VTF15H. Why not the ULS15? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 48 Old 06-16-2012, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Yes they are until you get something like a S. Submersive. Now I haven't heard them, but from reports they are powerful sealed subwoofers that get really low.

So only something along the lines of a Submersive has both sound quality and the ability to dig low? Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you the one arguing in thread after thread about there being no need for anything below 20Hz while never having heard anything that can play that low? Or is that someone else?
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post #32 of 48 Old 06-17-2012, 12:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

So only something along the lines of a Submersive has both sound quality and the ability to dig low? Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you the one arguing in thread after thread about there being no need for anything below 20Hz while never having heard anything that can play that low? Or is that someone else?

That's what I'm saying. Yes, something like a S. Submersive, based upon the reports I've read. Once again, it is both sealed, deep and powerful. Its only downfall is that its really big and only pratical for dedicated HT rooms.

Yes, I have argued that below 20hz is impractical for a number of reasons, however that is my opinion, other have disagreed.
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post #33 of 48 Old 06-17-2012, 12:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

You guys who say you definately prefer ported or sealed sound. I wonder if you could even tell the difference?
These nine enthusiasts largely couldn't when put to that task. Look at the end of post 2 for the summary results.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1387178/archaeas-kansas-city-blind-subwoofer-shootout-2012/0_50
For instance 66% of the blind voters thought the HSU VTF-15H was a sealed subwoofer.
Here's a snippet summary from post 2:
As to the accuracy of the blind voters on whether they were listening to a ported or sealed or horn sub - it's pretty clear the majority of enthusiasts cannot reliably tell the difference between the different sub designs in blind auditioning as the majority only got it right twice out of seven subs.

Here's a link to the voting tally.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1387178/archaeas-kansas-city-blind-subwoofer-shootout-2012/350_50#post_21520007
Here's a graphic showing the summary
InitialBlindVoteTally.jpg

That's interesting. Were the enthusiast trained listeners? Did they know exactly what to listen for?

I have often wondered how one actually conducts a blind scientific listening test of subs since their placement is so critical to how they will sound, also taking into consideration that two subs can't be placed in same spot.
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post #34 of 48 Old 06-17-2012, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

That's interesting. Were the enthusiast trained listeners? Did they know exactly what to listen for?
I have often wondered how one actually conducts a blind scientific listening test of subs since their placement is so critical to how they will sound, also taking into consideration that two subs can't be placed in same spot.

They could if the testing took place outdoors (or in a theoretically very large anechoic chamber). In-room placement will affect frequency response, but not things like group delay, distortion, attack time, overhang, etc. In other words, different placement is not going to make subs that differ in these respects sound the same.
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post #35 of 48 Old 06-17-2012, 02:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

They could if the testing took place outdoors (or in a theoretically very large anechoic chamber). In-room placement will affect frequency response, but not things like group delay, distortion, attack time, overhang, etc. In other words, different placement is not going to make subs that differ in these respects sound the same.

I should have asked the question, where was the test conducted? I assumed it was done in a room, not necessarily in an anechoic chamber and not outdoors. I can't imagine an outdoor enviornment being used for a critical listening test between subs, considering the possible distractions coming from being outside.
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post #36 of 48 Old 06-17-2012, 03:02 AM
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The tests Archaea is referring too were done in someones room, my understanding is its a fairly large room.

I can imagine some outdoor environments being pretty good for testing, like say the antarctic tundra on a calm day. There wouldn't be any humidity to dampen the sound, and the amps and drivers could run to greater potentials because thermal issues will be less of a concern. In fact, I think it would be a swell idea to organize a subwoofer shoot out in antarctica! Who is in?
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post #37 of 48 Old 06-17-2012, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

Are the two mutually exclusive?

Not at all. There are plenty of subs that play low and sound great and for far less than a Submersive. They are however , usually ported or pricey. I've had a Outlaw lfm1-plus that sounded great and had low end output . Also a svs pc12-nsd.

The right tool for the job and placement are the two most important factors..

...... If someone quotes somebody that you have blocked, you see that quote. Just saying. Kinda hurts the idea of blocking them especially if they get quoted often......

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post #38 of 48 Old 06-17-2012, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post


That's what I'm saying. Yes, something like a S. Submersive, based upon the reports I've read. Once again, it is both sealed, deep and powerful. Its only downfall is that its really big and only pratical for dedicated HT rooms.

I guess it's all a matter of opinion but I think the sealed subversive is actually pretty small for what it does. I think someone even described it as cute in the owners thread.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
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post #39 of 48 Old 06-17-2012, 09:42 AM
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I have a question to all those who feel a ported sub is not musical do you feel the same way with ported towers where more of the music info is more critical ?
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post #40 of 48 Old 06-17-2012, 10:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The tests Archaea is referring too were done in someones room, my understanding is its a fairly large room.
I can imagine some outdoor environments being pretty good for testing, like say the antarctic tundra on a calm day. There wouldn't be any humidity to dampen the sound, and the amps and drivers could run to greater potentials because thermal issues will be less of a concern. In fact, I think it would be a swell idea to organize a subwoofer shoot out in antarctica! Who is in?

You're speaking only to the equipment being tested and not the listener. I think a quiet room would be optimal for the listener as a opposed to outdoors. We're trying to find out if the listener can hear the difference between sealed and ported.
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post #41 of 48 Old 06-17-2012, 10:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by amheck View Post

I guess it's all a matter of opinion but I think the sealed subversive is actually pretty small for what it does. I think someone even described it as cute in the owners thread.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

The S. Submersive is roughly about the same size as the ported VTF15H which to me is quite large.
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post #42 of 48 Old 06-17-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I have a question to all those who feel a ported sub is not musical do you feel the same way with ported towers where more of the music info is more critical ?

absolutely

All this noise about noise.
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post #43 of 48 Old 06-18-2012, 08:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I have a question to all those who feel a ported sub is not musical do you feel the same way with ported towers where more of the music info is more critical ?

Don't use them.
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post #44 of 48 Old 06-18-2012, 11:15 AM
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To the responders of ported towers and subs looking again to make sure Dynaudio,B&W and Paradigm they all are ported speakers or at least their top of the line yet review after review they get merits for the way they handle music even Focal's Utopia which is said to go down to 24Hz is ported.
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post #45 of 48 Old 06-18-2012, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Boom (low loud sound) is typically preferred over sound quality (detailed music) here in this forum. I hope one day that paradigm will change.

Some of us love sound quality & huge output wink.gif Your statement seems like an over-generalization.
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post #46 of 48 Old 06-19-2012, 10:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by zora View Post

Some of us love sound quality & huge output wink.gif Your statement seems like an over-generalization.

And those folks typically look for subs like S. Submersive, which reportedly gives you both.
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post #47 of 48 Old 09-08-2012, 06:10 PM
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When you have dual uls-15 subs in a 3500^3 room and you try to play loud, for Transformers for example, what happens?....Does it just not play loud or does it distort and sound terrible or what...?? Would having dual ULS15's allow you to play loud like the VTF15 for movies? Would 2 ULS15 = the VTF15 in "slam(?) , etc, and then be better for music?...I am new to quality audio/subs and am trying to sort out everything I have been reading.....Any information would be welcome.....:


Thanks,
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post #48 of 48 Old 09-08-2012, 10:20 PM
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If you over-drive subs, they can bottom out. Some have said their ULS's can bottom out if pushed too hard, but my understanding is that an underhung driver like the ULS's is impossible to bottom out, in the sense of slamming on the back plate, and instead it would overstretch the spider. All I know is I have driven my ULS subs pretty hard and I haven't heard ant bottoming noise. I don't know how a dual drive compares to a VTF15h in an SPL contest, the best guy to ask is Dr. Hsu himself, and he does read and post in the Hsu subs thread. You ought to pose that question to him there.
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