Subwoofer help choosing - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 07-31-2012, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello, I'm trying to choose between a few subs and wanted some opinions on my narrowed down choices. I'm considering a def tech pro 1000, supercube 2000, or the mirage series 10. I'm trying to keep it under $600 and will have to get it from bestbuy due to their long term financing.

My room size is 13x14x8 with tile floors. I'm going to be using a yamaha rx-a820 receiver with def tech pm1000 for fronts and sats and a pc2000 center. I want a decent sub and due to not knowing much about them I do not want to purchase more than I need. Also, we will be using our system for both music and movies. I know there are probably better subs for the money, but from their specs they all register pretty low in their frequency response, which I think is important?!? Thanks for all of your opinions and help. Now, educate me!!!!
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post #2 of 24 Old 07-31-2012, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Refresh248 View Post

Hello, I'm trying to choose between a few subs and wanted some opinions on my narrowed down choices. I'm considering a def tech pro 1000, supercube 2000, or the mirage series 10. I'm trying to keep it under $600 and will have to get it from bestbuy due to their long term financing.

My room size is 13x14x8 with tile floors. I'm going to be using a yamaha rx-a820 receiver with def tech pm1000 for fronts and sats and a pc2000 center. I want a decent sub and due to not knowing much about them I do not want to purchase more than I need. Also, we will be using our system for both music and movies. I know there are probably better subs for the money, but from their specs they all register pretty low in their frequency response, which I think is important?!? Thanks for all of your opinions and help. Now, educate me!!!!

Why do you need to finance a sub? Thru best buy? I think a lot of suggestions will be that for $600 to pass on those subs and go ID. Good thing to pay cash and not do the debt thing. Just scroll down in this forum for threads discussing the 500-600 price range, there's plenty of them...

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post #3 of 24 Old 08-01-2012, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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You know, this post wasn't for financial advice, so hold the comments on that and respond to the qustion please. If you can't do that, then you have problems I'm buying the speakers at best buy and they are offering three years no interest and I have a couple hundred in gifts cards that have been sitting idle for a year or so. Why wouldn't I take advantage of that. Not everyone is in a financial situation to drop an ungodly amount of money on an audio system. I' m just trying to make sure I'm getting the best products for what I have to work with. Thanks
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post #4 of 24 Old 08-01-2012, 06:11 AM
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To answer your question: for $600 at Best Buy I would either buy the Mirage Omni 10 OR the Klipsch SW-112... IMO stay away from Def Tech subs as they use very small drivers and their freq resp specs are so far fetched. That Def Tech will not hit 20hz at an audible level.

Now if you want my true opinion for $600 buy the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus... It will blow anything away that you will buy at a brick and mortor store for $600.

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post #5 of 24 Old 08-01-2012, 06:28 AM
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sell your gift cards on ebay, and buy elsewhere IMO.

Doesn't even have to be internet direct vendors to beat best buy's models.

The newegg Klipsch RW-12D pair for $600 would be great
The vanns Jamo Sub650 pair for $600 would be great

The aforementioned outlaw or an HSU sub, or an Epik Legend would all be strong single contendors as well.

After spending about 10 minutes looking at everything from $350 to $700 at bestbuy, I don't see anything at best buy that is worth pursuing over the options mentioned above.


The only stuff that would be fun and isn't overly priced is the pro audio gear that they sell online only. Those prices are more competitive with actual value. They would be fun gear and go really loud, but not go that deep. It depends on the size of your room and the expectations for you subwoofer.

Here are some things i thought were interesting from the pro side within your price range.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Cerwin+Vega+-+Junior+Earthquake+18%22+2000W+Folded+Horn+Subwoofer+-+Black/2994321.p?id=1218370117154&skuId=2994321&st=subwoofer&cp=1&lp=15

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Cerwin+Vega+-+Earthquake+18%22+2000W+Folded+Horn+Subwoofer+-+Black/2994367.p?id=1218370121355&skuId=2994367&st=subwoofer&cp=2&lp=10

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Cerwin+Vega+-+18%22+2400-Watt+Powered+Subwoofer/3628366.p?id=1218421870977&skuId=3628366&st=subwoofer&cp=2&lp=9

Outside of pro-audio gear you'd be better buying from somewhere else.


Klipsch SW-112 is decent but it costs $600 and it's worth about $300 (more in line with the Klipsch RW-12D) in my opinion based on the specs and reviews I've seen.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #6 of 24 Old 08-01-2012, 06:00 PM
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Get the best Klipsch sub from them you can get if it must be BB's selection.
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post #7 of 24 Old 08-01-2012, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Refresh248 View Post

You know, this post wasn't for financial advice, so hold the comments on that and respond to the qustion please. If you can't do that, then you have problems I'm buying the speakers at best buy and they are offering three years no interest and I have a couple hundred in gifts cards that have been sitting idle for a year or so. Why wouldn't I take advantage of that. Not everyone is in a financial situation to drop an ungodly amount of money on an audio system. I' m just trying to make sure I'm getting the best products for what I have to work with. Thanks

Sometimes helps if you search and help yourself on the other hand rather than just being lazy in explaining yourself or why people should just "answer the qustion please". You're not getting the best audio products in subs from bestbuy....

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post #8 of 24 Old 08-01-2012, 08:20 PM
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I"ll trade you a BIC V1220 straight across for $200 worth of best buy gift cards :P

Seriously though, I'd look elsewhere, sell the gift cards like Archaea suggested and put the money towards a better sub or a similar sub that costs a lot less.

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post #9 of 24 Old 08-01-2012, 10:06 PM
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The Mirage Omni S10 is equivalent to the Energy S10.3 currently available for $200 (same parent company reusing the same general design). As others are trying to explain, that's what you'll get from the financing at BestBuy: you'll be paying twice as much as you should for a sub.

If one year financing would work for you, then get the Jamo Sub 650 at Vanns for $300. They have 12 months financing.Then you'll be getting an excellent value for your money.
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post #10 of 24 Old 08-02-2012, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Is the jamo a decent sub? I was looking at the hsu vtf-1 mk2. After the responses I received I decided to buy my sub elsewhere (financing not a concern). And someone give "Loveinthehd" a hug as he must have a miserable life if he has to attack people on forums. smile.gif
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post #11 of 24 Old 08-02-2012, 08:48 AM
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I don't think anyone here has heard the Sub 650, but Jamo is a European speaker company who has an excellent reputation for building quality products; Vanns has been occasionally offering blow out prices on Jamo products since Klipsch bought out Jamo. And based on the specs of the Sub 650, it looks to be an excellent deal at $300. If I were in the market for a sub, I would definitely buy it over the definitive technology subs you were looking at. DT over rates their subs in their specs, which is why people are encouraging you to stay away from them at or near their MSRP (which is what BestBuy sells them for).

Another option is to get two of the Energy S10.3s (same as Mirage Omni S10) from Newegg for $200 each, the price of the VTF-1 MK2. The VTF-1 is probably a little better performer than one of the S10.3s, but dual subs are nice because they help give a smoother bass frequency response and can provide better bass across a wider listening area.

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post #12 of 24 Old 08-02-2012, 08:49 AM
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Here's a thread (see the second page of posts) where a couple of AVS members have ordered the Jamo Sub 650 and are waiting on delivery. You might subscribe to it, and then post and let them know you are interested, too.

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post #13 of 24 Old 08-02-2012, 09:01 AM
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The Jamo Sub 650 looks nice from the specs. It would appear a great deal at $300 because the 650 watt plate amp alone is worth nearly the entire $300 pricetag if you were to have to buy a stand alone 650 watt plate amp.

It's unvetted from a measurement perspective, but Jamo generally makes good products and vanns sells Jamo equipment rather unbelievably cheap. Jamo is huge overseas, but relatively unknown in the states. The parent company of Jamo is Klipsch. So figure they will be somewhere in the same realm of quality. Jim Wilson bought one recently to measure it so you might keep an ear open for his review of the Jamo sub 650. He's heard quite a few budget subs and recently started backing up his subjective analysis with frequency response measurements which will make his opinions even more relevant.


EDIT: ha -- cel beat me to my post. we are in agreement.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #14 of 24 Old 08-02-2012, 11:34 AM
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IMHO, the key to deciding whether to purchase this sub is whether you buy it from an authorized dealer like Vanns rather than from a relatively unknown company on Ebay. Such companies are not factory authorized and the buyer does not receive the manufaturer's warranty.

As has been pointed out, at $300 from Vanns, the 650 is certainly worth considering.

What we need is a comparison of this sub with the Klipsch RW-12D. It would be great if Jim Wilson would be generous enough to test the Klipsch RW-12D along with the Jamo 650.

Thanks in advance to Jim. smile.gif
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post #15 of 24 Old 08-03-2012, 02:39 PM
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Jim,

I posted something similar to Spyboy's request in your Klipsch RW-12D general deals found thread. I'd also like to see how the Jamo Sub 650 and Klipsch RW-12D compare as well.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #16 of 24 Old 08-03-2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

The Jamo Sub 650 looks nice from the specs. It would appear a great deal at $300 because the 650 watt plate amp alone is worth nearly the entire $300 pricetag if you were to have to buy a stand alone 650 watt plate amp.
It's unvetted from a measurement perspective, but Jamo generally makes good products and vanns sells Jamo equipment rather unbelievably cheap. Jamo is huge overseas, but relatively unknown in the states. The parent company of Jamo is Klipsch. So figure they will be somewhere in the same realm of quality. Jim Wilson bought one recently to measure it so you might keep an ear open for his review of the Jamo sub 650. He's heard quite a few budget subs and recently started backing up his subjective analysis with frequency response measurements which will make his opinions even more relevant.
EDIT: ha -- cel beat me to my post. we are in agreement.

I was looking for some measured data on this sub, and stumbled upon this:
http://www.salonav.com/arch/2010/04/030-7raz.htm


And google's translation (which is obviously a bit rough):
"Frequency response Jamo Sub 650

The stated lower limit of 24 Hz playback is consistent with the real, but only when working in a narrow band. In this case, adding a level you can get a very deep bass and sound dock with satellites in the 50 - 60 Hz. If selected to work together compact design monitors or acoustic cutoff frequency is better to increase to 90 - 100 Hz. The upper curve is plotted at the correction included Boundary Gain Compensation, which gives rise to the frequency response of 30 Hz by almost 6 dB."


And translation of how the measurements were performed:
"Subwoofer was shot in the near field, ie with the least possible distance between the microphone and the cone head. The measurements were performed several times in extreme positions regulators of the cutoff frequency and at different depths of the correction (if any). The relevant characteristics are shown in the graphs in red. The black curves - AFC reflex port."
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post #17 of 24 Old 08-03-2012, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Ummmm, is this a good or bad stat? No one said I was smart!!!
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post #18 of 24 Old 08-07-2012, 07:56 PM
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The chart provided is pretty terribly scaled. 20dB spacing on vertical axis and the x axis is way off -- who cares what the sub is doing at 200-20,000hz.

That said, It appears the sub is down 6dB to 24hz from 30hz from the text. That's not ideal, but is probably typical of this type of sealed design in an inexpensive subwoofer. It will rely on significant room gain to have a desired flat frequency response if this article is accurate as compared to a ported subwoofer which should be shooting for a flatter response until port tune.


Soon we should have some measurements compliments of Jim Wilson, and we can harvest some additional impressions from his take.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #19 of 24 Old 08-07-2012, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

The chart provided is pretty terribly scaled. 20dB spacing on vertical axis and the x axis is way off -- who cares what the sub is doing at 200-20,000hz.
That said, It appears the sub is down 6dB to 24hz from 30hz. That's not ideal, but is probably typical of this type of sealed design in an inexpensive subwoofer. It will rely on significant room gain to have a desired flat frequency response if this article is accurate.
Soon we should have some measurements compliments of Jim Wilson, and we can harvest some additional impressions from his take.

Yeah certainly a screwy x-axis for a sub plot... And I'd take the measurements with a grain of salt... but I stumbled on it so I thought it was worth posting regardless.

It's 10dB spacing though, not 20dB...
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post #20 of 24 Old 08-07-2012, 08:24 PM
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so it is! Sorry, was looking at it on a projector and misread it. My bad.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #21 of 24 Old 08-08-2012, 06:08 PM
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in that graph, with 10dB spacing, there is NO WAY there is a 6dB drop from 30 to 24....thats like 1-2 dB

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post #22 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, this past Sunday I was suckered into buying the Klipsch Rw 12d on newegg for $299. It was delivered today and the box was beat up pretty good. However, they double boxed the subwoofer with foam packing in between the outer and inner box. The box for the sub looks like its in good condition though. I'm at work and can't open the main box yet to check it out. I hope I made a good decision in getting this sub. If not, I will move it to my bedroom. Will keep you posted!!!
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post #23 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 08:45 AM
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That's an awesome sub for that price. I'm sure you'll be excited by how it sounds smile.gif

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post #24 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 04:36 PM
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We use James loudspeakers EMB1000 and the James Powerpipe with M1000 Sub Amp and all I can say is WOW!!!

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