Sub Help Needed....Badly - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi All

I'm a new guy here. I've been lurking for a few months but I've reached frustration, so now it's time for me to ask for help. Here's my story.

Room stats:
Total room size is 33' x 17' x 8' and it does not open into any other area
Theater / listening portion of room is 17' length x 14' wide
Low pile carpeted floors on padding on wood
Axiom M60, QS8, VP150 (and M22's if I do 7.1) speakers
Denon AVR (forget which model)

I used to have an older Hsu VTF-3 I believe was the model. When we moved, I was forced to sell it because it is way to heavy (about 95 lbs) for me at this tender age of 61. I loved that sub.

So my problem now is limited budget - under $1,000 if my marriage is to last, $1,200 or so if I'm in a risk taking mode. We will do 40% TV, 35% movies and 25% music. I do not crank too loudly too often, but when I do, I enjoy feeling the rocket launch, galloping horses, and depth charges in my gut. The music we listen too is primarily jazz, classical, show tunes and classic rock. I need the notes that come from the stand up bass to sound articulate - muddy and sloppy drive me crazy. Oh yeah, one final caveat. I have to be able to lift or at the very least easily drag around the unit(s). This means under 65lbs, with 50lbs or less being the ideal.

So to sum it up, for my nice big room, I need an under 65 lb, musically accurate, and semi-gut wrenching subwoofer for around $1,000.

I've looked at the SVS PC12-NSD (the PC12-Plus would be ideal but is too heavy)
I've contemplated the DefTech SuperCube 4000/6000 (the few reviews I read sound so-so)
The Outlaw EX and the appropriate Hsu models are too heavy

Any and all ideas will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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post #2 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 01:41 PM
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Have you considered DIY? An AVS member has been creating flatpack sealed subwoofer boxes: you glue them together, finish them yourself, and screw in the sub--no box building required. I think you could do two 12" Dayton Audio driver sealed subs with amp and EQ for around $1000. This could work well if you can put one near your listening position. Here's the thread discussing these flatpacks: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1403689/dimensions-for-sealed-18-sub-box/180#post_22049593

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post #3 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Have you considered DIY? An AVS member has been creating flatpack sealed subwoofer boxes: you glue them together, finish them yourself, and screw in the sub--no box building required. I think you could do two 12" Dayton Audio driver sealed subs with amp and EQ for around $1000. This could work well if you can put one near your listening position. Here's the thread discussing these flatpacks: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1403689/dimensions-for-sealed-18-sub-box/180#post_22049593

Your suggestion is a good one. Dual Dayton 12 inch would almost certainly outperform a pair of SVS SB-12 NSD's at $1,149 delivered, especially since you are including EQ in your suggested package. Of course the dual SVS-SB 12's are complete, have been professionaly tested, have a nice finish, and have a 5 year warranty on the driver and amp.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/sb12-nsd-subwoofer
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post #4 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 03:05 PM
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It sounds like the PC12-NSD is your best bet. The above mentioned Daytons weight 60 lbs sans driver, so they will probably exceed 70 with driver. I think the cylinder subs will be easier and less awkward to lift and carry as well. Dual SB12s will have better performance overall though, but I don't think so much better that its worth a strain on your marriage. If the Emotiva X-Ref 12 was more than just 15% off I would say go for a pair of those, as those are very light (43 lbs) and don't have too shabby performance, but as it is now they are too close in price to the SB12, which has greater extension, to recommend.
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post #5 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The above mentioned Daytons weight 60 lbs sans driver, so they will probably exceed 70 with driver.

Oops. I linked to the box for the 15" driver. Here's the one for the 12". Comes in at 40lbs.

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post #6 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

It sounds like the PC12-NSD is your best bet. The above mentioned Daytons weight 60 lbs sans driver, so they will probably exceed 70 with driver. I think the cylinder subs will be easier and less awkward to lift and carry as well. Dual SB12s will have better performance overall though, but I don't think so much better that its worth a strain on your marriage. If the Emotiva X-Ref 12 was more than just 15% off I would say go for a pair of those, as those are very light (43 lbs) and don't have too shabby performance, but as it is now they are too close in price to the SB12, which has greater extension, to recommend.

The PC-12 NSD or PB-12 NSD (for that matter) are both excellent performers. Duals have the advantage of smoothing which has a lot of appeal for some. With their bumper to bumper 5 year warranty SVS is a very safe choice and test beautifully. Josh Ricci mentions that dual SB-12 NSD can begin to deliver the goods.
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post #7 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 04:21 PM
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I would advice two smaller subwoofers (SVS has some sealed ones at 35 lbs ) and maybe some bass shakers for those galloping horses.. lighter and easier to setup and move around if needed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilK1 View Post

So my problem now is limited budget - under $1,000 if my marriage is to last, $1,200 or so if I'm in a risk taking mode. .

JL Audio sells subs in the $3000 .. just in case :-)
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post #8 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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You guys are great. Thanks for all the responses. I'm leaning toward the SVS PC12-NSD. If I feel unsatisfied with it, perhaps I'll add another after the initial budget crunch subsides.

Just out of curiosity, are any of the Rel or Sunfire subwoofers worthy of consideration? Thanks.

Phil
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post #9 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 05:25 PM
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A couple Epik Legends could easily be on your consideration list. $900 before shipping. Classy dual opposed design. Epik sounds great with music and does well in home theater too. 80lbs shipping weight - I'm not sure what the actual product weight is....But it might be around 70lbs. Maybe a little heavy compared to your initial restrictions - - - but what's the fear of a little extra weight?

http://epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html

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post #10 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I had back surgery and I have to be real careful with moving, lifting, etc. So it's mostly fear of re-injuring myself. Logic dictates, though, that whether the sub is 50 lbs or 150 lbs, once in place, there it shall stay hence forth. Now it's just a matter of logic beating out the fear. I'll take a peek at the Epiks. Thanks.

Phil
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post #11 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 07:48 PM
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I have dual epik legends in a small home theater. They sound great, and I have had no trouble with them. The problem is the amps get very warm....
as in hot, and heat kills electronics. If I had to do it over I would go with the SVS SB12NSD duals. At 34 lbs they are light. Epik legends do not weigh in
at 70 or 80 lbs.....more like 60 lbs. I know what it's like to have a bad back (damage to 6 disks). The legends have a 3 yr warranty on electronics,
SVS has 5....which is almost unhead of. Just some honest info.

vardo
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post #12 of 14 Old 07-09-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilK1 View Post

I had back surgery and I have to be real careful with moving, lifting, etc. So it's mostly fear of re-injuring myself. Logic dictates, though, that whether the sub is 50 lbs or 150 lbs, once in place, there it shall stay hence forth.

Logic dictates dropping your budget to $950, and get the one you want regardless of weight. Use the left over $50 to get someone younger to come move it for you wink.gif

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post #13 of 14 Old 07-10-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilK1 View Post

You guys are great. Thanks for all the responses. I'm leaning toward the SVS PC12-NSD. If I feel unsatisfied with it, perhaps I'll add another after the initial budget crunch subsides.
Just out of curiosity, are any of the Rel or Sunfire subwoofers worthy of consideration? Thanks.
Phil

The PC-12NSD weighs 59 pounds. The PB-12 NSD weighs 66 pounds.

If I remember correctly there are a couple of minor differences with the PB having a slightly different driver.

The PB will be much less conspicuous.
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post #14 of 14 Old 07-11-2012, 10:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilK1 View Post

You guys are great. Thanks for all the responses. I'm leaning toward the SVS PC12-NSD. If I feel unsatisfied with it, perhaps I'll add another after the initial budget crunch subsides.
Just out of curiosity, are any of the Rel or Sunfire subwoofers worthy of consideration? Thanks.
Phil

I wouldn't get the PC12-NSD if you want to listen to jazz and hear all those notes. Go for the sealed subs, two if you can afford it.
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