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post #1 of 35 Old 07-10-2012, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Dear all,

I own two Jamo D650 subs and i have the D600 5 channel THX setup in my 16ft long10ft wide and 9ft high room. I had the chance to try the Jamo D600 15" THX sub and remove the 12" duals i have. I must say that the 15" THX sub is super powerful, but i still cannot decide which once to stick to. Either the dual 12" or one single 15". Two 15" would be overkill for my room so i have to decide between these two. Can anybody help please?
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post #2 of 35 Old 07-10-2012, 10:38 AM
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I had the chance to try the Jamo D600 15" THX sub and remove the 12" duals i have. I must say that the 15" THX sub is super powerful, but i still cannot decide which once to stick to.
According to the Jamo website, the D650s put out 650W peak each, and their FR is 24-200Hz +/- ?dB. The D600 puts out 1600W peak and the FR is 20-200Hz +/- ?dB.

This appears to indicate that the D600 will dig deeper than the D650s, and should play at least as loud as them. The trade-off could be less-even FR at the listening position (but not necessarily).

What did you find when you demo'd the D600? Was it more satisfying overall than the D650s? If 'yes', go with the D600. If 'no', continue to enjoy your dual D650s. smile.gif
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post #3 of 35 Old 07-10-2012, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by joebuzz View Post

Dear all,
I own two Jamo D650 subs and i have the D600 5 channel THX setup in my 16ft long10ft wide and 9ft high room. I had the chance to try the Jamo D600 15" THX sub and remove the 12" duals i have. I must say that the 15" THX sub is super powerful, but i still cannot decide which once to stick to. Either the dual 12" or one single 15". Two 15" would be overkill for my room so i have to decide between these two. Can anybody help please?

Ummm, you heard both but you want people who have not heard them to tell you which sounded better to you? The only thing that matters is which you liked better. We can't duplicate your listening experience. Around here there is no such thing as overkill.

There is no clear answer to your question which is asked all the time. Some people prefer lesser dual subs and some people prefer a single more powerful sub. It is entirely up to you. smile.gif
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post #4 of 35 Old 07-10-2012, 03:02 PM
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Always go with dual subwoofers instead of a single sub.
Regardless of the size and shape of your home theater.
You can't beat the smoother bass reponse you'll get with two subwoofers.

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post #5 of 35 Old 07-11-2012, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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What i heard and noticed is that the D600 is very powerful, too much for my room even though after calibration anyone can tame it for any room. it goes deeper than the 650 but as someone suggested, the bass with the twin subs to me is smoother in a way i cannot explain. punch from the D600 is incredible and noticible as soon as you start a movie you will realize this. This evening i am trying something i never tought i would do, i will try them all 3 together to see the results.

My other problem is that i have a unit up front in the room, where i have the equipment and the way i designed the room that is the only place where i can put the subs, so basically i will have 3 subs up front, two 12" and one beast 15", if always i will decide to keep them all. Time to think, as I will have to run Audessey again aaaaaa...that is the only pain and takes quite some time to do, but i will be busy after work today at least.
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post #6 of 35 Old 07-11-2012, 05:19 AM
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So, what I read is:
- A single D600 has more punch and digs deeper than dual D650s.
- Dual D650s seem to provide a smoother overall response than a single D600.

I would try this experiment: Hook up only one D650, calibrate your system and see how that sounds at your LP. Hook up the second D650, re-calibrate your system and see how / if that changes anything. If you don't notice a significant difference in the smoothness of the FR when going from one D650 to two, it may be that you're "imagining" the smoother response from the dual D650s than from the single D600 because the latter has a very different sound from the former.

Ultimately, it may come down to choosing more output and extension vs. a (negligibly? noticeably? significantly?) smoother response. That's a personal choice.

I would likely choose the D600. (And I'd leave open the option of adding a second one later on.)

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post #7 of 35 Old 07-11-2012, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Will have some time to play around this evening. But as i said, i am considering to try all the subs connected at once to check if they work any better. Maybe it will be overkill, but as explained by someone who answered one of my queries, here is never overkill.

Just a simple question to have your suggestion about this. Why would you choose the D600 sub in your opinion?
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post #8 of 35 Old 07-11-2012, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Ummm, you heard both but you want people who have not heard them to tell you which sounded better to you? The only thing that matters is which you liked better. We can't duplicate your listening experience. Around here there is no such thing as overkill.
There is no clear answer to your question which is asked all the time. Some people prefer lesser dual subs and some people prefer a single more powerful sub. It is entirely up to you. smile.gif

Yes sorry about that, i know that it sounds wrong when i want suggestions from your side and you are not hearing anything. But that is why i got confused in the first place. You see, when i bought the D600 5 channel setup, our Jamo supplier was out of stock with the D600 sub, so i did not want to wait and bought the D650, whcih was good at first, but after coming off from a 15" sub, i tought maybe i could try another D650 and get two instead of one. When i tried two, i found out that still the punch the 15" was better, but with two subs i had better bass in every seating position and it smoothed out the bass response in my room(and i have only 3 in my room).

This week the installer called me and told me that the D600 sub is now in stock if i would like to try it out. Now with one D600 sub i have better punch, but bass is not ideally spread in the room as when i had two subs. I will try them all hooked up tonight and let you know what i will hear, if i will hear anything better. Maybe with the 3 subs hooked up i will have the best of both worlds, punch and smoothness all at once. Thank you all for all the great help you alway offer. AVS rocks.
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post #9 of 35 Old 07-11-2012, 09:41 AM
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Just a simple question to have your suggestion about this. Why would you choose the D600 sub in your opinion?
First, I'll clarify that I'm assuming two things:
1. The difference in FR "smoothness" between dual subs and a single sub is either negligible or can be addressed by proper placement of the single sub.
2. The D600 is at least as "tight" sounding as the D650s.

Given these assumptions, I would go with the D600 because it appears to offer better extension, output and "slam" vs. dual D650s.
Quote:
Maybe with the 3 subs hooked up i will have the best of both worlds, punch and smoothness all at once.
Rather than have three subs, sell the D650s and put the money toward a second D600. That way, you'll have all the extension, output and punch you need in a nice, dual-sub set-up! smile.gif
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post #10 of 35 Old 07-11-2012, 10:58 AM
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You have ALL the answers from the members here. Now it is up to you to act on these recommendations and decide for yourself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Quote:
I had the chance to try the Jamo D600 15" THX sub and remove the 12" duals i have. I must say that the 15" THX sub is super powerful, but i still cannot decide which once to stick to.
... The trade-off could be less-even FR at the listening position (but not necessarily).
What did you find when you demo'd the D600? Was it more satisfying overall than the D650s? If 'yes', go with the D600. If 'no', continue to enjoy your dual D650s. smile.gif
Perfect response.

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Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

Always go with dual subwoofers instead of a single sub.
Regardless of the size and shape of your home theater.
You can't beat the smoother bass reponse you'll get with two subwoofers.
Except SPL and FR (possibly). I think he should say "A lot of the time, go with duals". I don't agree with ALWAYS since we are talking about single sub A vs dual sub B's.

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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Quote:
Just a simple question to have your suggestion about this. Why would you choose the D600 sub in your opinion?
First, I'll clarify that I'm assuming two things:
1. The difference in FR "smoothness" between dual subs and a single sub is either negligible or can be addressed by proper placement of the single sub.
Yeah, but the optimal placement might not be as practical as placing duals.

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post #11 of 35 Old 07-11-2012, 11:45 AM
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Yeah, but the optimal placement might not be as practical as placing duals.
In the real world, it might not be. In my assumption, it is. smile.gif
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post #12 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 02:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys,

Yesterday as promised I Tried the 3 subs together, and after some SPL measurments (i dumped Audessey for now to do quick setups) i found out that bass is evenly distributed in my room. From my 3 seating positions (have only 3 seats in my room) now i feel the bass is really much better dirstibuted and balanced out. Depth and punch are impressive, and i feel the room shaking like mad when needed in a Movie. A clear example yesterday i tried Ghost protocol, and the opening scene after the opening titles there is a big explosion which i felt the room shaking like never before. Impressive was the fact that since i am using 3 subs, the levels of the subs while setting them up is close to nothing, i mean the D600 is on -9 with the processor at 0db, and the D650 are closed all the way down with the processor on 0db again. Not even close to clipping the subs but still the subs gave immensive impact to the whole experience.

I admit that the D600 is a much better sub than the D650, better depth and punch/slam, so i guess who suggested to me that i try to sell the two D650 subs to get another D600 is really giving me the best advice possible. i think with two D600 subs in my room i would really have all i would ever dream of, at least for now! You know how things are in the home cinema circle, a never ending story. Only problem now is that i have to put the other D600 in the back of the room, as the only space i have avilable is the front unit, which will only fit one D600 and two D650. Here in Malta we have very small rooms, but maybe that is a problem i can think about later on.

If i can ask has anyone had experience with the D600 sub and compared it to other subs how does this work out? We are very limited when it comes to brands here in Malta, so we do not have the opportunites to go to a hifi shop and buy whichever sub you like off the shelf, and most of the brands are unheard of, so i am asking for an honest opinion if this sub is good enough, or not even close to a proper sub that i can purcahse. thank you.
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post #13 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 04:23 AM
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Depth and punch are impressive, and i feel the room shaking like mad when needed in a Movie.
That sounds very satisfying! cool.gif
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Originally Posted by joebuzz 
I admit that the D600 is a much better sub than the D650, better depth and punch/slam, so i guess who suggested to me that i try to sell the two D650 subs to get another D600 is really giving me the best advice possible.
You're welcome. biggrin.gif
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post #14 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

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Depth and punch are impressive, and i feel the room shaking like mad when needed in a Movie.
That sounds very satisfying! cool.gif
You're welcome. biggrin.gif
Yeah thanks only after i realized that it was very easy to find who suggested me to go for the new sub haha. thanks man i really appreciate. Did you have chance to try the D600 sub? Alone it is very good, but the headroom i got with all the subs hooked makes me think that i should keep them all. what do you think?
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post #15 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 05:36 AM
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My suggestion is, what do you think you will gain by changing it? If the gains are marginal, is it worth it to you? Is what you have now satisfying? Maybe you want more? Right now, it is all up to your satisfaction and requirements... no one here can make that decision for you, however, 99% will say get more subs if $$$ allow biggrin.gif

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post #16 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by joebuzz 
Yeah thanks only after i realized that it was very easy to find who suggested me to go for the new sub haha.
No worries - I was just yanking your chain. But I'm glad to be able to help. smile.gif
Quote:
Did you have chance to try the D600 sub? Alone it is very good, but the headroom i got with all the subs hooked makes me think that i should keep them all. what do you think?
No, I've never heard the D600, but the specs look decent and, clearly, it's got the goods.

IMO, if you're enjoying having three subs and they all play nice together, keep all three. My personal preference would be to sell the "lesser" D650s and end up with a pair of kick-@ss D600s: You get all the performance you need + the smoother FR and symmetry (who doesn't like symmetry?! wink.gif) of duals. cool.gif
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post #17 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

No worries - I was just yanking your chain. But I'm glad to be able to help. smile.gif
No, I've never heard the D600, but the specs look decent and, clearly, it's got the goods.
IMO, if you're enjoying having three subs and they all play nice together, keep all three. My personal preference would be to sell the "lesser" D650s and end up with a pair of kick-@ss D600s: You get all the performance you need + the smoother FR and symmetry (who doesn't like symmetry?! wink.gif) of duals. cool.gif
Saw your images, nice setup you have there. Two big 18" guns also! Did you reasearch for the positioning of the Subs the way they are placed in your room or you just placed them this way to look good? Mine are similar placed but as mentioned before becasue my room is not big i had to do the subs in the front unit, i will try to take photo tonight and will send it to you, but obviously right now i have 3 subs, which i think i will get down to two again. Thank you.
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post #18 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joebuzz 
Saw your images, nice setup you have there.
Thanks! smile.gif
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Two big 18" guns also!
Yup! cool.gif
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Did you reasearch for the positioning of the Subs the way they are placed in your room or you just placed them this way to look good?
I did the sub crawl and found that the front left corner provides the best gain. Unfortunately, it also makes subs very "localize-able". The two spots the subs are currently in provide both the next-best amount of gain and, as my good luck would have it, the symmetry I like to see. biggrin.gif
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post #19 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Thanks! smile.gif
Quote:
Two big 18" guns also!
Yup! cool.gif
I did the sub crawl and found that the front left corner provides the best gain. Unfortunately, it also makes subs very "localize-able". The two spots the subs are currently in provide both the next-best amount of gain and, as my good luck would have it, the symmetry I like to see. biggrin.gif
Nice man, and good to know that it worked out great for you. Using Audessey? Or manual calibration? I wanted to make the sub crawl thing, but since i did the front unit and the complete room before i bought the subs, if i do it now and the best place would be different from the front, i am screwed. Amps, processor and player are all situated up front, together with the subs, so i am quite tight with space. To me it sounds good now, but we always want something better. BTW you think i am doing a mistake becasue the subs are all situated in the front unit itself, and not on the floor. You think i should cut out the unit so that the subs basically sit on the carpet floor instead? Thanks.
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post #20 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by joebuzz 
Using Audessey? Or manual calibration?
I run Audyssey MultEQ (the "regular" version - my next AVR will have XT32), and then tweak using an SPL meter. I get a nice, fairly-flat curve down to ~17Hz.
Quote:
I wanted to make the sub crawl thing, but since i did the front unit and the complete room before i bought the subs, if i do it now and the best place would be different from the front, i am screwed. ... BTW you think i am doing a mistake becasue the subs are all situated in the front unit itself, and not on the floor. You think i should cut out the unit so that the subs basically sit on the carpet floor instead?
"The best place" and "the place that works best" are not always going to be the same place. IMO, if your subs sound good where they are, leave them there and enjoy. If you need to satisfy your curiosity, pull the subs out of the unit and see if they sound any better that way. If they do, you may want to cut out the unit, but then there's no guarantee that the subs will sound *as* good once you slide them back into the new recesses.

So, c'mon, let's see some pics! smile.gif
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post #21 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

I run Audyssey MultEQ (the "regular" version - my next AVR will have XT32), and then tweak using an SPL meter. I get a nice, fairly-flat curve down to ~17Hz.

"The best place" and "the place that works best" are not always going to be the same place. IMO, if your subs sound good where they are, leave them there and enjoy. If you need to satisfy your curiosity, pull the subs out of the unit and see if they sound any better that way. If they do, you may want to cut out the unit, but then there's no guarantee that the subs will sound *as* good once you slide them back into the new recesses.

So, c'mon, let's see some pics! smile.gif
I have the Onkyo PR-SC5508 and run XT32 usually, but not so sure about the benefit of it all, plus a good halve an hour to setup. Wanna learn how to use REW but have no time.Spot on my friend. Better leave something sounding good as it is! I will find time to take some pics for your opinion but obviously i am still working right now so cannot do it from here.
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post #22 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 08:33 AM
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I will find time to take some pics for your opinion but obviously i am still working right now so cannot do it from here.
Work before play - what kind of prioritization is that?! rolleyes.gifwink.gif

BTW, I just did some Googling on Marsaxlokk. It looks like a nice town! I particularly like the colourfulness of the ships in the harbour... smile.gif
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post #23 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Work before play - what kind of prioritization is that?! rolleyes.gifwink.gif
BTW, I just did some Googling on Marsaxlokk. It looks like a nice town! I particularly like the colourfulness of the ships in the harbour... smile.gif

Yeah, you should come over, but if you do so do not come over at this time of the year.........today the temp was 41 Celcius and right now it is still as hot as hell! Nice fishing village my friend very old style.
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post #24 of 35 Old 07-12-2012, 09:44 AM
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That's good and hot! A little too hot for my liking, though - I'm happier at ~25°C. smile.gif
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post #25 of 35 Old 07-13-2012, 02:34 AM - Thread Starter
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That's good and hot! A little too hot for my liking, though - I'm happier at ~25°C. smile.gif
Did Audessey yesterday and sound is quite good i must admit. what i cannot understand is that the D600 when calibrating with Audessey i had to take it down to -12 on the sub level, the same happened with the D650, all the way down, but after calibration was finished, the processor settings are like this. Sub1 which is the D600 +3 Sub2 which are the dual D650 -7 (which is way too low and almost non working). Seems that Audessey is recognizing the D600 but not the D650. Boqq

Anyway i turned the setting up to 0db and now the sound seems OK, i say it as it was bad but now the sound blows everything away, even the neighbours i think and also the soffit. Wife says that soon i will get arrested about all the noise haha! But as you told me, i am already thinking of a way to put another D600 in my room and get rid of both the D650 and stay with two subs. Will keep you posted and please check your personal messages i left you 3 images. thanks.
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post #26 of 35 Old 07-13-2012, 04:57 AM
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Sub1 which is the D600 +3 Sub2 which are the dual D650 -7 (which is way too low and almost non working). Seems that Audessey is recognizing the D600 but not the D650.
Perhaps the dual subs are registering louder (because of their placement in the front L & R corners) than the single sub (which is in the middle) and Audyssey is compensating for the level difference.
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Boqq
What is "Boqq"? I Googled it but couldn't find a meaning for it.
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Will keep you posted and please check your personal messages i left you 3 images.
I replied to your PM. Thanks for the pics - you've got a nice room there! smile.gif
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post #27 of 35 Old 07-13-2012, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Haha, tought i was speaking in Maltese i guess Boqq is an expression in Maltese which means like when someone is confused. I posted my list on your PM so please read the email. thanks.
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post #28 of 35 Old 07-13-2012, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys,

when you calibrate using Audessey XT32, do you still check levels with an SPL meter after? If so, what kind of noise do you use to calibrate subwoofers, the pink noise generated by the amp or processor, or you use some CD specifically with pink noise? I am asking as my SPL meter goes nuts when i try to calibrate the subs via the internal pink noise of the Onkyo, its very erratic and you cannot calculate exactly what is happening as one minute it shows 70db then peaks to 85db. Thanks any help is appreciated.
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post #29 of 35 Old 07-13-2012, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone please?
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post #30 of 35 Old 07-14-2012, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by joebuzz View Post

Guys,
when you calibrate using Audessey XT32, do you still check levels with an SPL meter after? If so, what kind of noise do you use to calibrate subwoofers, the pink noise generated by the amp or processor, or you use some CD specifically with pink noise? I am asking as my SPL meter goes nuts when i try to calibrate the subs via the internal pink noise of the Onkyo, its very erratic and you cannot calculate exactly what is happening as one minute it shows 70db then peaks to 85db. Thanks any help is appreciated.

What SPL meter are you using. It should not move around that much, maybe a tad but not much. My sub moves around a bit but my RadioShack meter is not very reliable for that.

Could be a defective unit. Given what you are reporting you either a) are not used to a calibrated system and should give it some time or b) have a defective unit. Running some of the tests the folks are suggesting (different meter same system and placement, same meter different calibrated system) can help identify/verify the issue is there is one.

Is your system outlined somewhere? Where? If not what are your speakers and other equipment?

EDIT: My mains and surrounds do not bounce around on my meter. Also set the meter on Slow and C weighting.
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