes all the time, but I tend to run +2 down to 50hz and then apply a gentle "reverse knee" curve to add 2-3dB more in the sub-30hz if I've never seen the movie. With repeat viewings I already know how it was mixed so I'll adjust it a bit to match what I would personally choose to mix the LFE at.
I decided to see Prometheus at the local theater and they ran the LFE way too hot. The distortion from the subwoofers (as well as the ability to localize speakers instead of hearing a soundfield) distracted me so often I could never get into the movie except for an intense scene later in the movie. The LFE was too loud during less intense parts and too weak during the climax *cough cough* power compression *cough cough* biggrin.gif

Not to mention that horrible screenplay. I'm sure folks will be buying the blu ray for the LFE.
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post #16 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 10:40 AM
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Run mine flat/level with all other speakers, but I use Audyssey DynEQ which gives me a boost in low freq when listening below reference level.

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post #17 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 10:48 AM
 
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Quote:
precision measurement rig

What exactly is that and how do you get one?
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post #18 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 10:52 AM
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mine is 2dB more than what Audssey chose for me

for music, I run mine flat

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post #19 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 11:06 AM
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I just setup my Onkyo 5009 with my 2 SVS PC12-Plus and I'm very pleased how Audyssey calibrated the subs. Checking with SPL meter it was level with all the speakers. It probably won't sound good for people that like boomy bass.
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post #20 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 12:56 PM
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God knows how hot I'm running my system. Every way I calibrate it, I get different results. I have Avia and WOW, with Avia the sub level is higher than with WOW by 4-5 dbs, when I calibrate with reciever test tones it is inconsistent too. If I run the tone at say 80db and level match the sub with the speakers and then turn the master volume up to 85db suddenly the levels don't match anymore so I don't trust using receiver test tones. When I run MCACC it sets the sub level so low I can hardly hear it (which I'm guessing is probably actually level matched since I like a lot of bass and level would sound weak to me I'm sure).

So, nothing is consistent. Both calibration disks give different results as do receiver test tones dependent on the master volume. I used to trust Avia, but since I bought the WOW disk I don't know what to think.

I will say this, EVERY person I've ever had over here to show the system to (and there have been a lot) prefer the bass turned up where I like it. So it seems to me that most people like the bass where I set it which I assume is REALLY hot.
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post #21 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 01:24 PM
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I set my to -0-

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post #22 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 01:42 PM
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I have to turn mine down after Audyssey MULTEQ XT is done, It applies an insane LF boost.  Using AVR sub rumble i'm about 3db louder than mains.

 

Disclaimer:  I do like bass and don't give a rats ^$$  what the movie makers intended, when home tree falls, I want to feel it!

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post #23 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 02:43 PM
 
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Since we're on this topic, anyone know how hot cinemas run their subs?.
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post #24 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 02:45 PM
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For those that are using the AVR internal test tones after running Audyssey, you might find this interesting. These was taken from the Audyssey FAQ thread.

Quote:
If the average band-limited pink noise level is meant to be 85dB at the Main Listening Position, then why are the Audyssey chirps' only 75dB?

Audyssey originally used an 85db test tone for the calibration, but received numerous complaints about how loud the calibration tones were (especially since many users performed the calibrations at night when their room was quietest), so Audyssey switched to using a 75db test tone for the calibration (perceptually half as loud and much more tolerable). Because your AVR knows that the Audyssey chirp' is -30dB from Full Scale' (-30dBFS), it makes no difference to the final result - 0dB on the Master Volume control will give a Sound Pressure Level average of the required 85dB, as mentioned above - in other words, Reference Level.

Finally, a word about internal test tones on your AVR and those you will find on external test discs. As I say above, on all Audyssey-equipped AVRs the test tones are band-limited pink noise recorded at 75dB (-30DBFS). The signals recorded on most external calibration discs are usually recorded at 85dB (-20dBFS). Both methods can be used successfully to calibrate a system. However, please note that when you play the internal test tones in your AVR, they bypass all Audyssey processing, including equalization.

To get some idea of whether your system is capable of playing at Reference Levels, you may want to play around with these Sound Pressure Level calculators - just feed in the data and they will tell you the Sound Pressure Level you can achieve in your room! If they all give different results, well, that's because there are a lot of relevant parameters and not all of them are necessarily included in every calculator. Just treat them as a guide.
Quote:
e)3. My Sound Pressure Level meter gives a different result from Audyssey - which is right?

Many people have an inexpensive Sound Pressure Level meter - often the legendary Rat Shack' version. These meters are useful for comparative readings but less useful for absolute readings. By this, I mean that the meter is useful to enable you to say this speaker is 2dB louder than that speaker but far less useful in saying this speaker is 71dB. The method that Audyssey uses to determine Sound Pressure Level is more sophisticated than a simple hand held meter's and so if there is a discrepancy in the two readings, it is likely that the Audyssey reading is more accurate. The most important thing is that the readings across all channels are the same (ideally 75dB in a calibrated system) rather than that they are all at a given level.

One point to note is that Sound Pressure Level meters are virtually useless for reading bass levels and in this regard the Audyssey setting is almost always far more accurate.

Incidentally, if you are going to use a Sound Pressure Level meter to double check the levels Audyssey has set, make sure you use an external test tone disc such as AIX, Avia, or DVE as the internal test tones of your AVR or Prepro bypass all post processing done by the calibration program and will not reflect the true level of the speakers when you play a movie with all the post processing engaged.

I run Anti-Mode 8033, next I run Audyssey XT and then use an RS SPL 33-4050 analog meter (not the Old Analog RS meter) and Audio DVD Tool Kit that came with my SubMersive HP and level match the Subm with the mains by following the instructions on the disc. In my case (and in my room) I have to turn the SubM 4db hotter than what Audyssey choose to get everything level matched and to sound balance to my ears. I could stand to go a db or 2 hotter for movies and probably 1db less for music but find this to be the perfect balance for me.
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post #25 of 27 Old 06-11-2012, 02:55 PM
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Nothing at all wrong with running your subs hot, but if you are calibrating them in part by ear, your calibration has to be incorrect. Humans' hearing is significantly less sensitive at lower frequencies, so to sound as loud as an 80 dB 1 KHz tone, a 40 Hz tone would have to be about 106 dB, according to the ISO226 equal loudness curves. Of course, we hear everything through the same ears, natural as well as reproduced sounds, and the mixers, so far, are uniformly human beings so they have the same kind of hearing. There's no need to correct for the equal loudness curves unless (if one chooses to do so) one is playing at a level below the known reference level the material was mixed to (which we know for movies. For music the only thing we know is we don't know.)
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post #26 of 27 Old 03-26-2013, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Run mine flat/level with all other speakers, but I use Audyssey DynEQ which gives me a boost in low freq when listening below reference level.

+1

Doesn't running your subs hot shorten there operating life?

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post #27 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

+1

Doesn't running your subs hot shorten there operating life?

Wouldn't that analysis apply to use of Dynamic EQ? To turning up the master volume control for all speakers? Unless you're operating the driver very close to its maxima, I'd be surprised if there's a significant difference. Otherwise, we'd all buy subs then listen so quietly that we can't hear the bass anyway, so they'd last a long time. I mean the sub doesn't know whether it is calibrated flat ith other speakers or not. Heck, it doesn't know other spekers exist . . .

Myself, I run flat plus DEQ and listen well below reference almost all the time.
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