$4000 for 2 subwoofers suggestions - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 07-25-2012, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking to buy 2 subs for our new home theater. I was considering 2 SVS PB13 Ultras, however we have been very happy with our Triad Gold In wall LCR's so I was also considering Triad Platinum DSP subs. I currently own an SVS PB12 Plus/2 which we have been very happy with. The subs will be mostly doing HT duty but there will be some 2 channel music duty as well and I really want the subs to shine there as well. I am open to other suggestions and could probably stretch the budget to 5000 if it would really make a major improvement.
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post #2 of 36 Old 07-25-2012, 09:44 PM
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Wish I could ask the same question. 2 Submersives or 2 Captivators are the leading contender here.
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post #3 of 36 Old 07-25-2012, 09:49 PM
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I'll get the obvious out of the way: two Seaton Submersives or two JTR Captivators. For 6k you could get two Funk Audio 18.0 subs, that is a stretch I would make, but at 5k, its really down to the Submersive or the Cap.

edit: looks like tvoung beat me to it.
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post #4 of 36 Old 07-25-2012, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I would really like to put the subs in the front of the listening area, flanking the tv, so I am somewhat concerned with size. I would like to keep the subs within the size of 27h x 24 d x no limit wide. I could go deeper if necessary. Why do you think the seatons, jtr or the funks would be better than the svs? Do you think the triads are even worth considering? How bout a single paradigm sub2? I think I would rather go with 2 subs, but I am open to anything .
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post #5 of 36 Old 07-25-2012, 11:02 PM
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After getting the chance to audition a Submersive HP not too long ago, that would be my hands down favorite. I used to own a PB13 Ultra and as great as it is the Submersive is better, especially in the SQ department, IMO. One suggestion is to check out the "DEMO your subwoofer" thread here and see if there's anyone in your area that has something that might interest you.

Good luck with your choice. smile.gif
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post #6 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo70 View Post

I would really like to put the subs in the front of the listening area, flanking the tv, so I am somewhat concerned with size. I would like to keep the subs within the size of 27h x 24 d x no limit wide. I could go deeper if necessary. Why do you think the seatons, jtr or the funks would be better than the svs? Do you think the triads are even worth considering? How bout a single paradigm sub2? I think I would rather go with 2 subs, but I am open to anything .

I had a PB13U and wanted to upgrade to see what I was missing. My choices were between a pair of 4000W JTR Captivators, a pair of Seaton Submersives or a Funk 18.3. I ended up getting a pair of SubMersives. My final choice came down to wanting to try a sealed sub and cost and appearance. The Seaton SubMersive is sealed, the JTR Captivator is ported and the Funk 18.3 has passive radiators. Mark offered a deal for purchasing more than one SubMersive, at the time he also had the black oak veneer option at no extra cost, and with it being sealed, it has the potential for getting real low. I loved my PB13U when I had it, but now having the SubMersive I see that the SubMersive offers so much more of what I loved about the PB13U. The SubMersive really is that much better, IMHO. Mark makes an amazing product and I couldn't be happier! Well, I guess I could be happier because I am currently saving up for my third SubMersive. wink.gif You can't go wrong with any of those choices and it really just comes down to personal preference. What ever you pick, I am sure you will be happy.
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post #7 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

After getting the chance to audition a Submersive HP not too long ago, that would be my hands down favorite. I used to own a PB13 Ultra and as great as it is the Submersive is better, especially in the SQ department, IMO. One suggestion is to check out the "DEMO your subwoofer" thread here and see if there's anyone in your area that has something that might interest you.
Good luck with your choice. smile.gif

How do the submersives compare to your LMS Ultras?

 

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post #8 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo70 View Post

I am looking to buy 2 subs for our new home theater. I was considering 2 SVS PB13 Ultras, however we have been very happy with our Triad Gold In wall LCR's so I was also considering Triad Platinum DSP subs. I currently own an SVS PB12 Plus/2 which we have been very happy with. The subs will be mostly doing HT duty but there will be some 2 channel music duty as well and I really want the subs to shine there as well. I am open to other suggestions and could probably stretch the budget to 5000 if it would really make a major improvement.

     you need to read the "rythmik sub" thread on this forum,these are great subs and the value for your money is well within your budget.You can get 4 subs for that amount.The subs are servo control and are great for music if that matters,they perform excellant for any & hi  spl movies .  I have 4 rythmik subs and appreciate the quality subs they are. I have two dual 15" cabinets in front and two sin gle 15's at the rear.And yes paradigm makes a great sub they are servo control, higher price tag yet rythmik is less on price and equal or better in sound. Rythmik has many models to choose from.

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post #9 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 06:30 AM
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In your case another option is to go custom. Check out Funk Audio. The proprietor, Nathan Funk, can build just about anything you might want, so you can get something to match your needs and decor perfectly.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
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post #10 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

Wish I could ask the same question. 2 Submersives or 2 Captivators are the leading contender here.

If it was my $4K, that is exactly what I would do...

Nice problem to have smile.gif

No offense to Triad, because I really like their speakers, but the above two are better bang for the buck IMHO.
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post #11 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies, I will check out the demo thread and see if I can find anything in the Denver area.
Jim
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post #12 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

How do the submersives compare to your LMS Ultras?

Its kind of hard to answer that because the time I heard the Submersive it was at someone else's house. Plus we had 2 LMS's so it wasnt a 1 on 1. I will say though that i was very impressed with the SQ & output of the Seaton, especially considering the very limited setup time spent on it.
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post #13 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 11:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo70 View Post

I am looking to buy 2 subs for our new home theater. I was considering 2 SVS PB13 Ultras, however we have been very happy with our Triad Gold In wall LCR's so I was also considering Triad Platinum DSP subs. I currently own an SVS PB12 Plus/2 which we have been very happy with. The subs will be mostly doing HT duty but there will be some 2 channel music duty as well and I really want the subs to shine there as well. I am open to other suggestions and could probably stretch the budget to 5000 if it would really make a major improvement.
I would consider a couple of these... AVI 10" sub from the AVI ADM9T package.

adm9_subs.jpg

This sub runs around $1700 each.
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post #14 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 12:00 PM
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^^^ is that a serious recommendation? A 10" sub with 200 watts vs the other recommendations for Submersives and Captivators? Unless I'm missing something, these subs aren't even remotely in the same league.
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post #15 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

Wish I could ask the same question. 2 Submersives or 2 Captivators are the leading contender here.
agreed!
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post #16 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 12:19 PM
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Got a cap and when will purchase another when the time, oops, I mean $ is right.

Cannot imagine anyone going wrong with a pair of the above or Submersives for just about any room around.


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post #17 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez View Post

I would consider a couple of these... AVI 10" sub from the AVI ADM9T package.
adm9_subs.jpg
This sub runs around $1700 each.

I wouldn't be surpised to see a "review" of the AVI sometime soon...
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post #18 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

^^^ is that a serious recommendation? A 10" sub with 200 watts vs the other recommendations for Submersives and Captivators? Unless I'm missing something, these subs aren't even remotely in the same league.

That post is from the guy who has a $1200 subwoofer cable for a $600 subwoofer which he placed in a cabinet.
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post #19 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 07:46 PM
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Oy vey. I just saw. I don't like when people rain on a poster's parade when they're all excited about a new purchase and don't want to be that guy myself. That said.....dude, you realize you can spend less than $15 on cables and put that $1400 into a sub that would stomp all over those ones you recommended and kick dirt on the remains, right?

Just sayin.
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post #20 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 09:00 PM
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Two passive JTR Captivators = $3000
http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/

A Powerful Pro Amp = $680 (this is about the closest thing I can currently find to the sweetheart deal that was the Crown XLS-5000 @ $600 from uniquesquared.com)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/cerwin-vega-cv-5000-high-performance-professional-power-amplifier

A MiniDSP = ~$150
http://www.minidsp.com/onlinestore/browse/15-minidsp-in-a-box?sef=hc

or if you don't want a MiniDSP you could pick up a Behringer Mic2200 = ~$100
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ultragain-pro-mic2200

Omnimic = $300
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-792&FTR=omnimic



For right at $4K...This is an incredibly powerful setup with the ability to measure and change FR to match your room.

**********************************************************************************************************************************************


Alternately if you wanted to build your own setup you could do something amazing with DIY drivers and sealed cabs...

Four of these - ~$600
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks/4-sub-flat-pack.html

Finish Paint (similar to linux or rhino liner) - $100 for 5 gallons
http://synta.com/deck-color-selection/

Four of these - ~$2800
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=293-666

One of the Clone Amps - ~$900
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334237/lab-gruppen-fp14000-clone-amplifiers/0_20

MiniDSP - $150
http://www.minidsp.com/onlinestore/browse/15-minidsp-in-a-box?sef=hc

Omnimic - $300
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-792&FTR=omnimic

For a total price of around $5000
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post #21 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 09:14 PM
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What Archaea said!

Also, you say that you like putting th woofers up front. The Caps are known to blow lots and lots of air our of their ports. Many people love that feeling which makes the Caps even better because you don't just hear the sound, but you also literally feel it wink.gif


Ray

Oh and, 1700 each for a 10 inch subwoofer... really???

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post #22 of 36 Old 07-26-2012, 11:43 PM
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Im digging Archaea's #2 option. wink.gif
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post #23 of 36 Old 07-27-2012, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Im digging Archaea's #2 option. wink.gif

Except that his math is off!

4 Ultras run $3,700 vs $2,800. Plus he would need 2 Clones, so add another $900. Total for that option is closer to $7,000 vs. $5,000.

C'mon Dizzel! This is pretty much your exact setup, but with different boxes...lol

With that said, I will advocate Ultras over any other option till the day I die! (unless something better comes along) Dual/Quad LMS Ultras seem to have a 99% satisfaction rate. The 1% unsatisfied are usually the people going from dual to quad. Many (including myself) consider it to be the end-all-be-all of sub choices. Meaning, there is no where else to upgrade when you're at the top!
:-)

 

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post #24 of 36 Old 07-27-2012, 05:43 AM
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Doh

Sorry about the math.


I thought one clone could pretty much get you the power you need? Maybe not to tap out every ounce of potential but to use the vast majority of the subs capability... Especially acknowledging that a doubling of power is just 3db more. But yes I default to the guys with more experience on the clone amps.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #25 of 36 Old 07-27-2012, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Doh
Sorry about the math.
I thought one clone could pretty much get you the power you need? Maybe not to tap out every ounce of potential but to use the vast majority of the subs capability... Especially acknowledging that a doubling of power is just 3db more. But yes I default to the guys with more experience on the clone amps.

That would, in fact, be the case if the LG "Clones" were 2ohm stable as are the $6,000+ authentic LG FP14000 amps. Running quad Ultras yeild either a 8 or 2 ohm load per channel, with 8ohm being the only viable option. 2.8ohm is the lowest one will want to safely push their Clones.

 

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post #26 of 36 Old 07-27-2012, 07:14 AM
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I knew something didn't add up! lol
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post #27 of 36 Old 07-27-2012, 08:18 AM
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darn those dual 2 ohm voice coils.

I was trying to figure out how you could get away with three subs and a single clone amp rather than two clone amps and four subs. -- but it doesn't look very feasible since you'd need to bridge to 3ohm load and if the clone can only do 2.8ohms in stereo config it isn't going to be happy with a 3 ohm bridged load.


JCCbM.png


3_2ohm_dvc_3ohm.gif
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/woofer_configurations.asp?Q=3&I=22#results


I wonder if something like my crown XLS-5000 amp could handle the 3 ohm bridged load of three LMS-5400 drivers. It runs cool as a cucumber with the JTR Captivator two ohm stereo load.




Bah on second thought -- buy the captivators... I love mine! cool.gif

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #28 of 36 Old 07-27-2012, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I am still trying to find a submersive hp to audition, was also going to call Mark Seaton to see if I might stop by since I am in Chicago frequently on business, however I was hoping to get some input on a couple of potential issues with this sub and my ht room. I really do like the idea of going with dual subs in the front of the room flanking the tv, but with the side firing subs, I am concerned that real estate might be a bit tight. How much room do you think I would need on each side of both subs(ideal and minimum)? I was reading about Seaton's new offering the submersive xl(I believe it is called) and was wondering if that might work out better, that would only be a single sub up front so space on the sides would not be an issue. I realize it might be the end of the year before they are available, but I can make due with my plus/2 until then, if it would work better. Also fyi, this is more of a family / ht as opposed to a dedicated ht so sub placement options are very limited. The only other option is on the back wall between the couches, which is where my plus/2 is right now, but it is not an ideal location. So there you have it, dual submersive hp's shoehorned in across the front or a single submersive xl also in the front, on the left side of the tv.
Thanks
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post #29 of 36 Old 07-27-2012, 05:43 PM
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The SubMersive XL is not out yet and I don’t think Mark Seaton has a release date yet. You might want to give Mark a call but I think the 2 HP option might provide a better overall response vs one XL.
The SubMersive HP dimensions are 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H (including feet & grills)
Here’s a quote from Mark from the SubMersive AVS thread in reference to your clearance question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

For clearances, leave 3" in front of each woofer or grill. The amp is not a concern, as you automatically have plenty of room due to the depth of the blue PowerCon connector on the amp and XLR. It is very efficient and really never gets more than warm relative to most amplifiers.

For what its worth I have the Triad Gold LCR (in room) and a SubMersive HP and LOVE what they do for Music and Movies!
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post #30 of 36 Old 07-27-2012, 05:58 PM
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RS15HF x8 $1320

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-468

3.5ft3 flat pack x8 $800 (plus shipping)

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks/35-sub-flat-pack.html

NU6000DSP $500

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=248-6710

Sticking with the DIY theme. Since width is unlimited, have a set of 4 side by side on each side of the screen wired to 4ohm. 1600 watts with full DSP control going to each set of 4 subs.
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