Just toyin with these subs which one?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 07-27-2012, 03:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Bassheads,

I am lookin into replacing my HSU VTF-1 sub.. I narrowed the choice to these two:



http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F15HP.html




or this:



http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb12-plus




Now I have a smaller room but want Alot of bass. I play mostly music with some bluray movies in the mix.. I do play Pipe Organ music so DEEP is a Must down to 16hz some of my stuff goes..

the HSU VTF-1 is a good sub but I want more of what that sub offers..

Now I like the concept of the Rythmik Direct Servo, now my question is this just some gimmick??

I have read good things about the SVS but not sure which of these two would give me more of what I want..

I dont want Boomy clean and tight defined bass while being Loud is what I am after also Deep if that makes sence??

I know my room is small but I bought the VTF-1 cause it complimented my room size 19'x12'x8'.. but it is lacking and I want more bass..maybe i should get 2 of the above mentioned subs??

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post #2 of 16 Old 07-27-2012, 06:00 AM
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I wish I was in your position to decide between these two tongue.gif !! Those are both quite powerful and capable subs. Rythmik and SVS is like choosing between BMW and Mercedes.....they both will perform for the price, but its gonna come down to taste. Here are a couple of good descriptions of the sealed vs ported sub box:

Sealed:
"A sealed subwoofer box will deliver a tight, clean and accurate bass response and have a flat frequency response curve. In general a sealed box will be for listeners looking for sound quality driven system that is clean across the entire frequency band."

Ported:
" Ported enclosures are tuned to a certain frequency range which is determined by the port length, width and diameter. The port can be in several configurations such as rounded or a slot which is narrower and taller. Each subwoofer will have a specific frequency they are designed to run at for maximum output."

From my novice audiophile knowledge I believe that sealed subs seem to be more accurate with less output where as ported subs are more about depth, low bass range, and output..

Not sure if this helps, but hopefully it will get you started. Tons of awesome knowledgeable folks on this board!

Just my opinion ( Id go with the SVS).
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post #3 of 16 Old 07-27-2012, 09:54 AM
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A boomy sub is usually a room problem not a subwoofer problem. The Rythmik or SVS could sound boomy if your room isn't that great for bass. Bass traps in the corners and possibly behind the seating location will help improve the "tightness" of the subwoofer. Its the delay times and decay that makes a sub sound boomy, sloopy, or slow. Start in the corners with super chunk style traps like Gik Tri Traps or Sofit traps or DIY your own, all 4 corners floor to ceiling. Make sure you pay good attention to subwoofer placement and seating location i.e. not in the center of the room or against the back wall. A second sub will help smooth out the Freq response and help with output distortion. Then look into a nice sub eq like Audyssey XT32 or Anti Mode (only works for main LP.)
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post #4 of 16 Old 07-27-2012, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Well the room is not bad considering it it Not treated not reall boomy.. I do have Insulation in the walls which probally helps the sound a little bit..

Now I may look into some basstraps they where not too bad a price but wish they where still a little cheaper..l
I am currently reaning towards the Rythmic..seems to be ported is what I am going to want..

So Lets discuss the Direct Servo gizmo is it a bunch of hype or is there something there??

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post #5 of 16 Old 07-27-2012, 02:20 PM
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In a small room the Rythmik will dig deeper and as long as the room isn't too big the Rythmik will have more output below 20hz. If that's your thing.

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post #6 of 16 Old 07-27-2012, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

In a small room the Rythmik will dig deeper and as long as the room isn't too big the Rythmik will have more output below 20hz. If that's your thing.


Yes the room is 19'x12'x7.5'.. I am also looking into some Acoustic treatment of the room.. I emailed GK Acoustics and see what they have to say.. I had sent in a little diagram of the room too.. Hopefully they will suggest some good Acoustic treatments..

AS for their Corner Bass Traps I have read long time ago that you could just use rolled Insulation in a Cloth casing.. just buy the roll and cover it with cloth is this still a good thing to do or not much use.. would it be wiser to do that Budget minded or just go with the GK Acoustic Bass Corner traps??

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post #7 of 16 Old 07-27-2012, 03:01 PM
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You can do rolled insulation. Roll them in at least 16-18" minimum and put them in a trash bag to reflect highs and them wrap them in a fabric or cloth to match room. With bass traps the larger you go the better. If you don't want to fight with the insulation and all the ichyness than get the Gik traps and they just sit right in place.
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post #8 of 16 Old 07-29-2012, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I was just sitting here Wondering How does One know if the Sub (room) is too boomy.. Is there tests one can perform with a Sound meter to determine some technical info so One can make an educated guess on what to do to fix the room??

I ask cause I will NOT be able to afford those fance analyzers all I have is Test tones and a Sound meter (Radio Shack) But I would like to get the best sound possible with my Budget equipment and some Acoustic treatment..

I always read there was a 40hz drop off or similar and wonder WTH does that mean?? just looking for some technical Facts not some salesmen pitch.. so I can at least sort of do the room treatments professionally as possible and the best I can do with what I have..

I know about the First Reflection point for placing the first Acoustical panel. that will be my start point. I then read one would just need to replace the remainder of the SQ. Ft. of Acoustic panels basically anywhere..

I know what I have sounds good to me. but basically I have never heard what a Professionally done room sounds like.. So I am limited on what it should sound like..

I have a decent Reciever (Marantz 4001) Samsung Blu ray (7.1 Analog for HD Formats) Denon 1930ci (SACD/DVD-A Formats 5.1 analog outputs used) I have some Sony Speakers I know I know but they sound pretty good to me and what I have heard at Some Hi fi stores..Now the speakers do NOT have a Crossover Gizmo. I did try to make one at 1 point but was told I was wasting my time.

I have a HSU VTF-1 Sub which is OK for music kinda sucks for HT.. Except for Pipe Organ music it lacks on Saint Saens Organ symphony I am working on getting a rythmic..

Now where can I read some good But NOT too technical info on Sound treatments and such to be more educated then just saying it sounds ok..

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post #9 of 16 Old 07-29-2012, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

Well I was just sitting here Wondering How does One know if the Sub (room) is too boomy.. Is there tests one can perform with a Sound meter to determine some technical info so One can make an educated guess on what to do to fix the room??
I ask cause I will NOT be able to afford those fance analyzers all I have is Test tones and a Sound meter (Radio Shack) But I would like to get the best sound possible with my Budget equipment and some Acoustic treatment..

Room EQ Wizard from Hometheater Shack is free. All you need is a laptop/computer with soundcard, a Radio Shack SPL meter, and a few RCA cables. Boomy is measureable, is usually called modal ringing or decay times (boomy, sloopy, slow ect..)

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/images/waterfall.png Notice how its a 3D chart and the waves seem to come at you toward the screen that shows excessive ringing which usually results in the boomyness or slow sounding subwoofer.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/images/beforeeq.png Bad

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/images/aftereq.png Good

I am far from an expect at REW and of room acoustics but I've spent a long time trying to get my room just right and use acoustic treatments with great results.
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post #10 of 16 Old 07-29-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

In a small room the Rythmik will dig deeper and as long as the room isn't too big the Rythmik will have more output below 20hz. If that's your thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

Yes the room is 19'x12'x7.5'.. I am also looking into some Acoustic treatment of the room.. I emailed GK Acoustics and see what they have to say.. I had sent in a little diagram of the room too.. Hopefully they will suggest some good Acoustic treatments..
AS for their Corner Bass Traps I have read long time ago that you could just use rolled Insulation in a Cloth casing.. just buy the roll and cover it with cloth is this still a good thing to do or not much use.. would it be wiser to do that Budget minded or just go with the GK Acoustic Bass Corner traps??

Not true. My listening area is 16X14 with cathedrial ceilings that go from 9' to 14+' and then the room opens up to the back 20 more feet with cathedrial ceilings. My FV15 fills the area nicely, and the listening area is awesome!

Jeff
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post #11 of 16 Old 07-29-2012, 09:28 AM
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Yes it is true, sorry. The smaller the room the more room gain you get (usually). Your sub might sound just fine in your room but put it into a small sealed room and you'll get even better performance from it to a certain point. The OP was also looking at a sealed sub F15HP and not the FV15 (ported) like you have, sealed subs benefit from room gain more so than a ported sub. So with room gain a sealed sub can have deeper extension than a ported sub.
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post #12 of 16 Old 07-29-2012, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Room EQ Wizard from Hometheater Shack is free. All you need is a laptop/computer with soundcard, a Radio Shack SPL meter, and a few RCA cables. Boomy is measureable, is usually called modal ringing or decay times (boomy, sloopy, slow ect..)
http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/images/waterfall.png Notice how its a 3D chart and the waves seem to come at you toward the screen that shows excessive ringing which usually results in the boomyness or slow sounding subwoofer.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/images/beforeeq.png Bad
http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/images/aftereq.png Good
I am far from an expect at REW and of room acoustics but I've spent a long time trying to get my room just right and use acoustic treatments with great results.

OK I might have all required to run those tests with room eq program.. I been reading up at the website looks simple enough to use..I watched the Video and read the guide so it look easier then I thought it was..

So basically I do have a stupid question. how does one fix the problems once they are Found..

so for example I know you want to get the graph lvl flat as possible with dips and peaks being bad.. So say I had a dip in the 40 hz range and my set db was 75db bit it went down to 50db what would I do to correct that?? I think that is how it is gonna work basically..

Would getting an EQ be helpfull or are room treatments going to correct these problems I find with Room EQ??

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post #13 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

OK I might have all required to run those tests with room eq program.. I been reading up at the website looks simple enough to use..I watched the Video and read the guide so it look easier then I thought it was..
So basically I do have a stupid question. how does one fix the problems once they are Found..
so for example I know you want to get the graph lvl flat as possible with dips and peaks being bad.. So say I had a dip in the 40 hz range and my set db was 75db bit it went down to 50db what would I do to correct that?? I think that is how it is gonna work basically..
Would getting an EQ be helpfull or are room treatments going to correct these problems I find with Room EQ??


well here was my graph for REW EQ:


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post #14 of 16 Old 08-01-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

well here was my graph for REW EQ:
you need to reposition/relocate your sub.
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post #15 of 16 Old 08-01-2012, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

you need to reposition/relocate your sub.


Well right now it is in the Right front behind the right speaker in the corner.. Where would be an ideal location or would I have to relocate it and take measurments again to see what it did??



Edit: I just moved the sub will test tomoorow in the morning after everybody is up..

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post #16 of 16 Old 08-03-2012, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

Well right now it is in the Right front behind the right speaker in the corner.. Where would be an ideal location or would I have to relocate it and take measurments again to see what it did??
Edit: I just moved the sub will test tomoorow in the morning after everybody is up..


Well I still am at a loss where to place the Sub.. One thread here states in the corner front.. I then read another saying NEVER Put a Sub in the corner??

OK I think I will go back to a near field approach and put it by my couch more towards the back of the room but NOT in a Corner..I think it sounded good there..

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