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post #1 of 30 Old 07-22-2012, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello guys. I'm new here. I'm looking for a new Sub for my HT-System. KI have a polk Rti70 front a fx1000 surround a rt3000 (without the sub)as surround back a cs400 as center and a psw450. But looking for upgrading an to setup a 7.2. HT-System.I need a sub to fill my needs or to replace this one a place two oder.! what sub do I need to macht up with those speakers. I have a 13.5 ft x 16.5. I have a budget of about 300 usd. anyone can help. Do I have to go with polk or anoter sxpeaker. regards Hurbo>
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post #2 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 05:04 AM
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Individuals in this forum like the BIC PL-200 at under $300. They also like the Energy 10.3. The Hsu STF-2 (at under $400) represents a significant upgrade over the PL-200 (according to individuals in the PL-200 who have upgraded) and is very good with music.
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post #3 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 05:05 AM
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Klipsch RW-12d from newegg is on sale right now for $300 at newegg and represents the current best bang for that pricerange. Gorilla83 had both the klipsch rw-12d and the polk psw505. He said the klipsch was noticeably better to the point he'd rather have 1 klipsch than 2 polk subs.

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post #4 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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And how about the Velodyne Impact-12. I saw on Amazone for $209. Which one is better. the BIC, Klipsch HTSU or the polk. I can increase my budget e little bit more, to got a decent sub to fit my speakers and room.
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post #5 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 12:13 PM
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"Klipsch RW-12d from newegg is on sale right now for $300 at neweg"

At the sale price of $300, the Klipsch RW-12d is the value leader.
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post #6 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 12:15 PM
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I don't think you will beat that Klipsch sub deal. The tricky part may be integrating the Klipsch and your existing Polk sub together. Ideally you want to pair subwoofers have similar output and extension so one does not negate the strengths of the other.
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post #7 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote The tricky part may be integrating the Klipsch and your existing Polk sub together. Ideally you want to pair subwoofers have similar output and extension so one does not negate the strengths of the other.[/quote]

So you mean don't mach-up the klipsch with the polk that I already carry. You think one klipsch will rock the wall, considering the measurment of my room. Do I have to mach up the same brand sub. Or can I mach up with another sub tah cost less.
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post #8 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 02:26 PM
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For $300, would you pick the Klipsch RW-12d over the Energy s10.3, for 60% music and 40% movies? I've heard that the Klipsch isn't great for music and has port noise if driven hard, but don't know if it still beats out the Energy
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post #9 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerboy2000 View Post

For $300, would you pick the Klipsch RW-12d over the Energy s10.3, for 60% music and 40% movies? I've heard that the Klipsch isn't great for music and has port noise if driven hard, but don't know if it still beats out the Energy

It's for 80% movies and videoclibs and 20% music. wich one you advise. In anbout the same price range. But I can go a little bit up. As long as I got a decent sub to fit my needs and my HT-room.
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post #10 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 08:02 PM
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Lazerboy

The Klipsch is going to be a better sub than the Energy for both music and movies at equitable volumes. Very clearly. In my opinion the energy sub is a real world $200-$250 value sub on sale for $219. The Klipsch sub is a real world $450-$500 value sub on sale for $300. Ignore MSRPs...they mean very little.

Yes --- My $ values are also made up and represent my own estimation -- but they are based on frequency response capability of both of these subs, and several years of reading reviews around here. The energy is going to have no significant output lower than a smidge over 30hz. The Klipsch is going to have no significant output lower than a smidge over 20hz. That 10hz difference means a great deal in the world of subwoofers - as does the flatter frequency response of the Klipsch. It is worth the extra money and will preform better on music and movies than the Energy.

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post #11 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I read on the internet ( http://home-subwoofers-review.toptenreviews.com/bic-america-formula-series-review.html ) that the BIC f12 is a better sub then the KLipsch.
Considering my setup (have a polk Rti70 front a fx1000 surround a polk rt3000 (without the subs) as surround back a polk cs400 as center and a polk psw450.
(But looking forward for upgrading to an setup a 7.2. HT-System.), what do you think I should choose.
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post #12 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurbodog View Post

I read on the internet ( http://home-subwoofers-review.toptenreviews.com/bic-america-formula-series-review.html ) that the BIC f12 is a better sub then the KLipsch.
Considering my setup (have a polk Rti70 front a fx1000 surround a polk rt3000 (without the subs) as surround back a polk cs400 as center and a polk psw450.
(But looking forward for upgrading to an setup a 7.2. HT-System.), what do you think I should choose.

It doesn't matter what other stuff you have in the realm of mainspeakers. You don't have to match sub brand to speakers. IE you can have Polk mainspeaker towers and use any vendor's sub you want, and they will play nice together. The same does not apply for mixing subs, but primarily because of port tunes. I'll describe that below.

funny you should say you've read that the BIC F12 is better than the Klipsch RW-12D. Where did you read that? What proof did that author have?
I've measured both the Bic F12 and the Klipsch RW-12D and whoever said the BIC is better is wrong on most every count. The BIC F12 represents a good value at the <$200 range. It's a great sub for the price - but it will fade off hard, just like the Energy at a smidge over 30hz.


BIC F12
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1391243/bic-v1220-and-bic-f12-omnimic-frequency-response-graphs/0_20

Klipsch RW-12D
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1390563/klipsch-rw-12d-omnimic-frequency-response-graphs/0_20

I've already told you which direction I would choose. Someone else can give you other advice if you don't like mine. tongue.gif. I'm not discounting other's opinions, there are lots of knowledgeable opinions from experienced members of this forum, but for the $300 sale price that is on for the next couple days ---- I will only recommend one sub at or below $300.

If the Klipsch was selling for $450 or $500 it has some competition to consider. At $300 there is no competition that I'm aware of outside of some other unique sale, or the used market.


Your polk sub most likely rolls off around 30 hz as well if I had to guess, since I don't see any real world measurements. The rub in mixing the klipsch and the polk is that a subwoofer goes out of phase below it's port tune, and since your polk will likely be tuned higher than this klipsch it will kill the klipschs performance from the polk port tune down to the klipsch port tune. Meaning the polk will negate some of the Klipschs sound down low if they are playing together. This means that if you play them both together the frequencies between 20hz and 30hz will most likely sound worse than if you simply played the klipsch sub by itself. Anything above around 30hz will sound better with both of them together. This is tried and true science. You can ignore the way it works, but it isn't to your benefit to have ported subs that don't have matching port tunes. Can you sell your current polk sub and purchase two Klipsch subs with the extra money?

If you are perfectly happy with your current polk sub, but just want more volume, maybe consider just buying a second identical polk sub.

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post #13 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 09:39 PM
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Just ordered the Klipsch. Thank you! I am very excited to have it alongside my TriTrix TL speakers
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post #14 of 30 Old 07-24-2012, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

The rub in mixing the klipsch and the polk is that a subwoofer goes out of phase below it's port tune, and since your polk will likely be tuned higher than this klipsch it will kill the klipschs performance from the polk port tune down to the klipsch port tune. Meaning the polk will negate some of the Klipschs sound down low if they are playing together. This means that if you play them both together the frequencies between 20hz and 30hz will most likely sound worse than if you simply played the klipsch sub by itself. Anything above around 30hz will sound better with both of them together. This is tried and true science. You can ignore the way it works, but it isn't to your benefit to have ported subs that don't have matching port tunes.

On that note, how well do you think a SVS SB12-NSD and Klipsch sub would play together?

 
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post #15 of 30 Old 07-24-2012, 05:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Can you sell your current polk sub and purchase two Klipsch subs with the extra money?
If you are perfectly happy with your current polk sub, but just want more volume, maybe consider just buying a second identical polk sub.

I'm not so happy with the polk sub. That's one of the reason I wanna put a 7.2. setup. If two klipsch is better then two polk sub I will sure do that.
Archaea do you think two klipsch will be better then two polk sub?
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post #16 of 30 Old 07-24-2012, 06:23 AM
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yes

The lower -3db limit on the polk model is at 35hz according to the polk website. That's pretty bad.

The lower -3db limit on the Klipsch is about 20hz according to my testing, and I don't get a lot of room gain in my room at 20hz, so that's pretty much the sub doing that. That's a significant difference.

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post #17 of 30 Old 07-24-2012, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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ok. thanks a lot
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post #18 of 30 Old 07-24-2012, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

The lower -3db limit on the Klipsch is about 20hz according to my testing, and I don't get a lot of room gain in my room at 20hz, so that's pretty much the sub doing that. That's a significant difference.

the size of my room is 16.4 x 13.1 x 8.5. wtha do you think.
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post #19 of 30 Old 07-24-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurbodog View Post

the size of my room is 16.4 x 13.1 x 8.5. wtha do you think.

In a room of that size the Klipsch RW-12D should be just fine, especially for $300.
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post #20 of 30 Old 07-25-2012, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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One other question. Considering my room measurement and equipment, where do I have to put the subs. (7.2. setup)
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post #21 of 30 Old 07-26-2012, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

It doesn't matter what other stuff you have in the realm of mainspeakers. You don't have to match sub brand to speakers. IE you can have Polk mainspeaker towers and use any vendor's sub you want, and they will play nice together. The same does not apply for mixing subs, but primarily because of port tunes. I'll describe that below.
funny you should say you've read that the BIC F12 is better than the Klipsch RW-12D. Where did you read that? What proof did that author have?
I've measured both the Bic F12 and the Klipsch RW-12D and whoever said the BIC is better is wrong on most every count. The BIC F12 represents a good value at the <$200 range. It's a great sub for the price - but it will fade off hard, just like the Energy at a smidge over 30hz.
BIC F12
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1391243/bic-v1220-and-bic-f12-omnimic-frequency-response-graphs/0_20
Klipsch RW-12D
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1390563/klipsch-rw-12d-omnimic-frequency-response-graphs/0_20
I've already told you which direction I would choose. Someone else can give you other advice if you don't like mine. tongue.gif. I'm not discounting other's opinions, there are lots of knowledgeable opinions from experienced members of this forum, but for the $300 sale price that is on for the next couple days ---- I will only recommend one sub at or below $300.
If the Klipsch was selling for $450 or $500 it has some competition to consider. At $300 there is no competition that I'm aware of outside of some other unique sale, or the used market.
Your polk sub most likely rolls off around 30 hz as well if I had to guess, since I don't see any real world measurements. The rub in mixing the klipsch and the polk is that a subwoofer goes out of phase below it's port tune, and since your polk will likely be tuned higher than this klipsch it will kill the klipschs performance from the polk port tune down to the klipsch port tune. Meaning the polk will negate some of the Klipschs sound down low if they are playing together. This means that if you play them both together the frequencies between 20hz and 30hz will most likely sound worse than if you simply played the klipsch sub by itself. Anything above around 30hz will sound better with both of them together. This is tried and true science. You can ignore the way it works, but it isn't to your benefit to have ported subs that don't have matching port tunes. Can you sell your current polk sub and purchase two Klipsch subs with the extra money?
If you are perfectly happy with your current polk sub, but just want more volume, maybe consider just buying a second identical polk sub.


I think a lot of people confuse the Bic F12 with the Bic PL-200. These are NOT the same speaker, the PL-200 is a much better speaker and in a different class from the F12. I have never compared the PL-200 directly with the Klipsch RW-12D, but I would assume they are in the same class or close to it, and it would take some listening to decide between the two. They are also close in price when the RW-12D is on sale, so you probably can't go wrong either way.
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post #22 of 30 Old 07-26-2012, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile2k View Post

I think a lot of people confuse the Bic F12 with the Bic PL-200. These are NOT the same speaker, the PL-200 is a much better speaker and in a different class from the F12. I have never compared the PL-200 directly with the Klipsch RW-12D, but I would assume they are in the same class or close to it, and it would take some listening to decide between the two. They are also close in price when the RW-12D is on sale, so you probably can't go wrong either way.

So you think that the BIC PL 200 wil be just fine vs the klipsch. RWD 12D.
Do yoy know something about the Klipsch Synergy-KSW 12. What about that vs those two above?
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post #23 of 30 Old 07-26-2012, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile2k View Post

I think a lot of people confuse the Bic F12 with the Bic PL-200. These are NOT the same speaker, the PL-200 is a much better speaker and in a different class from the F12. I have never compared the PL-200 directly with the Klipsch RW-12D, but I would assume they are in the same class or close to it, and it would take some listening to decide between the two. They are also close in price when the RW-12D is on sale, so you probably can't go wrong either way.

How about infinity Subs. Does anyone has experience with that brand?
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post #24 of 30 Old 07-26-2012, 07:31 PM
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I own both subs. A pair of Klipsch RW12ds and a pair of BIC PL200s. They have a very similar sound and play great together. I have the 2 Klipsch subs in the front and the 2 PL-200s in the rear of my theater. I run them thru a SMS-1 EQ to flatten the response.

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
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post #25 of 30 Old 07-26-2012, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post

I own both subs. A pair of Klipsch RW12ds and a pair of BIC PL200s. They have a very similar sound and play great together. I have the 2 Klipsch subs in the front and the 2 PL-200s in the rear of my theater. I run them thru a SMS-1 EQ to flatten the response.

And How about infinity Subs. Does anyone has experience with that brand?
Considering my room measurement and equipment, where do I have to put the subs. (7.2. setup)
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post #26 of 30 Old 07-26-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post

I own both subs. A pair of Klipsch RW12ds and a pair of BIC PL200s. They have a very similar sound and play great together. I have the 2 Klipsch subs in the front and the 2 PL-200s in the rear of my theater. I run them thru a SMS-1 EQ to flatten the response.

Hey,

Have you ever measured them solo vs. solo to see the FR on both of them seperately? I'd really like to see how that fleshes out. Would you mind putting one in the same exact spot after the other and capture the FR with your sms-1? The SMS-1 uses a bit too much smoothing to be ideal, but it'll still paint a decent picture of the differences between the two. You'll want to level match them to be the same volume before you take the FR. No emergency --- but sometime when you have some time I'd like to see the differences!

I'd expect that Klipsch RW-12D to have more reasonably more output at and below 25hz, but it'd be fun to see if that's the case --- especially since these subs are both nearly always around the $300 price point.

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post #27 of 30 Old 07-30-2012, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Can any one tell where the best placement for the subs in a 7.2. set-up and equipment, where do I have to put the subs. (7.2. setup).
Considering my room measurement (16.4 x 13.1 x 8.5. ).Where do I have to put the subs.
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post #28 of 30 Old 08-03-2012, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, guys I have looked for the Klipsch RW12ds, but I have found the Klipsch Synergy KSW-12 and Klipsch 350. Do any one have any experience with does sub. Does the KSW-12, give the same sound quality.and what about the SW 350. Would it be a good choice to go for the KSW12 or the 350. or both? to set up a 7.2.?
room measurement 16.4 x 13.1 x 8.5. . Hurbo
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post #29 of 30 Old 08-20-2012, 05:40 PM
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The RW-12D can be found on newegg.com. Once you sign up, ;you can use the special promo codes which will get the price to $300 shipped. As for placement, every room is different. With two subs you have more freedom than with one, though. :You can do the sub crawl, or you can start with where you would like to place them and hope you get lucky. If no luck there, a few basic principles come into play. 1)the closer they are to room boundaries the more their output and extension will be reinforced. So if the bass sounds thin, move them closer to the walls and or corners. If the bass is boomy, do the opposite. 2) you don't want your seating position in the exact middle of the room from the subs. This is where bass will have the most nulls. 3)the closer you are to the sub, the more output you will gain. Some people like to place on sub close (nearfield) and one corner loaded. This will give you both depth and impact...at least in theory.
Doing the sub crawl is the way to find the best spot or spots in the room, so if possible that is where you should put the subs. Of course in the real world that is sometimes impossible.
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post #30 of 30 Old 08-20-2012, 10:58 PM
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The Jamo Sub 650 is another good, inexpensive option at it's current sale price.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1425552/jamo-sub-650-omnimic-frequency-response-graphs/0_20#post_22325869

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