Official Energy and Mirage Subwoofer Owners Thread - AVS Forum
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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It seems as though there isn't an official owners thread for Energy and/or Mirage subwoofers. How that could have happened is beyond me -- seeing as there are so many people own them -- but that appears to be the case. Since there are a tremendous number of similarities between the two manufacturers products the consensus was to have a combined thread, so that's what this is now.

So, to all Energy and Mirage subwoofer owners you no longer need to post about your subs in the Speakers forum. Please feel free to post anything you want here.

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Old 07-18-2012, 06:51 PM
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Thanks Jim!

I'll start off by saying I've had my 1st S10.3 for just over 3yrs now. I have experience with owning subs from 8 to 15 inches over the past 20yrs and really like sweet spot of cost vs performance of the S10.3 IMHO. Not long afterward I added a second S10.3 and was very happy with the results of running dual subs. I move into my new place in under a month and will be running quad S10.3's. I plan on sharing my REW findings and subjective impressions in a dedicated thread comparing the results of running 1/2/3 and then all 4 subs in my listening space which will not be a sealed off dedicated HT, but a pretty average living room which is open to other rooms.

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Old 07-18-2012, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

Thanks Jim!

You're welcome. I found it shocking no one else had made an owners thread yet. It's kinda odd a person who's never even heard an Energy sub had to create this, but it is what it is... smile.gif

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Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

I plan on sharing my REW findings and subjective impressions in a dedicated thread comparing the results of running 1/2/3 and then all 4 subs in my listening space which will not be a sealed off dedicated HT, but a pretty average living room which is open to other rooms.

This thread was started for all things Energy, so when you write your evaluation you're more then welcome to post it here. AAMOF, I encourage you to do so instead of starting another thread. That way, anyone looking for information can get it all right here.

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Old 07-18-2012, 08:33 PM
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This thread was started for all things Energy, so when you write your evaluation you're more then welcome to post it here. AAMOF, I encourage you to do so instead of starting another thread. That way, anyone looking for information can get it all right here.

Hi Jim,

I don't normally post in the Energy Owners Thread. I posted the other day to let them know that I thought some of the energy owners may be interested in my results of running multiple S10.3's. I hadn't thought of starting a new post just for this, but It was suggested in the thread that I make my experiment a new thread unto it's own. I got hooked in the idea of multiple subs to overcome the effects a typical room has on the bass frequencies after listening to Floyd Toole on The HTGEEKS podcast and later reading his book.

I am thinking that if I was to post my results in the general sub area, that they may be more useful to a wider group of avs members who do not own energy subs, but are still thinking about trying multiple subs for themselves. I know in a unsealed non-symmetrical room, all bets are off as to the results being repeatable, but I thought it still may have merit. smile.gif
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

It seems as though there has never been an "official" Energy subwoofer owners thread. How that could have happened is beyond me -- seeing as there are so many people own them -- but that appears to be the situation.
So, to all you Energy subwoofer owners... you now have a place to call home. tongue.gif

Great idea, Jim. Although I would suggest calling it the Energy/Mirage owners thread since there are duplicate subs across the two lines--and so I can participate since I have the Mirage Prestige S10 smile.gif

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Old 07-18-2012, 09:21 PM
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Great idea, Jim. Although I would suggest calling it the Energy/Mirage owners thread since there are duplicate subs across the two lines--and so I can participate since I have the Mirage Prestige S10 smile.gif

For sure! I'm listening to great little Mirage S8 right now. The little over-achiever is the reason I got my first Energy S10.3. smile.gif
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Great idea, Jim. Although I would suggest calling it the Energy/Mirage owners thread since there are duplicate subs across the two lines--and so I can participate since I have the Mirage Prestige S10 smile.gif

Oh sure, it's all about Charlie is it? biggrin.gif

I knew some of the Energy/Mirage stuff was very similar (or the same), but I was never really certain how many of the subs were. If the two companies sell pretty much identical stuff then maybe I should change the thread name.

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Old 07-19-2012, 07:30 AM
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The Mirage Omni series is the same basic design as the S10.3/S12.3. The Energy VSW-10 and the Prestige S10 are the same design model. Then there are those small sealed subs, the Mirage MM6 and MM8 which look to be the same as the Energy ESW-M6 and M8.

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Old 07-19-2012, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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To gauge whether or not Energy and Mirage do essentially sell identical subwoofers I did a comparison of their respective (current) product lines. What I found surprised me; turns out they're more dissimilar then similar.

On the left are the subwoofers made by Mirage, while on the right are those from Energy. Where they matched I put them side-by-side. I noted those that either don't match or have no equivalent from the other manufacturer. Here's what I found...
 
  • Mirage            Energy
  • MM-6              ESW-M6
  • MM-8              ESW-M8
  • Omni S-8         No Match
  • Omni S-10        No Match
  • Prestige S-8     No Match
  • Prestige S-10    V-SW10 (virtually identical)
  • No Match         ESW-C8
  • No Match         ESW-C10
  • No Match         EW-100
  • No Match         Energy Power 10
  • No Match         Energy Power 12

As you can see, of the possible 11 products only 3 are actually the same. Those may represent the most popular subwoofers each company sells, but 3 of 11 constitutes just over 25 percent of the total products.

I did check for an official Mirage owners thread, and as with Energy it doesn't exist. I do see a need for a Mirage thread, but looking at the information above I'm not sure the two companies should be in the same thread.

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Old 07-19-2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

  • Mirage            Energy
  • MM-6              ESW-M6
  • MM-8              ESW-M8
  • Omni S-8         S8.3
  • Omni S-10        S10.3
  • Prestige S-8     No Match
  • Prestige S-10    V-SW10 (virtually identical)
  • No Match         ESW-C8
  • No Match         ESW-C10
  • No Match         EW-100
  • No Match         Energy Power 10
  • No Match         Energy Power 12

I added two. Some of the products might be discontinued. The Energy Power series is brand new (and look really cheap frown.gif). I don't know if there were ever any matches in the mirage line for the energy c-series.

There's also the ESW-8HG in the energy take classic set and the nanosat s8 from mirage, and I'm too lazy to see if they're the same.

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Old 07-19-2012, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I added two. Some of the products might be discontinued.

Ironically, the S10.3 is what made me add '(current)' to the original post. I know Energy sells a ton of them, but it wasn't listed on their website. For a discontinued model they sure do have a lot left over it seems.

 
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The Energy Power series is brand new (and look really cheap frown.gif).

Agreed. Did you check the specs? They strike me as a "why bother?" product, to be completely honest.

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Old 07-19-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Ironically, the S10.3 is what made me add '(current)' to the original post. I know Energy sells a ton of them, but it wasn't listed on their website. For a discontinued model they sure do have a lot left over it seems.
 
Agreed. Did you check the specs? They strike me as a "why bother?" product, to be completely honest.

I have to admit, I totally skipped over the word current. But yeah, it definitely seems like they've still got a million left over considering how many places still sell them.

When the Power subs were first announced I did take a look at the specs and found them to be very disappointing.

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Old 07-19-2012, 04:47 PM
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There's also a Jamo sub that appears to be a match for either the MM6 or MM8.

Then there was a different Energy 10" model that was a close match to the Mirage Prestige S10. Then Klipsch discontined both and released the VSW-10 at a higher MSRP.

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Old 07-23-2012, 05:53 PM
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i have to disagree, the S10.3 is Amazing if you can get for 190$. This sub blew my mind for price
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
It seems as though there has never been an "official" Energy subwoofer owners thread. How that could have happened is beyond me -- seeing as there are so many people own them -- but that appears to be the situation.

it's because all of that discussion falls into the Energy Owners Thread in the Speakers sub-forum.

That said, if this thread continues, I do believe you should merge Energy and Mirage. Your list of "matches" is really incomplete especially if you look back historically. Energy and Mirage were "sister" companies under API (along with Athena, now gone).

Some of the newer Energy products (ESW-C10 for example) don't really have matches but that's because Mirage hasn't produced any new subwoofer products in years. Since the Klipsch buyout of these two companies (and the subsequent Audiovox buyout) Mirage and Energy's product offerings have been somewhat crippled, which is why you are seeing these older products (like S10.3) sold at such discount.

If you look at Mirage's subwoofer offerings at their official site, all of the models (the micro MM line, the mid-level Omnis and the high-end Prestige) are all several years old now and all of them have exact Energy matches. http://www.miragespeakers.com/subwoofers/

On your list of matches, you may have missed several because Energy no longer lists these older models as current products whereas Mirage still has them on their website. I'll fill in some gaps for you....


Newer Products: None of these will have Mirage analogues for the above-mentioned reasons.

- The Energy "Power" series are brand-new, garbage offerings from Audiovox that are meant to go with their soundbars and computer speakers. They can be safely ignored in a consumer forum like this one.
- The budget "ESW" subs (like ESW-C10) are also fairly new and come after Mirage stopped putting out new sub products.
- The newer "Veritas" sub (VSW-10) is sort of a redesigned ESW-V sub, for which there was an 8" and 10" version that were direct analogues to the Mirage Prestige.
- The EW-100 is simply a rebranded Klipsch KW-100 that came out of the Klipsch buyout.



"Current" Mirage Products: All of these have Energy counterparts...

- Mirage MM6 = Energy ESW-M6
- Mirage MM8 = Energy ESW-M8
- Mirage Omni S8 = Energy S8.3
- Mirage Omni S10 = Energy S10.3
- Mirage Omni S12 = Energy S12.3
- Mirage Prestige S8 = Energy ESW-V8
- Mirage Prestige S10 = Energy ESW-V10

Plus if you look at the "Nanosub" that comes with the Mirage Nanosats it appears to be nearly identical to the Energy ESW-8 that came with the Take Classic setup.


"Older" Mirage Products: Some of these had direct Energy counterparts, for example the Mirage FRX series was the same as the Energy e:XL offerings (e.g. FRX-S8 = Energy e:XL-S8, FRX-S10 = Energy e:XL-S10, etc.). Mirage did have some unique offerings with their "bipolar" sub lines (BPS) though, and there wasn't any Mirage counterpart to the Energy SX.2 line that came in between the original "S" subs (e:XL) and the SX.3 subs.

Hope that helps!

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Old 07-30-2012, 06:06 PM
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Hope that helps!

Yes, it does - that was a very informative and helpful post, replete with a lot of good information. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

Based upon what you wrote, and the general consensus, it now seems logical that this thread should be shared by the two manufacturers, so I'll go ahead and change the title. I'll also edit the first post accordingly.

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Old 07-30-2012, 08:18 PM
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Hello, I have a question about adding a second subwoofer to my theater setup. Will a second sub added by a splitter cable double the subwoofer out put from a 5.1 receiver or split the output between the two subwoofers with the same net effect? I currently have an energy s10.3 and would like to know if adding a second one would be a benefit or just money wasted. Thanks for your help. I just found that setting all speakers to the small setting really makes a difference in the sub response and want to know if there is any more bass to be had.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Will a second sub added by a splitter cable double the subwoofer out put from a 5.1 receiver or split the output between the two subwoofers with the same net effect?

Essentially yes; adding a second sub will double output.

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Old 07-31-2012, 09:11 AM
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Just picked up a late 1990s Mirage Sub that also had an Energy counterpart. The Mirage is a PS-12-90 and the equivalent Energy model was the AS-90. It was part of a package deal I picked up on Craigslist. The ironic thing is I owned the Energy sub about 15-18 years ago!
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

Will a second sub added by a splitter cable double the subwoofer out put from a 5.1 receiver or split the output between the two subwoofers with the same net effect?

Essentially yes; adding a second sub will double output.

but it should be noted that, assuming you calibrate your system, the final result should be the same overall volume from the subwoofer channel. So essentially you are really increasing the headroom, not the actual output at a given volume setting.

I think the OP may have been asking if each sub gets a signal that is "half as strong", so in that sense splitting the RCA output doesn't limit the signal itself.

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Old 07-31-2012, 05:26 PM
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Just picked up a late 1990s Mirage Sub that also had an Energy counterpart. The Mirage is a PS-12-90 and the equivalent Energy model was the AS-90. It was part of a package deal I picked up on Craigslist. The ironic thing is I owned the Energy sub about 15-18 years ago!

That mirage PS-12-90 was my 1st powered sub I bought. smile.gif
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:38 PM
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but it should be noted that, assuming you calibrate your system, the final result should be the same overall volume from the subwoofer channel. So essentially you are really increasing the headroom, not the actual output at a given volume setting.
I think the OP may have been asking if each sub gets a signal that is "half as strong", so in that sense splitting the RCA output doesn't limit the signal itself.

I was wondering how splitting my single output on my Denon 1909 to 4 subs would effect the signal. I'll be using three Y splitters.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:32 PM
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What would be the proper way to calibrate my receiver? Have just one sub plugged in or use a splitter and have both connected when I run audyssey? Also if I want to buy a second sub, should it be another energy s10.3 to keep it balanced? Also, would I get more bass by just turning up the volume on a single sub rather than adding a second sub if it only adds "headroom"? Any explanation would be appreciated, thank you.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

What would be the proper way to calibrate my receiver? Have just one sub plugged in or use a splitter and have both connected when I run audyssey? Also if I want to buy a second sub, should it be another energy s10.3 to keep it balanced? Also, would I get more bass by just turning up the volume on a single sub rather than adding a second sub if it only adds "headroom"? Any explanation would be appreciated, thank you.

mmbuckwa,

Yes to using identical multiple subs.

In my previous room, I used a y splitter and placed the calibration mic exactly half way in-between my two S10.3's. Some high end avrs can calibrate two subs .

The two ways to use dual subs as I see it are: More output or better quality IMHO.

1. More output

Place two subs in the same corner which in most rooms results in very uneven bass response do to room modes, but you will get more output.

2. Better quality

Two subs can help to tame the uneven frequency response caused by room modes in many rooms if placed properly. With two S10.3.s I got better bass with them in opposite corners. When I say better, the bass was more even in output no matter which seat in the room you sat in and the frequency response was much smoother.




Frequency response with one sub:




1sublazyboy.jpg




Frequency response with two subs:




2subslazyboy.jpg



Some helpful links.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:49 PM
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I'd like to borrow an Energy s10.3 for review. I'm looking to do a small 'shootout' of sorts with measurements of three or four highly recommended budget subwoofers. This particular model has a lot of fans. If anyone in the KC area has one they could spare for a day or for a weekend I'd love to come by and pick it up. If someone is willing to ship me their unit, I'll pay for return shipping. Feel free to PM me if you've like to have your unit measured using omnimic, and compared to other models of equivalent pricepoint.

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Old 08-08-2012, 09:37 AM
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I'd bring all 4 of mine over if you we're in the Seattle area, but you're a little too far away. What will you be testing along side it?
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:23 AM
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I hope you get the opportunity Archaea. It would be very interesting to see you measure and compare to the BIC F12, Klipsch 12D, and other budget subs. When you measure do you note distortion figures as well or just freq response? One of the "positive attributes" often quoted for the recent higher end Energy/Mirage (Sx.3 and the ESW-V / Mirage Prestige) subs is their "musical" or "accurate" output with low distortion and good linearity, which Energy/Mirage claims is enhanced by their patented "ribbed elliptical woofer" design. The common wisdom vs. something like a BIC F12 is that the big budget 12 incher may have more "boom" in that mid-bass, movie thumping range but will be "flabbier" and not as tight and controlled as the S10.3 I'm hoping you have some objective way to measure this and compare so as to establish some pros/cons of the various options.

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Old 08-08-2012, 11:50 AM
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batpig,

I use omnimic and it does have the ability to measure distortion levels. Unfortunately that is not something I can do in room, nor can anyone really. As you turn up the SPL, I think those distortion figures start becoming meaningless in room because the room resonates. My room is all but destroyed for loud music at this point because the 2012 subwoofer meet (specifically the dual orbit shifters) pretty much loosened all my drywall and now it starts vibrating pretty good at low frequencies and high spl - say greater than 105dB ish. I say music, because at those volumes for movies who cares if the room is vibrating - you don't hear the room artifacts in an explosion - or at least they don't bother you, but I do hear the newly acquired room noise in loud music. My room has been reduced to one of those junker cars with two 15's and the trunk rattling like aluminum cans in the back. HA! At any rate - Josh Ricci at data-bass is a much more thorough tester on all regards and includes proper outdoor measured distortion numbers. If you want a proper test - he's your man. I'm just throwing up frequency response depictions in my room which one can compare against other subs I've measured and take it for what it is. My room provides very little room gain compared to other rooms I've measured and so that's helpful to sort of see a worst case picture for typical indoor use. I also don't have any ridiculous room modes in my room which is nice...All in all it's a fairly decent room for gathering a reasonable depiction of expected frequency responses and as I've pointed out in a few threads --- actually surprisingly mostly matches outdoor FR graphs plotted by some of the more detailed testers..

Like Jim, I do subwoofer testing for fun. I've got a couple young kids - aged 10 month and 3 years, a wife who says I already spend WAY too much time on this hobby, and a job that is requiring 50-60 hours per week minimum. I just don't have time, energy, yard/location, nor motivation to go to the length of testing (outdoors) that Josh Ricci does. This isn't a paid vocation, just a fun hobby for me.



toddriffic,

I'm attempting to find a PL200, and a Energy S10.3. I will have access to my brothers Klipsch RW-12D, a Jamo Sub 650 which a friend (tatersly) just bought this week, and a BIC F12 or V1220 or even a DIY setup consiting of a 3.5 cubic foot box with a Dayton Audio Titanik MK3 driver (DIY cost around $350 excluding amp) (KCNitro07), I believe another friend has a popular 12" polk which could be entered into the equation, perhaps even a top end (ha) Onkyo HTIB sub owned by Luke Kamp.

In the mid priced $700 to $1000 range I know quite a few subs in KC I could borrow, but those shootouts have been done more thoroughly and regularly than the budget shootouts at this point. I think my next sub meet I host later this year will likely be a budget sub shootout, since the first one was mostly midpriced - $700-$1000, and the second one was mostly top tier. It be fun to line up some of the subs that cost less than $500 (maybe even as high as $700) and see where they fall out. I've not decided if I should try to acquire these subs for a "shootout" type gathering or just to capture frequency responses and keep it small scale. If you'd be willing to ship me one of your four, I'd be happy to throw it in the mix. I'd pay return shipping and guarantee no damage to your unit. (or I'll buy it if something were to happen).

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Old 08-08-2012, 11:52 AM
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It is great to see so much interest in the Energy subs from some highly esteemed members. For another perspective, the test by Al Griffin, one of the pros at Sound&Vision, may be of interest:

507Energy_3.jpg

The leftmost trace is the S10.3. Very similar to Todd's results smile.gif
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