Audioholics reviewed the SVS SB12-NSD - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer View Post

I have now doubt those 2 are awesome performers, but expensive and bigger. I would love to see the F12SE measured and see if it really is only down 2 dB at 14 Hz.

I doubt it would be at max clean output, but the base FR could be. It could be some internal EQing in the amp to make it that flat. You also have the options of shaping the low end roll off with bass extensions controls and some parametric EQ controls.
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post #32 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The SVS outperforms the Outlaw by a much wider margin than I would have thought.

You must mean the Emotiva. It doesn't outperform the Outlaw sub.
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post #33 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Why are you all hot under the collar. Its just a sub. You chose to purchase the SB12-NSD way before this review, which proves your mind was made up already. I was the one telling you, before rushing to judgment, wait until a 3rd party review came out. Now you lambasted me then for admonishing you as such. Now you're trying throw this in my face. Also, if real world listening reviews doesn't matter, why does Audioholics give them? Or do they just post measurement and call it day. What demands to review the SB-12 are you talking? You call a few worshipers at the alter of all things SVS fanboys a demand. Anyway, that review was nothing special or spectacular, quite honestly, it seemed to be a little cookie cutter to me.
Just enjoy your SB12-NSD. I'm sure its a good sub, never said it wasn't, big deal. So what if your Accord crank out few extra MPG and few extra HP than guy'next door Camry, geez!!

For a while you were inclined to believe only SCIENCE i.e actual measurements by a reputable third party of your choice. Now the science is out but you are looking for subjective remarks because the science is not in favor of X-Ref12? This is the kind of flip flopping politicians do :-)

Talking about the demand for a review, go back to your posts and count how many times you asked for an authentic review of the SB12 so that it can be compared head to head with the X-Ref12

Again and again, it is you who is trying to console yourself about your over priced under performing purchase. If X-Ref12 were like $450 shipped, I would not have hesitated to buy it. My biggest A/V blunder was not to have bought the Ultra-12 when it was $329 shipped.
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post #34 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

You must mean the Emotiva. It doesn't outperform the Outlaw sub.

You are correct. The Emo is exactly what I meant. I edited my post.
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post #35 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 07:21 AM
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It seems like the shortcomings of the Xref12 have been well documented and beat to death, especially at its price and with the great performance of the SB12. What do you guys think about the Xref10? It seems like a much better buy, especially at $400. Any other compact subs in the same price range that you would put in front of the Xref 10?

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post #36 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer View Post

It seems like the shortcomings of the Xref12 have been well documented and beat to death, especially at its price and with the great performance of the SB12. What do you guys think about the Xref10? It seems like a much better buy, especially at $400. Any other compact subs in the same price range that you would put in front of the Xref 10?

None that I can think of. I believe the X-Ref 10 performs very close to the Ultra 12 making it a great musical sub for a smaller room. I would choose this sub and then step up to the SB12nsd if I needed more output/extension.

BTW, Its good to know that the SB12nsd is a solid performer both subjectively and scientifically.wink.gif
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post #37 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 09:24 AM
 
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For a while you were inclined to believe only SCIENCE i.e actual measurements by a reputable third party of your choice. Now the science is out but you are looking for subjective remarks because the science is not in favor of X-Ref12? This is the kind of flip flopping politicians do

Let's not forget that a sub is piece of audio gear used for real world content or do you purchase it and conduct measurements all day? I like prefer science because it keeps the crazies in check , however outdoors measure don't tell the entire story. If you remember a lot my cut and paste were of the glowing "subjective" comments made by Audioholics about the X-Ref 12.

Talking about the demand for a review, go back to your posts and count how many times you asked for an authentic review of the SB12 so that it can be compared head to head with the X-Ref12
Again and again, it is you who is trying to console yourself about your over priced under performing purchase.

Just because I called for a review from Audioholics doesn't mean there was some kind great out cry for a review of the SB12-NSD. Also, I told you that I had no quarrell with you about the price, I never argued if X-Ref 12 was worth the price. Also, I told you I didn't pay for it at its adverstised price. The price I paid was cheaper than what was being asked for the SB12-NSD at the time.
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If X-Ref12 were like $450 shipped, I would not have hesitated to buy it. My biggest A/V blunder was not to have bought the Ultra-12 when it was $329 shipped.

Again, I won't quibble over price with you. I read these threads a lot and see people making ridiculous overkill purchases all of the time.
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post #38 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I read these threads a lot and see people making ridiculous overkill purchases all of the time.

I see it as well in this hobby and others, but what people do with their money is no concern of mine.

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post #39 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 09:51 AM
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So now you are not happy with the outdoor "scientific" measurements and want to see how it does inside a room? I bet you will also not want any movies with a lot of bass used for the review as you don't want a sub to be a "boom" box. The measurements are done outside in order to eliminate the effect of the room on the measurements. Even if the measurements were done inside, you would then argue that the response may be different in a different room so it would not count.

Like I said, it is just a sour grape type of argument again and again. You are going to twist any type of review or measurement so that you can come up with a consolation that it is not better than X-Ref12.
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post #40 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I read these threads a lot and see people making ridiculous overkill purchases all of the time.

I see it as well in this hobby and others, but what people do with their money is no concern of mine.

when it comes to subwoofage, there is no such thing as "overkill"... smile.gif

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post #41 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

when it comes to subwoofage, there is no such thing as "overkill"... smile.gif

Absolutely. Speaking of which, any more SubM's in your immediate future wink.gif.

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post #42 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

OK, so it beats my beloved X-Ref 12. smile.gif However the for the SB12-NSD, I'm not blown away by that review. Still possess small sealed subwoofer shortcomings.

I don't think ANYBODY in this thread claimed that the SB12 overcomes its small sub shortcomings.

But what people in this thread *do* appreciate is how well rounded the sub performs compared to many other subs in its size and price range.

For somebody looking for a small sub in this price range, this is a sub that should be at the top of your consideration list

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post #43 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

when it comes to subwoofage, there is no such thing as "overkill"... smile.gif

Absolutely. Speaking of which, any more SubM's in your immediate future wink.gif.

if i can figure out a way to get them in here... tongue.gif

actually, i've been mentally kicking around an ib setup... smile.gif but only mentally... maybe next year...

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post #44 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 12:47 PM
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The Emotiva X-Ref 10 scored higher on bass accuracy than the X-Ref 12 or the SB12-nsd.Better sub for music?
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post #45 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i've been mentally kicking around an ib setup... smile.gif but only mentally... maybe next year...

I heard my first pair of IB subs at a GTG last weekend--very cool...

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post #46 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 02:11 PM
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Ordered mine last night based on the overwhelmingly positive reviews biggrin.gif

Should be a great addition to my apartment HT.

 
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post #47 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

Like I said, it is just a sour grape type of argument again and again. You are going to twist any type of review or measurement so that you can come up with a consolation that it is not better than X-Ref12.

+1
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post #48 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dayton10 View Post

The Emotiva X-Ref 10 scored higher on bass accuracy than the X-Ref 12 or the SB12-nsd.Better sub for music?

A few things to keep in mind:
1. The ratings are subjective.
2. The same person did not rate all 3 subs (Gene reviewed the XRef10, Ricci reviewed the XRef12 and SVS)
3. The three subs were not directly compared.
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post #49 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 10:08 PM
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Just thought I'd chime in here. Now that we are putting the finishing touches on the new basement, I got to install 2 new SB12-nsd subs. Couldn't be happier, and they are small enough that WAF isn't an issue.

They are used equally for music and movies. Of course the music is great with these subs, but I was nervous about output during movies. Well a quick trip down Tranformers 3, Thor, and X-Men First Class lane quickly put those fears to rest.

It's great seeing a review that quantifies my experince, but even a bad review wouldn't diminish my enthusiasm for the SB12-nsd.

One note though: I tried my area (about 2500 cubic feet) with a single sub at first, and it certainly was not enough. After turning on the second, the response on the room was a lot more even and powerful. Which of course makes since, but I can't really describe how incredible the effect of running two was. I only mention this because I was on the fence as to get two or not. Needless to say, I am glad I did and thought my experience might help someone else.
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post #50 of 58 Old 07-05-2012, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by nulfire View Post

Just thought I'd chime in here. Now that we are putting the finishing touches on the new basement, I got to install 2 new SB12-nsd subs. Couldn't be happier, and they are small enough that WAF isn't an issue.
They are used equally for music and movies. Of course the music is great with these subs, but I was nervous about output during movies. Well a quick trip down Tranformers 3, Thor, and X-Men First Class lane quickly put those fears to rest.
It's great seeing a review that quantifies my experince, but even a bad review wouldn't diminish my enthusiasm for the SB12-nsd.
One note though: I tried my area (about 2500 cubic feet) with a single sub at first, and it certainly was not enough. After turning on the second, the response on the room was a lot more even and powerful. Which of course makes since, but I can't really describe how incredible the effect of running two was. I only mention this because I was on the fence as to get two or not. Needless to say, I am glad I did and thought my experience might help someone else.

The integration with the rest of the system is improved, which gives it an enveloping kind of quality.
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post #51 of 58 Old 07-06-2012, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

This was already posted in the SVS owner's thread (by user Matt34), but for those who don't regularly visit that thread....
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/sb12-nsd-subwoofer
Awesome performance for such a small sub. I think this puts to rest the argument of the Emotiva X-Ref 12 vs SB12-NSD.
The SVS is clearly the better performer - better extension at both ends, lower distortion, higher max SPL (except at 50Hz & 63Hz where the X-Ref 12 has a peak in response)... and Josh Ricci commented on the excellent sound quality as well...
Now if AH would just measure the NHT B-12d as well... so we know who is king of the small sealed subs right now...
I second that. Reviews of NHT 12 are hard to come by.
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post #52 of 58 Old 07-07-2012, 03:21 PM
 
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except at 50Hz & 63Hz where the X-Ref 12 has a peak in response

A most important area for a true audiophile (i.e. Music Lover. smooth jazz, vocals, etc.)biggrin.gif
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post #53 of 58 Old 07-07-2012, 07:55 PM
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The integration with the rest of the system is improved, which gives it an enveloping kind of quality.

Yeah, that's it. Thanks for the help!
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post #54 of 58 Old 07-07-2012, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Quote:
except at 50Hz & 63Hz where the X-Ref 12 has a peak in response
A most important area for a true audiophile (i.e. Music Lover. smooth jazz, vocals, etc.)biggrin.gif

And after 70Hz it drops like a rock LOL

Keep in mind that those X-Ref12 measurements were also made outside. So "real life" SPL inside a room may not be the same i.e you may not get that "true audiophile" peak inside the room. It could be a null or the peak could get exaggerated and sound boomy. You are contradicting your own statement made before regarding real life listening i.e outdoor measurements don't count.

If I remember correctly, the peak at 50 or 63Hz is due to the EQ boost applied at the lower frequency. It is not like Emotiva designed that on purpose with a Smooth Jazz lover in mind. LOL. Just another "sour grape" argument.

If the response of a sub is flat like that of the SB12, it will satisfy a true audiophile of any kind. LOL. A true audiophile need not be restricted to 50-63Hz. He or she could enjoy 21-310 Hz LOL again.
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post #55 of 58 Old 07-08-2012, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

And after 70Hz it drops like a rock LOL
Keep in mind that those X-Ref12 measurements were also made outside. So "real life" SPL inside a room may not be the same i.e you may not get that "true audiophile" peak inside the room. It could be a null or the peak could get exaggerated and sound boomy. You are contradicting your own statement made before regarding real life listening i.e outdoor measurements don't count.
If I remember correctly, the peak at 50 or 63Hz is due to the EQ boost applied at the lower frequency. It is not like Emotiva designed that on purpose with a Smooth Jazz lover in mind. LOL. Just another "sour grape" argument.
If the response of a sub is flat like that of the SB12, it will satisfy a true audiophile of any kind. LOL. A true audiophile need not be restricted to 50-63Hz. He or she could enjoy 21-310 Hz LOL again.

The FR of the X-Ref does not drop like a rock above 70 hz, if you like at the CEA measurements it is only down 3 db from 63 hz to 125. In it's natural FR, it looks like a difference of 5 db at the most from its peak at 60 hz to 100 hz. In other words you would have to be listening for that specifically to hear it, and wouldn't notice it otherwise. I don't care about either sub personally, but let's be fair, its upper end roll off isn't nearly as severe as you make it out to be.
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post #56 of 58 Old 07-08-2012, 07:26 AM
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Stupid newb type question but im considering the svs for dual music ht duty. I only see one set of input jacks. How does one run thissub for both. Thanks
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post #57 of 58 Old 07-08-2012, 10:13 AM
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Use a Y-splitter in the sub-out jack in the back of your AVR to break the sub signal into two outputs.
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post #58 of 58 Old 07-08-2012, 11:31 AM
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