Question re: subs in large rooms - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 06-16-2012, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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We'll be moving into a new home shortly, and the house is wired for 5.1 surround. I've never had a setup before, and everyone on this site has been extremely helpful in answering all of my questions. The room that the system will be in is sort of a big rectangle, with one half being the tv/living room (where the wires are), and the other end having the dining table and opening into the kitchen. There are 10' ceilings, so all in all the room is about 5,000 c.f., with the entertainment area being maybe 3,000 c.f. of that.

My question is - if I mainly want a sub just to fill in the low end of songs and movies, and not a sub powerful enough to shake the foundation and rattle my innards, what should I be looking for? It'll be used probably 80% tv/movies and 20% music, but we'd probably turn it up louder when listening to music if that makes a difference.

Obviously, having just bought a house, our budget is pretty tight. I've been looking at the Bic Acoustech PL-200 or the Polk PSW505. Are these good options? Too much? Too little?

What do you guys (and gals) think?
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post #2 of 21 Old 06-16-2012, 05:55 PM
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Eh, you arent going to be able to properly fill a room that size with any $200-$300 sub. The sub sees the entire volume of your room. The best thing you can do is worry about getting a strong 40hz and up performance if you dont want to increase your budget. Something like this would be decent.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-770
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post #3 of 21 Old 06-16-2012, 07:35 PM
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Just looked at your sub build Jay, nice work.

There you go OP, get Jay to make a "special" sub for your layout.

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post #4 of 21 Old 06-16-2012, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Eh, you arent going to be able to properly fill a room that size with any $200-$300 sub. The sub sees the entire volume of your room. The best thing you can do is worry about getting a strong 40hz and up performance if you dont want to increase your budget. Something like this would be decent.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-770

Hmmm... I hadn't considered building one from a kit before. How difficult is it? Does that kit include everything I need to have it working?

And man... that thing sounds like it would knock down the wall it's going to be next to. eek.gif
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post #5 of 21 Old 06-16-2012, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by blakeyj08 View Post

Hmmm... I hadn't considered building one from a kit before. How difficult is it? Does that kit include everything I need to have it working?
And man... that thing sounds like it would knock down the wall it's going to be next to. eek.gif

It's really simple. Connect wire from amp to sub. Drop sub in place, install screws. Drop amp in place, install screws. Done. It's a powerful sub above 40hz, but since it's sealed and your room is huge, it wont pick up room gain. The ported subs in this price range wont really do much below 40hz in a room your size either, so you might as well maximize your output where the majority of content is.
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Just looked at your sub build Jay, nice work.
There you go OP, get Jay to make a "special" sub for your layout.

Thanks. If OP was willing and able to build boxes, DIY would get him something pretty solid for $300.
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post #6 of 21 Old 06-16-2012, 08:32 PM
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I have the same problem.

Is a single Rythmik FV15HP enough for a space that's about 8,000 cu ft & opened to staircase that leads to first floor of the house? The main listening area is about 3700 cu ft but it's fully opened to the dining room and kitchen (total ~8,000), and the stairs. I have e-mailed SVS before and the reply was to have at least two units of PC12-Plus to pressurize the big space.

Usage will be for movie...master volume at about -15 to -10 dB.

Currently I have a small Klipsch SW450 subwoofer. With my weird room size (L shape) and the big space, it's impossible to achieve a flat frequency response with a single subwoofer.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
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post #7 of 21 Old 06-16-2012, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

If OP was willing and able to build boxes, DIY would get him something pretty solid for $300.

I'm pretty handy with anything up to simple soldering. Once it gets more complicated than that I'm willing to learn as long as it's not overly difficult.
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post #8 of 21 Old 06-16-2012, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

I have the same problem.
Is a single Rythmik FV15HP enough for a space that's about 8,000 cu ft & opened to staircase that leads to first floor of the house? The main listening area is about 3700 cu ft but it's fully opened to the dining room and kitchen (total ~8,000), and the stairs. I have e-mailed SVS before and the reply was to have at least two units of PC12-Plus to pressurize the big space.
Usage will be for movie...master volume at about -15 to -10 dB.
Currently I have a small Klipsch SW450 subwoofer. With my weird room size (L shape) and the big space, it's impossible to achieve a flat frequency response with a single subwoofer.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

That FV15 is a very nice sub, but it is hard to say whether a single one will get the job done. I am definitely a fan of running dual subs for multiple reasons. If you're okay buying a $1300 sub now, and then another one later, the FV15 would be a great choice. If you aren't interested in spending more then this amount, buying a pair of subs like the VTF3 might give better results.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk4.html
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post #9 of 21 Old 06-16-2012, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by blakeyj08 View Post

I'm pretty handy with anything up to simple soldering. Once it gets more complicated than that I'm willing to learn as long as it's not overly difficult.

Do you have a size limit for a box? Being able to build a very large enclosure is where you can maximize performance for cheap. Let me know if you're interested and I can spec you out a $300 build.
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post #10 of 21 Old 06-16-2012, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you have a size limit for a box? Being able to build a very large enclosure is where you can maximize performance for cheap. Let me know if you're interested and I can spec you out a $300 build.

Ah... I just learned what 'WAF' means on this board, and I think it'd be an issue with a large box. The width and depth are constraints - not more than 19" wide and 20" deep.
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post #11 of 21 Old 06-16-2012, 11:07 PM
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Hi Blake,

Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. WAF is a temporary condition, upgtadeitis is far worse.... wink.gif

Joseph

If you want a really good one, you'll have to learn a foreign language. german, for instance...
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post #12 of 21 Old 06-17-2012, 12:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Blake,
Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. WAF is a temporary condition, upgtadeitis is far worse.... wink.gif
Joseph

Haha. True - plus the whole thing (buying a receiver + speakers + sub) isn't really wife approved, so why not pile it on while I already get the eye rolls, right? biggrin.gif I'm no audiophile by any means, but even I know our Viera sounds terrible. She seems to be fine with it though... rolleyes.gif

Really though the size constraints are due to the layout of the room - the TV wall is between the staircase and a short hallway. The receiver is in the closet directly behind the tv, so unless I wanted to do a wireless sub it has to be placed somewhere between the stairs and the hallway, plus we have a tv table to fit in there. The 19" x 20" is really as big as I can go without having it stick out into the hallway width-wise or past the tv stand depth-wise, unless I were to go wireless and put it in another corner of the room.
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post #13 of 21 Old 06-17-2012, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by blakeyj08 View Post

Ah... I just learned what 'WAF' means on this board, and I think it'd be an issue with a large box. The width and depth are constraints - not more than 19" wide and 20" deep.

If you're okay with a pretty tall box (like 40") you can still get a sub similar to the performance of a HSU VTF15 for $300. If it has to be more square you will be fairly limited, but still able to get solid performance. Size equals efficiency when it comes to deep bass, when things get smaller you have to throw more power ($) and woofer ($) at the problem to get the same results.
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post #14 of 21 Old 06-17-2012, 12:54 AM
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WAF is subjective...

That being said... the best placement in your 'space' can only be determined , IMO, is by utilizing the 'sub crawl'. Short of using measuring equipent, is to actually put the sub in the main listening position, yes.. in the seat... and actually crawling around on the floor, with your ears at the level your sub would be located, while playing bass heavy music you're familiar with, and wherever your ears tell you it sounds best, is the best location to place the sub. It really works.

And yes, pile it on... just say it's the 'best i can do, with what i have to work with' ... and then say that the next step up is "A Jericho Horn"

driver complement 6 X 18" woofers, 24 X 5" mids, 12 X 1" compression drivers

, $25000+ " and this is the best next option... and she'll cave... "look honey, I want the best available, within reason, just to make sure I do it right once.."

It worked for me... I'm gonna go Danley's next anyway, but it bought me some time.... wink.gif

Joseph

If you want a really good one, you'll have to learn a foreign language. german, for instance...
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post #15 of 21 Old 06-18-2012, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post

WAF is subjective...

Very true. My wife has finally gotten to the point of compromise, so now, all I have to do is, make sure I tell her I have an order showing up so she's not caught off guard biggrin.gif

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post #16 of 21 Old 06-18-2012, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post

That being said... the best placement in your 'space' can only be determined , IMO, is by utilizing the 'sub crawl'. Short of using measuring equipent, is to actually put the sub in the main listening position, yes.. in the seat... and actually crawling around on the floor, with your ears at the level your sub would be located, while playing bass heavy music you're familiar with, and wherever your ears tell you it sounds best, is the best location to place the sub. It really works.

Interesting, and good to know. Unfortunately like I said there's really only one place we can put the sub, unless I were to get a wireless sub or a wireless adapter for a non-wireless sub (do they even sell those). I noticed on sellout.woot.com today they have the wireless 8" Polk sub - I'd be able to put that anywhere, but sounds like it'd be way too small for my room.
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And yes, pile it on... just say it's the 'best i can do, with what i have to work with' ... and then say that the next step up is "A Jericho Horn"

That...looks...awesome. Do they use those at sports stadiums? If not, they should.
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post #17 of 21 Old 06-18-2012, 01:20 PM
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yeah, they mainly cater to huge churches, amphitheaters, sports arenas, etc. Anywhere you need big sound in a huge space....
They have a great portfolio of completed projects on their website.

Total overkill for a (most) home theater applications, but ... I like overkill. smile.gif
... someday...

If you want a really good one, you'll have to learn a foreign language. german, for instance...
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post #18 of 21 Old 06-18-2012, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post

yeah, they mainly cater to huge churches, amphitheaters, sports arenas, etc. Anywhere you need big sound in a huge space....
They have a great portfolio of completed projects on their website.
Total overkill for a (most) home theater applications, but ... I like overkill. smile.gif
... someday...

Reminds me of the Italian Job when the kid wants speakers that will blow your clothes off
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post #19 of 21 Old 06-19-2012, 08:25 AM
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Wouldn't the PA-150 be just as good or better at a similar price? It gets good reviews for what it's intended for.
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post #20 of 21 Old 06-19-2012, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Wouldn't the PA-150 be just as good or better at a similar price? It gets good reviews for what it's intended for.

PSW505 - $199 at Amazon ($249 now)
PA150 - $425 at Amazon
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post #21 of 21 Old 06-19-2012, 03:40 PM
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PSW505 - $199 at Amazon ($249 now)
PA150 - $425 at Amazon

I think the PA-150 can be had less than $425 or at least it was several weeks ago. I recall seeing $299 with some sort of code. Maybe wrong though.
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