(Rythmik FV12) vs (VTF-2 MK4) vs (SB12-NSD) ..... or what the heck ... F12SE Signature ($1,000) ? Help. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 07-28-2012, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys .... will try to make this my last thread about picking a sub-woofer. Hope that I can finally decide on what I want/need.

Trying to pick between

(Rythmik FV12) vs (VTF-2 MK4) vs (SB12-NSD) or just the heck with it ... F12SE Signature


So, I just ordered my L/R/C Ascend Sierra-1 NrT Speakers ($1,750 total cost)
For Subwoofer and surrounds I am using my Onkyo HTiB that I bought 12 years ago for $600.
My Receiver is Yamaha RX-V465

My room .... 12 x 18 and 8.5 Ceilings. Room opens up to a halfway that's about 8x8 and the opening is pretty big.

I am in the building so I don't plan to play my system too loud. Can't have my floor shake.

I do 70% movies/TV and 30% music/concerts.

I've had my previous $600 HTiB system for 12 years and hoping to keep the new system for just as long, THUS .... if you tell me that the $1,000 sub-woofer is so much better than the other 3 mentioned, I'd consider the spend. However ... if it's not going to double the enjoyment of a $500 sub, I'd rather stick with a $500 budget.

THANK YOU

P.S. ...... if you suggest Rythmik FV12 ... I have no idea where to buy it.

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post #2 of 50 Old 07-28-2012, 11:48 AM
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This is my first post but I am in the market for a "sub" $1000 sub also. Rythmik is very high on my chart as are the others. I've read nothing to the negative on any of the above, Just can't tell you anything from experience unfortunately.

I see you have Ascend Sierra Speakers. Ascendacoustics is the exclusive distributor for Rythmik subs other than Rythmikaudio. Ascend I believe is in California and Rythmik is in Austin if that matters. I was supposed to be in Austin this weekend and was going to stop by to see if they had any B grades around but trip is cancelled. I still need to make a quick decision. Just pulled the trigger on a 65 Pany so I've got a lot to figure out.

Good luck. I will watch and see what you come up with. wink.gif
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post #3 of 50 Old 07-28-2012, 11:59 AM
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FV12 is our of stock as they are working on a new model. Should be available sometime in September.
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post #4 of 50 Old 07-28-2012, 12:07 PM
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I have a Rythmik FV15 and it's awesome. If you don't want to wait for the new version of the FV12 then look at the HSU

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

or

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

But your options increase dramaticly if you go to $1,000.

Jeff
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post #5 of 50 Old 07-28-2012, 12:09 PM
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I have been wanting to upgrade to dual 15's since my dual 12's just do not cut it in my room. I was looking at a few options and it was down to a pair of VTF-15's or a pair of FV15's or a single Submersive and then I came across Powersound audio and ordered a pair of their XV-15's. It is a gamble considering this is a brand new company, but giving the history of the builders, I am pretty confident they are going to be pretty good. If it were not for this, I was most likely going with dual FV15's.


Impossible to recommend these subs, but something to look into
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/
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post #6 of 50 Old 07-28-2012, 12:14 PM
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The Rumba 12 over at simplysoundaudio looks to be a real beast @ $549 but that monster won't pass the WAF around here so that one is a scratch for me until they offer a screen.
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post #7 of 50 Old 07-28-2012, 03:11 PM
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For a little bit more than the price of the Rythmik F12 SE, you could get an F15, dual SVS SB12nsds, dual Rumba 12s or Epik Legends (though one might be wary of potential amp issues with the Epik). Dual Power Sound Audio XS15 are also an attractive possibilty.
Around $1000 really is a nice place to be for subs. Though dual subs will give more output which you may not need, you will also have smoother in room response and less localization of bass accross more seating positions. This can be enjoyed even at lower volume levels.
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post #8 of 50 Old 07-28-2012, 05:24 PM
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+1 for the PSA XV-15
Under $800 shipped, 500 watts, and response very much like the Hsu and Rythmik but much cheaper. CEA numbers very impressive! wink.gif Or get the XV-30 with two 15 inch drivers for about the price of 1 rhythmik and be done with it. Here is a little right up with Audioholics.....
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/power-sound-audio-xv30-pre

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post #9 of 50 Old 07-28-2012, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matrixj3 View Post

+1 for the PSA XV-15
Under $800 shipped, 500 watts, and response very much like the Hsu and Rythmik but much cheaper. CEA numbers very impressive! wink.gif Or get the XV-30 with two 15 inch drivers for about the price of 1 rhythmik and be done with it. Here is a little right up with Audioholics.....
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/power-sound-audio-xv30-pre

Yeah they are tempting, but I would still wait on Josh Ricci's review before buying.. Just to make sure..

But these look solid.
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post #10 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 06:44 AM
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Power Sound come with a strong pedigree for sure, but it's irresponsible to recommend subwoofers that nobody owns and nobody has reviewed. That's no different from simple name-dropping.

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #11 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Still confused as to which sub i should get :-)

Some suggest a size 15 subs but those are huge. I don't have a huge room and don't want this thing to stick out like a sore thumb. I just want quality sub that would match my Sierras. Being that I am perfectionist in things I care about, and this system should serve me for years ... I am ok with spending a bit more but getting quality. I am trying to not go over the size 12 sub. If I can spend $600 instead of $1,000 and be happy with the sound, I will. But if you guys tell me that the sound quality and accuracy of a $1,000 sub is almost twice as better than the $600 sub, I'll gladly pay $1K.

thanks.

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post #12 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 11:18 AM
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Pianist, since you can not accommodate a large subwoofer, can you swing two smaller ones? If so, I would look at a pair of these Rumba 12s. That'll set you back 1100 shipped, but you will have a nice amount of output, and you won't have to worry as much about room pressurization and localization. If you can only do one subwoofer, you ought to look at the Rythmik F15. If you can swing a tad more than $1k on a sub, I would encourage you to look at the Hsu ULS-15 or Rythmik F15HP, they will have a bit more output, and neither is huge in size.
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post #13 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

Still confused as to which sub i should get :-)

Some suggest a size 15 subs but those are huge. I don't have a huge room and don't want this thing to stick out like a sore thumb. I just want quality sub that would match my Sierras. Being that I am perfectionist in things I care about, and this system should serve me for years ... I am ok with spending a bit more but getting quality. I am trying to not go over the size 12 sub. If I can spend $600 instead of $1,000 and be happy with the sound, I will. But if you guys tell me that the sound quality and accuracy of a $1,000 sub is almost twice as better than the $600 sub, I'll gladly pay $1K.

thanks.

You spent $400+(?) for the Ascend's tweeter upgrade. Perhaps you should have put that $400+ towards the sub(?). But if you can afford both, get the Rythymik F12 or F15. It will be money well spent, imo.
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post #14 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearchan View Post

You spent $400+(?) for the Ascend's tweeter upgrade. Perhaps you should have put that $400+ towards the sub(?). But if you can afford both, get the Rythymik F12 or F15. It will be money well spent, imo.

this one??
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/f12se.html

I see that the F15 is just $100 more. Worth it??? should I go for the F15 ?
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/f15.html

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post #15 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 12:50 PM
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I am looking for a $1000 price range sub as well..

How does the Rythmik FV15 compare to the HSU VTF-15 H?

I am seeing mixed reviews on the HSU VTF-15 H but it seems to have a lot of happy customers...

My room is 18 x 24 feet with standard ceilings but opens to a 15 x 24 foot kitchen..

My Velodyne HGS-15X just went out but worked great for the last 7-8 years with no issues or complaints...

 

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post #16 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearchan View Post

You spent $400+(?) for the Ascend's tweeter upgrade. Perhaps you should have put that $400+ towards the sub(?). But if you can afford both, get the Rythymik F12 or F15. It will be money well spent, imo.

this one??
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/f12se.html

I see that the F15 is just $100 more. Worth it??? should I go for the F15 ?
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/f15.html

Your choice. But at this point, the budget is "blown", so why not spend the extra $100? Call it future proofing. smile.gif
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post #17 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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that's not a problem. Technically I don't have a budget. I just don't want to overspend. Will upping to F15 make $100 worth of sound improvement?

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post #18 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydeluce View Post

I am looking for a $1000 price range sub as well..
How does the Rythmik FV15 compare to the HSU VTF-15 H?
I am seeing mixed reviews on the HSU VTF-15 H but it seems to have a lot of happy customers...
My room is 18 x 24 feet with standard ceilings but opens to a 15 x 24 foot kitchen..
My Velodyne HGS-15X just went out but worked great for the last 7-8 years with no issues or complaints...

Since you're in Southern California you should consider taking a trip to Anaheim to audition the HSU. There are a few of us Rythmik owners locally but I don't know of anyone with a FV15. I was strongly considering the HSU but decided against it because of its size.

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post #19 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 01:33 PM
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Pianist, it seems like you need to nail down some of your parameters before you can really choose a sub. You say you don't want something too big and prefer 12 in driver(s), but the Hsu sub you listed, in my mind at least, is in the larger category. I made a box that size from cardboard last year when choosing a sub and the wife quickly said hell no! Even the F15 is quite large. I think the first question you need to answer is if you want ported or sealed. You are jumping back and forth between both, but it may help you narrow down your options to choose one type of sub. I like the tight sound of sealed subs for music, yet I still get plenty of output for movies which is where the ported subs really excel. Also depends how loud you want to listen and since you are in an apartment, seems like accuracy would be the key. Rythmiks are known for their accuracy so if you can afford the F15 or the slightly smaller E15 then by all means jump on it. Are you going to get twice the accuracy or output compared to the ~$600 options though? In my opinion, no. I have a sealed Epik Legend with Sierra-1's across the front and love it for movies and this system blows my previous speakers and sub out of the water for music.

Again, decide on your max size and ported or sealed and I think it will help you narrow it down.
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post #20 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

that's not a problem. Technically I don't have a budget. I just don't want to overspend. Will upping to F15 make $100 worth of sound improvement?

I don't think there would be an improvement in sound, mainly output.

My "future proofing" comment may apply if and when you move into an larger room or desire for more output.
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post #21 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 02:06 PM
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Do you have shared walls with neighbors? Anyone living above, below, or beside the room the sub will be placed in?
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post #22 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Pianist, it seems like you need to nail down some of your parameters before you can really choose a sub. You say you don't want something too big and prefer 12 in driver(s), but the Hsu sub you listed, in my mind at least, is in the larger category. I made a box that size from cardboard last year when choosing a sub and the wife quickly said hell no! Even the F15 is quite large. I think the first question you need to answer is if you want ported or sealed. You are jumping back and forth between both, but it may help you narrow down your options to choose one type of sub. I like the tight sound of sealed subs for music, yet I still get plenty of output for movies which is where the ported subs really excel. Also depends how loud you want to listen and since you are in an apartment, seems like accuracy would be the key. Rythmiks are known for their accuracy so if you can afford the F15 or the slightly smaller E15 then by all means jump on it. Are you going to get twice the accuracy or output compared to the ~$600 options though? In my opinion, no. I have a sealed Epik Legend with Sierra-1's across the front and love it for movies and this system blows my previous speakers and sub out of the water for music.
Again, decide on your max size and ported or sealed and I think it will help you narrow it down.


Very good point. I know I have not decided on one or another. I care that bass is good for when I hear music in the movies or watch a concert in high deff. I also want good quality bass for movie sound effect. So in a way I am 50 x 50 here. So far leaning towards the F12 ($850) from Ascend distributor. Now .... if an Epik Legend at $500 will not sound 30% worse or be less accurate than Rythmik then I'll gladly spend less. I am at a point where I actually want to order 2-3 subs and see for my self.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Do you have shared walls with neighbors? Anyone living above, below, or beside the room the sub will be placed in?

Yes I do and they get enough of my piano playing :-) though they say they enjoy it

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post #23 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 08:48 PM
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With the shared walls, I am not sure if you will ever really be able to tap into the full potential (output and extension) of some of the larger subs. The SVS SB12 is most likely more than enough. Review from a trusted reviewer:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/sb12-nsd-subwoofer/svs-sb12-nsd-introduction
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post #24 of 50 Old 07-29-2012, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Since you're in Southern California you should consider taking a trip to Anaheim to audition the HSU. There are a few of us Rythmik owners locally but I don't know of anyone with a FV15. I was strongly considering the HSU but decided against it because of its size.

Thank you for your response. I thought of that as I am in Laguna Niguel and Anaheim is only about 30 minutes away but speakers in general and subwoofers in particular rarely sound the same when auditioned in stores as when they do in your home. Someone pointed me to a year old shoot out thread and per private messages it sounds like the HSU is almost as good for music and great for movies where as the Rhthmik is great for music and almost as good for movies. As I can deal with the size ( my family room is converted pretty much to a HT ), I am going to move forward with the HSU. Thanks for your response and thoughts.

 

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post #25 of 50 Old 07-30-2012, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so after a bit of research I got it down to 3 subs that I'll be picking from...........


SVS SB12-NSD ($649)
or
Epik Legend ($499)
or
Rythmik F12 ($874)

All of these are closed subs as I care for 80% music quality and 20% movie special effects.

Now, the question is ... which one will do the job.
I plan to listen to low to moderate sound volume. Can't have my walls shake. Live in an apartment building.

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post #26 of 50 Old 07-30-2012, 09:37 AM
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I know that the Rythmik has a 'Rumble Filter' that can tame frequencies that may bother the neighbors but still provides awesome bass response 20hz and above.

The other two should be solid choices as well; my own sub is a Rythmik DIY sealed 15" and have been very happy with it.

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post #27 of 50 Old 07-30-2012, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

Ok, so after a bit of research I got it down to 3 subs that I'll be picking from...........
SVS SB12-NSD ($649)
or
Epik Legend ($499)
or
Rythmik F12 ($874)
All of these are closed subs as I care for 80% music quality and 20% movie special effects.
Now, the question is ... which one will do the job.
I plan to listen to low to moderate sound volume. Can't have my walls shake. Live in an apartment building.

They will all do the job. Since you are coming from an HTIB sub, you will be ecstatic about the performance of any of those three subs. You can't go wrong smile.gif

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post #28 of 50 Old 07-30-2012, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

They will all do the job. Since you are coming from an HTIB sub, you will be ecstatic about the performance of any of those three subs. You can't go wrong smile.gif

Agree! I just purchased the SVS SB12-NSD (for a music-only system...I've posted about it recently here) and it will do exactly what you are looking for. The Rythmik would be awesome as well, I have to believe. In the beginning, I had it narrowed-down to the Epik or SVS. Ultimately, the recently reported amp failures with Epik left me looking elsewhere; it just seemed like there were way more reports than should be expected; and to me, it doesn't matter if customer service is exemplary. You can get that with other ID sub manufacturers as well, sans the issues reported all too often.

Anyway, the SVS is just an outstanding addition to my system. You cannot go wrong.
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post #29 of 50 Old 07-30-2012, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jsawyer09 View Post

Agree! I just purchased the SVS SB12-NSD (for a music-only system...I've posted about it recently here) and it will do exactly what you are looking for. The Rythmik would be awesome as well, I have to believe. In the beginning, I had it narrowed-down to the Epik or SVS. Ultimately, the recently reported amp failures with Epik left me looking elsewhere; it just seemed like there were way more reports than should be expected; and to me, it doesn't matter if customer service is exemplary. You can get that with other ID sub manufacturers as well, sans the issues reported all too often.
Anyway, the SVS is just an outstanding addition to my system. You cannot go wrong.



Yea I saw same reviews about Epik Legend so that's out of my list.

No it's pretty much SVS SB12-NSD or Rythmik F12

price difference is $225 but I plan to use this thing for years, so extra $200 doesn't scare me. Just want to be sure I need it. Meaning that sound is going to be better.

Denon AVR 4311ci, Ascend Sierra-1 NrT, Ascend HTM-200 (surrounds), Rythmik F12, Sharp LC-80LE650U 80-inch, Samsung BD ES6000, Denon DVD-2910 SACD/DVDa, Monster HTS 5100 MKI, Monster Z2 Biwire, Logitech Harmony One, Sennheiser HD600, Schiit Modi/Vali
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post #30 of 50 Old 07-30-2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

Still confused as to which sub i should get :-)
Some suggest a size 15 subs but those are huge. I don't have a huge room and don't want this thing to stick out like a sore thumb. I just want quality sub that would match my Sierras. Being that I am perfectionist in things I care about, and this system should serve me for years ... I am ok with spending a bit more but getting quality. I am trying to not go over the size 12 sub. If I can spend $600 instead of $1,000 and be happy with the sound, I will. But if you guys tell me that the sound quality and accuracy of a $1,000 sub is almost twice as better than the $600 sub, I'll gladly pay $1K.
thanks.

Let's see: You have modified Sierras and you are a perfectionist. The Rythmik's are known for their exceptionally clean sound due to the Rythmik Servo.

Highly regarded people like Curtis Chang have used Rythmik for years with his Ascend speakers. Curtis is Volunteer Moderator of the Ascend Acoustics Forum.

Also, Rythmik subs are sold by Ascend (from whom you bought your speakers). So, Rythmik seems to be the logical choice.
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