Rythmik F12 ($888). Great for music, garbage for HT ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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The more I read about Rythmik F12, the more I see people picking it when they expect to use it mostly for music. So my question is .... is it really bad for Home Theater effects?

I care about both. My room is about 1800 cu feet.

thanks

P.S. My other choice is SVS SB12-NSD at $650

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post #2 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 09:27 AM
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Garbage isn't the right word; however, a small sealed sub will tend to have less output than a comparable large ported model as you approach the tuning frequency of the ported sub.

Just as an example:

PB12-NSD
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd/PB12NSDCEA2010CHART.PNG/image_view_fullscreen

SB12-NSD
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/sb12-nsd-subwoofer/LSVSSB12NSDCEA2010CHART.PNG/image_view_fullscreen

The PB12 delivers a tad over 11dB more output than the SB12. IOW, you would need a stack of 4 SB12s to get output equivalent to a single PB12 at 20Hz. Of course in a smallish room such as yours, room gain could give a big contribution and a SB12 or F12 could get the job done in spite of the above.
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post #3 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 09:35 AM
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Both are very good smaller subs for music and HT. I think you'll be pleased with either one.

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post #4 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 10:27 AM
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You can probably think of the F12 as a "probably" cleaner sounding version of the SB12. For the higher price, it's got a bit more of everything: features/configurability, deeper bass extension, more overall output, more choices of finishes, heavier duty build.

But it has the same problem as any small sealed sub, it's not going to hit as hard in the low end (20Hz) as other larger ported subs. But to say it's garbage for HT isn't really true. It can still hit pretty hard in the above 25Hz range, and for a smalll room less than 2000 cu feet, it's a natural fit because any lack of very deep bass output is going to be offset by the fact that your small room has room gain which naturally pumps up the very deep bass.

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post #5 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 10:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

The more I read about Rythmik F12, the more I see people picking it when they expect to use it mostly for music. So my question is .... is it really bad for Home Theater effects?
I care about both. My room is about 1800 cu feet.
thanks
P.S. My other choice is SVS SB12-NSD at $650
You can't have best of both worlds. Earlier I thought you wanted more for music rather than HT. Now you want music and HT equally? Make up your mind! tongue.gif

If I were you though, I would concentrate on the music. You're posting in the HT forum, so you gonna hear people recommending you with more and more and more bass output which is stupid. It's quality over quantity. Still many folks don't know that. Overpowering sub will hinder your music quality, thus you won't be able to hear some of the details.

I wouldn't go too loud on the sub. A high quality musical sub with 10" driver should be sufficient for your room.
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post #6 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Overpowering sub will hinder your music quality ...
A good-quality and properly-calibrated sub (or pair of subs) will blend with the rest of one's system and should not affect music quality in any way. (I run dual 18" subs that work very well for both HT and music.)

That being said, a single 12" sealed sub should work well for music in the OP's 1,800 cu.ft. room, and should do a decent job with HT, too. If he's looking for greater HT performance, he might want to consider:
- dual sealed 12" subs;
- a single 12" ported sub;
- a single 15" sealed sub;
- etc.

Options include:
- dual SVS SB12-NSDs
- an SVS PB12-NSD
- an Epik Empire
- a Rythmik F15
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post #7 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

The more I read about Rythmik F12, the more I see people picking it when they expect to use it mostly for music. So my question is .... is it really bad for Home Theater effects?
I care about both. My room is about 1800 cu feet.
thanks
P.S. My other choice is SVS SB12-NSD at $650
You can't have best of both worlds. Earlier I thought you wanted more for music rather than HT. Now you want music and HT equally? Make up your mind! tongue.gif

If I were you though, I would concentrate on the music. You're posting in the HT forum, so you gonna hear people recommending you with more and more and more bass output which is stupid. It's quality over quantity. Still many folks don't know that. Overpowering sub will hinder your music quality, thus you won't be able to hear some of the details.

I wouldn't go too loud on the sub. A high quality musical sub with 10" driver should be sufficient for your room.

+1

Accuracy over output...any day.
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post #8 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 03:49 PM
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Accuracy is good, but it won't matter if you are sitting in a bass null because your sub is incapable of pressurizing the room. Any decent sealed 12" should be able to handle a 1800 ft^3 room though, but you won't have much headroom. As long as you don't listen to anything very loud, you should be OK.
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post #9 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 04:43 PM
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The combination of "Rythmik" and "garbage" in the thread title kind of set my teeth on edge tongue.gif

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #10 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 04:56 PM
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Rythmik's ported designs are incredibly musically, reportedly due to their servo system, high quality components, and great design. So sure a sealed rythmik is a bit more musical than a ported. However the ported Rythmik is more musical than most the competition IMO.

Even the ported goes DEEP, I understand why so many prefer sealed but when the sound quality is this high, I went for the extra output of the ported.
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post #11 of 16 Old 07-31-2012, 05:21 PM
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And again, for $100. more you can have an F15. Worth the extra $100. And you will get more output. My FV15 is a awesome beast that makes movies and music come alive.

Jeff
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post #12 of 16 Old 08-01-2012, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Accuracy is good, but it won't matter if you are sitting in a bass null because your sub is incapable of pressurizing the room.

Shady-does this mean that if your room is fully pressurized it will eliminate bass nulls?

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post #13 of 16 Old 08-01-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Shady-does this mean that if your room is fully pressurized it will eliminate bass nulls?

yes, exactly. That doesn't mean the bass will be even everywhere, but it will mean you will hear bass where ever you are. I have been in rooms where, even when a powerful sub was blasting at the edge of its performance, I was sitting in a place where it was like it was barely even on at all. Bass nulls almost always occur in the center of the room.
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post #14 of 16 Old 08-01-2012, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

yes, exactly. That doesn't mean the bass will be even everywhere, but it will mean you will hear bass where ever you are. I have been in rooms where, even when a powerful sub was blasting at the edge of its performance, I was sitting in a place where it was like it was barely even on at all. Bass nulls almost always occur in the center of the room.

Interesting, thanks. I've never run measurements in my room but have wondered about possible bass nulls. I played a tune from one of those "ultimate car audio bass discs" recently and noticed all three exterior doors flexing and rattling like crazy so I guess I'm good to go WRT pressurization/nulls.

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post #15 of 16 Old 08-01-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Interesting, thanks. I've never run measurements in my room but have wondered about possible bass nulls. I played a tune from one of those "ultimate car audio bass discs" recently and noticed all three exterior doors flexing and rattling like crazy so I guess I'm good to go WRT pressurization/nulls.

I don't think it's as simple as that.

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post #16 of 16 Old 08-02-2012, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

Garbage isn't the right word; however, a small sealed sub will tend to have less output than a comparable large ported model as you approach the tuning frequency of the ported sub.
Just as an example:
PB12-NSD
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd/PB12NSDCEA2010CHART.PNG/image_view_fullscreen
SB12-NSD
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/sb12-nsd-subwoofer/LSVSSB12NSDCEA2010CHART.PNG/image_view_fullscreen
The PB12 delivers a tad over 11dB more output than the SB12. IOW, you would need a stack of 4 SB12s to get output equivalent to a single PB12 at 20Hz. Of course in a smallish room such as yours, room gain could give a big contribution and a SB12 or F12 could get the job done in spite of the above.

A lot depends on how loudly a person actually plays back the content. SInce I listen at 10 to 20 dB below reference, 95 dB clean at 20 Hz is probably adequate. With room gain, the SB 12 might work in my room toward the lower end of my listening scale (which is most of the time), but don't have a good fix on my room gain because my current sub is just not linear enough to even hazard a guess.

But in general accuracy is not bad for HT, although somebody who's used to pushing a distortion factory (like my REL once it gets above 90 dB or so) might think they're missing something when they hear the sound as it was actually recorded . . . . A risk I'm dying to take, except there's a list of other things to get to before sub improvement . . . anybody wanna give away a 66 Vibrolux or a Dr. Z Maz senior, etc? Heck, a VIctoria 45410 would be pretty sweet too. Just sayin'.
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