On the market for sub(s) - Need some guidance & input - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 49 Old 06-23-2012, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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After spending about a week tweaking my new onkyo tx-nr5009 with setup in signature, realized i need a actual sub or two small subs. I'm happy with my deftech 8020 towers and 8040 center. But I'm missing out on the real low frequencies. My powered 8020's are only getting down to about 40hz according to Audyssey and I rather just leave them be as good towers with the xover at 80 on them. So, being I have XT32, my choice is get two smaller subs or just get one larger sub and put it in the corner of the room. Room is a open family room, figure 16' x 22' in the actual listening area. I used to run a 12" Infinity BU-1? in the corner with my Beta 50 towers and it sounded pretty darn good. Trying to do this on a budget of some sort. There is a local guy on craigslist selling two Klipsch 12" Synergy subs for $600. Actually found a post for a 6mo old Definitive Trinity tower for 1,200. Let's see what you guys think. Instinct is telling me to try and get the Deftech Trinity tower for 800-1k if it's a real post and checks out.

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post #2 of 49 Old 06-23-2012, 10:03 PM
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If you want to spend that kind of money on a used sub, I would say go for a Rythmik FV15 or HSU VTF-15, money wisely spent. I have an FV15 and it just blows me away!

Jeff
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post #3 of 49 Old 06-24-2012, 02:47 AM
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If the Trinity is in good shape, get it. that is a very good price for such a high performance subwoofer. Especially since you are after deep bass, which is supposedly its strength.
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post #4 of 49 Old 06-24-2012, 08:21 AM
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When it was first introduced the Trinity was one of the better commercial (not Internet Direct) subwoofers. Now there are more choices.

The Trinity has a lot of moving parts. With 2 active drivers and 4 passive radiators that's a lot of moving parts. I checked and the warranty is not transferable so I would most likely skip the Trinity for the Rythmik FV-15 HP. smile.gif
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post #5 of 49 Old 06-24-2012, 08:44 AM
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Is this your Infinity sub? If so, then the HSU VTF-3 MK4, SVS PB12-NSD, Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX, or Epik Legend are all great value Internet direct vendor subs that are a significant improvement in both SPL (volume output) and low frequency extension (a plus for HT usage) over the Infinity you had. Two of them would be incredible in comparison to that single Infinity if you want dual subs.

I'd stay away from the 12" Synergy subs since Newegg often puts the Klipsch RW-12D on sale on average of once or twice a month for $300 (last sale was yesterday--subscribe to their mailing list). And the RW-12D is also an improvement in SPL and low frequency extension over that Infinity.

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post #6 of 49 Old 06-24-2012, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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^thanks for the heads up on the Synergy deal. Craigslist guy is overpriced by far then. As for my Infinity... mine was a lot older than that one. It was a early 2000's I bought off craigslist for $100 a couple years ago. I sold it for $80 when I got my sold my Beta 50 towers and got my DefTech BP-8020's thinking I didn't really need a sub. I guess lets say the budget is $800.

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post #7 of 49 Old 06-24-2012, 10:05 AM
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The VTF3 is still on sale

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk4.html


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post #8 of 49 Old 06-24-2012, 10:14 AM
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With a budget of $800, the SVS, HSU, and Outlaw Audio I listed above are all excellent choices.

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post #9 of 49 Old 06-25-2012, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Did some looking around and the Klipsch subs only get down into the mid 20's. The Deftech subs seem to have good specs. Ebay has quite a few NIB deftech subs. some of the older going out models and some of the newer models. I think I'm just going to buy one that suites me at a good price. Any reason not to go with a deftech sub? Any inherint issues?

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post #10 of 49 Old 06-25-2012, 06:03 AM
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Def Tech often overrates the specs on their subs. For instance, the SuperCube 4000 is rated at 16Hz - 200Hz. But here's what it actually does. eek.gif

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post #11 of 49 Old 06-25-2012, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow. Hence why I really wanted the Trinity or reference sub from Deftech. Other than that the 12" High powered Klipsch looks like a good bang for the buck.


Amazon has 2 NIB Deftech SuperCube I's. for $838 to the door. Phased out model.... the 6,000 is taking it's place I believe. But still, the older larger unit is a better buy IMO. Seriously debating buying one.

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post #12 of 49 Old 06-25-2012, 09:56 AM
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Research the SVS PB12-NSD before buying the SuperCube. Here is a review: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd. I'd bet on the SVS to be the better sub.

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post #13 of 49 Old 06-25-2012, 10:57 AM
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$1,000 for a used Trinity is a hell of a deal. Pretty much double the output of the Reference from a displacement standpoint anyway. I bought my Supercube Reference for $1,650 last year and haven't really had much of a chance to enjoy it between deployments. Since you have Audyssey I would say that you would be happy with their products. They can sound boomy on some content, so I recently ordered an SMS-1 to even out the bass response Reference. It will play 20Hz with authority, but if you try to push it below that, you just get compression. The specs are definitely inflated.

My SMS-1 should be in today, but my HT is in shambles because I’m having some renovations done. Give me a week and I’ll report back to you on if the SMS made a difference. If the SMS can make a difference with this product, then I know XT32 will serve you well!

Regardless, I’ve been given permission to upgrade so the Def Tech is going to be for sale really soon (as soon as parts express re-stocks some more LMS Ultra’s) or it might go in the den where I am moving our plasma to make way for the projector.

It has a small form factor and a huge WAF, but I agree with others regarding there being more bang for the buck out there. Have you checked out CraigSub’s Subwoofer Comparison? It has the Trinity in the Top 10 of what was available back in 2008. If you can scoop one up for $1,200 you would still be getting a deal in my opinion. Hell, I’m going to try to sell my mint condition Reference for $1,200. (I know <--- Good luck right)

 

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post #14 of 49 Old 06-25-2012, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Research the SVS PB12-NSD before buying the SuperCube. Here is a review: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd. I'd bet on the SVS to be the better sub.

I agree. SVS would be the better option.

Several others would be better as well... I don't know why I sugar coated my last posting. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have bought the Def Tech for what I paid for it. If you have the space I know you would be thrilled with the Rythmik FV15HP. I was considering the FV15HP before I decided the exploration of the <10Hz region would be much more satisfying to me.

If you are "one of those" that is all too familiar with the upgraditus bug, I'm not sure any of the aforementioned options would satisfy your itch. =)

Good luck with whatever you decide regardless and be sure to try to stay within your budget, or guys like me might try to convince you to cure that itch.

 

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post #15 of 49 Old 06-25-2012, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I agree. SVS would be the better option.
Several others would be better as well... I don't know why I sugar coated my last posting. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have bought the Def Tech for what I paid for it. If you have the space I know you would be thrilled with the Rythmik FV15HP. I was considering the FV15HP before I decided the exploration of the <10Hz region would be much more satisfying to me.
If you are "one of those" that is all too familiar with the upgraditus bug, I'm not sure any of the aforementioned options would satisfy your itch. =)
Good luck with whatever you decide regardless and be sure to try to stay within your budget, or guys like me might try to convince you to cure that itch.

Definitely consider this statement before you make your choice. You see it written all over this site and amazingly it seems like its ignored time and time again.
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post #16 of 49 Old 06-25-2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FL335i View Post

Wow. Hence why I really wanted the Trinity or reference sub from Deftech. Other than that the 12" High powered Klipsch looks like a good bang for the buck.
Amazon has 2 NIB Deftech SuperCube I's. for $838 to the door. Phased out model.... the 6,000 is taking it's place I believe. But still, the older larger unit is a better buy IMO. Seriously debating buying one.

The Super Cube I is nothing special. The $189 Energy S10.3 performs better.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvieXs2IbzIfdFB1dVFtLW5HeF9yb1o2TjIyU2F1Unc&hl=en_US#gid=0

The S10.3 is on line number 81 while the Super Cube I is on line number 104.
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post #17 of 49 Old 06-25-2012, 03:19 PM
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I really doubt that the s10.3 is going to have more output than the Supercube 1. There are a lot of contradictions on that list, so I wouldn't take it as gospel. While the Supercube 1 isn't a great bang for the buck sub, it ought to have to pretty decent output above 50 hz.
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post #18 of 49 Old 06-25-2012, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to pass on the Deftech subs. So now I have Klipsch SW-115 on my list plus the ones mentioned above ^.



Edit: Down to the VTF-15H or the SW-115. Not much price difference between the two and the VTF seems to be of better build quality. Hell it just looks better built. and it's better reviewed. Going to keep doing some research on both units.


Edit 2: Ok, pretty much sold on the HSU VTF-15H

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post #19 of 49 Old 06-25-2012, 07:12 PM
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Check out this shootout review that includes the VTF-15H. Then you'll really be convinced smile.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1313176

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post #20 of 49 Old 06-26-2012, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebriman View Post

Definitely consider this statement before you make your choice. You see it written all over this site and amazingly it seems like its ignored time and time again.

Haha, yeah it's funny how someone serious about solid output 20Hz and below starts with a $800 budget and it quickly climbs to $3K+...lol

I bought the Supercube Reference before I really started to spend a lot of time on AVS. Definitive Technology is definitely a mass marketed brand. For the form factor / small footprint I think it gives decent output. The reference is under 17" cubed, so it's compact and potent for the most part. It satisfied the itch for awhile until we moved and I was given my own dedicated HT space!

In my search for more I was initially leaning heavily toward the old Epik Conquest, but since I missed that boat by about 4 years (I think the quit producing them in 08'or so?) I would have had to purchase them used off of someone looking to get rid of them. It has a really large footprint, but I was still willing to purchase a pair if I could find a seller. I was asking around the forum about the Conquest and Edogg shot me a PM about his old Conquest and what he was upgrading too. Intro the TC Sounds LMS Ultra... Between Edogg, Notnyt and lukeamdman's systems I was sold! Especially luke's sick video of his Ultra's in action.

To each their own, but I personally had to have a piece of that action. I will be ordering two as soon as parts express has them back in stock. My space is under 1,400 cubic feet and based on what I have researched, a pair of Ultras are going to pressurize it nicely... =)

Hopefully satisfying that itch I'm having trouble getting rid of...

Regarding your comments about being sold on the VTF-15H, checkout this Shootout comparing it against the Empire, CHT 18.1, Rythmik FV15 and the eD A7s-450. I’ve linked you to the post where the thread starter agreed with me that if “if you really want to reach the lower octaves I would invest the money…into something that could get you close now,” which is a direct reference to the Ultra's.

If you think the VTF-15H will satisfy you for years to come and you won't be itching for an upgrade in a few years, then go for it. If not, I suggest you do yourself a favor now by purchasing something that will give you the headroom you may think you will need in the future, vs having to make another purchase or upgrade.

 

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post #21 of 49 Old 06-26-2012, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I think the VTF-15H will be fine. It's in my family room, not a HT room. So I can't have it totaly fileld with speakers. I'll be fine, prices is spot on and compare to a best buy special.... it's much better.

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post #22 of 49 Old 06-26-2012, 11:05 AM
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Klipsch Reference RW-12d has only one BIG flaw, PORT NOISE !!!! There is nothing worse than a low rumble topped off with port noise. The Klipsch RW-12d forum has hundreds of unhappy owners, there is no fix, just turn it down. Klipsch addressed the problem and said it would of been a trade-off, Klipsch went with more power for all the people, and some will have to deal with port noise at times.. But its still a good deal at under $300.. Most ported subs will have port noise when pushed, so get a sealed sub and live happy for ever...
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post #23 of 49 Old 07-05-2012, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Update. Ok guys, everyone's input has gotten me to this point. After seriously sitting down with a budget, here are my options. From most expensive to cheapest. All prices are "to the door" lock stalk & barrel. I really Let's try to keep this in perspective. Open the flood gates.... now.


VTF-15H $1,018 On the high end of the budget spectrum.

SuperCube I $838 This is an older model that is not in production. there is literally 1 left in stock. This guy and the prosub 1000 are the highly reviewed subs from deftech.

VTF3-MK4 $798

VTF2-MK4 $582

ProSub 1000 $499 How bad is this thing? It has awsome user reviews on every sale outlet. Seems to be a good bang for the buck item.

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post #24 of 49 Old 07-05-2012, 10:32 AM
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May the force be with you young skywalker.

With only having experience owning the Supercube, I'm crossing my fingers that at least one of those will satisfy your LFEitch. <---I think I may have just made up my new favorite word.
I'll tell you right now, don't go for the Supercube. I have a Reference, which is the next step up from the I and for a short period I owned the III, II and I, but kept finding myself wanting more. It only took about 3 weeks of ownership before I caught the itch again, but I didn't want to drop $3K for a Trinity so I just lived with what I had... IMHO output is adequate for 40hz and up, but my Supercube Reference never came close to the sub 20hz output I was looking for.

I'm sure whatever you get will please the senses, the trick is to make sure it's enough the first time to avoid upgrades.

Good luck!

 

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post #25 of 49 Old 07-05-2012, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Well i'm looking at cost. I have other hobbies and responsibilities. I'm just looking at my options. Realisticaly i'm going to end up witha HSU of some fashion.

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post #26 of 49 Old 07-05-2012, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Came to my senses. VTF-15H or VTF3-MK4. Now it's just a cost item. is the 15H worth X more than the MK4. Wish I could listen to them both. Probably err on the side of the 15H.

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post #27 of 49 Old 07-05-2012, 04:43 PM
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The VTF15h will have more output and headroom than a VTF3, but that isn't why you should get it. You should get it to see the expressions on your friend's faces when you show them the beast.
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post #28 of 49 Old 07-05-2012, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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^ will have awe at the sheer physical size or the sound?

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post #29 of 49 Old 07-05-2012, 05:35 PM
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both.
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post #30 of 49 Old 07-05-2012, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
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both.

I will second that now my friends are budgeting for the VTF-15H as it pretty much shamed their units.
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