SVS 16-46 Experiences - Mixing and matching? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old 08-02-2012, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cuzed2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 4,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Didn't see any other 16-46 specific threads on here. So I thought I would post to see any other 16-46 owners out there, are able to compare notes?
Especially anyone that might have experience adding other SVS cylinders to supplement their 16-46 "mix".

Currently
My room layout lends it self nicely to 3 cylinders. I currently have "accumulated" an unmatched trio of cylinders
Two in the front corners, a 16-46PC+, and a passive 20-39
and the 3rd unit (disguised as a Pub table) in the back of my room; is another passive 20-39.


My Thinking for a future arrangement?
a pair of 16-46PC+ units up front
and a 20-39PC+ (tuned to 16Hz) in the rear.
My thinking is that I would then have matched 12.3 drivers, and matched 525w bash amps.
Just wondering if this might be a worth-while direction.. ??

Then there is the issue of finding another 16-46PC+ smile.gif

Cuzed2
Check out a video of my theater here
CuznEddy Cinema
Officially Hanesamatized on 8/1/09

cuzed2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 08-03-2012, 09:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Saturn94's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 383
I purchased a single 16-46PC+ not long after this model was introduced and still enjoy it very much to this day. Every once in great while I'll run across a movie that will cause it to bottom out eek.gif Although this is a rare event, it has me considering adding another sub to give me a bit of headroom. BTW, it has never bottomed out with music. Bass response at my listening position is very good even with the single sub.

Like you, I would like to find another 16-46PC+, but I've not had any luck. I wish I had purchased two of them. So I'm very interested in what feedback you get on this thread regarding mixing different subs. Along that same line, I'm interested in your experience mixing different SVS cylinder subs. I prefer to stick with a cylinder sub as it fits my room physically and asthetically much better than a large box.

Also, my 16-46PC+ still has the 12.1 driver. Do you think it would be worthwhile trying a driver upgrade first (12.3)? I contacted SVS and the gentleman said that the 12.3 does have a bit more output and is a bit more resistant to bottoming out, but since it doesn't happen often, in his opinion it wouldn't be worth the cost to upgrade. What do you think?

Saturn94 is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 08-03-2012, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cuzed2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 4,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Saturn,

Your response just made me realize I do NOT have the 12.3 driver (yet?) My 16-46 PC+ is indeed running the original stock 12.1 driver.
I should also mention that I have an open basement floor plan with around 5200cu ft of volume to pressurize. Our usage is 90% movies, 10% music.
I am running an older Marantz limited to Multi-EQ (I'm not bothering with Audyssey)

That said, my experiences so far:
Before I added the 2 additional 20-39s I did have two cases of over-driving the 16-46 (in one case it seemed to have bottomed, and in the other case I popped the fuse).

I then added in the two 20-39s; passive cylinders (powered by a QSC RMX850)
Initially Iused a rat shack meter and played around to try some gain matching (all ports were open on the 16-46, and one port each plugged on the 20-39s).
Next step involved using a Velodyne SMS to do "Eq" them as a single batch.

Where I am now:
The 3 cylinders make for better overall bass in all 4 of my seating positions, and I am no longer over-driving the 16-46.
My tired ears tell me I am getting the strongest most "impactful" base at approximatly ~25Hz.
When I do a bass sweep (for low to high); beginning at 12 Hz doors start rattling, at 16 Hz the rattling peaks, and then everything starts to become audible and according to the Velodyne and my ears; seems pretty flat except for a peak around 25Hz.
I can push that peak down with the Velodyne, however I like the extra impact at 25Hz for movies.

I'm just trying to get an arrangement that is better matched, and will hopefully give me some more bang for the buck - with more impact below 25Hz (down to 16Hz)?

Cuzed2
Check out a video of my theater here
CuznEddy Cinema
Officially Hanesamatized on 8/1/09

cuzed2 is offline  
post #4 of 16 Old 08-03-2012, 12:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Have you though about selling your current older SVS models and using those funds toward the newer PC12 Plus models? You'll get much better drivers and 800 watt DSP amps vs the older drivers and 525 watt amps. Just a though, the older SVS models are tough to find and most do not want to ship them.
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 08-03-2012, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cuzed2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 4,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Thanks gtp

The most economical move at this time is for me to capture an additional 16-46.
However;
For a few more dollars - I've also considered (and in the end might end up going with the PC12 plus units)

Cuzed2
Check out a video of my theater here
CuznEddy Cinema
Officially Hanesamatized on 8/1/09

cuzed2 is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 08-03-2012, 02:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Saturn94's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

Saturn,
Your response just made me realize I do NOT have the 12.3 driver (yet?) My 16-46 PC+ is indeed running the original stock 12.1 driver.
I should also mention that I have an open basement floor plan with around 5200cu ft of volume to pressurize. Our usage is 90% movies, 10% music.
I am running an older Marantz limited to Multi-EQ (I'm not bothering with Audyssey)
That said, my experiences so far:
Before I added the 2 additional 20-39s I did have two cases of over-driving the 16-46 (in one case it seemed to have bottomed, and in the other case I popped the fuse).
I then added in the two 20-39s; passive cylinders (powered by a QSC RMX850)
Initially Iused a rat shack meter and played around to try some gain matching (all ports were open on the 16-46, and one port each plugged on the 20-39s).
Next step involved using a Velodyne SMS to do "Eq" them as a single batch.
Where I am now:
The 3 cylinders make for better overall bass in all 4 of my seating positions, and I am no longer over-driving the 16-46.
My tired ears tell me I am getting the strongest most "impactful" base at approximatly ~25Hz.
When I do a bass sweep (for low to high); beginning at 12 Hz doors start rattling, at 16 Hz the rattling peaks, and then everything starts to become audible and according to the Velodyne and my ears; seems pretty flat except for a peak around 25Hz.
I can push that peak down with the Velodyne, however I like the extra impact at 25Hz for movies.
I'm just trying to get an arrangement that is better matched, and will hopefully give me some more bang for the buck - with more impact below 25Hz (down to 16Hz)?

Thanks for sharing your experience. I also want to keep bass impact down to 16hz like I have now, hence my search for another 16-46PC+. Hopefully someone who has done the upgrade to the 12.3 driver will share their experience as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Have you though about selling your current older SVS models and using those funds toward the newer PC12 Plus models? You'll get much better drivers and 800 watt DSP amps vs the older drivers and 525 watt amps. Just a though, the older SVS models are tough to find and most do not want to ship them.

For budget reasons I'd prefer to keep my 16-46PC+ and add another or upgrade the driver if that would give me what I want. I've not had any luck selling gear, so I'm not too motivated to do that. Also, I'm not sure if the new PC12Plus model is any better than what I have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

Thanks gtp
The most economical move at this time is for me to capture an additional 16-46.
.....

+1

Saturn94 is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 08-03-2012, 03:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Saturn94's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 383
Did a search on the 12.1, 12.2, and 12.3 drivers and came across this post from someone who performed measurements on all three:
Quote:
...Plus 12.3 drivers have a more "rounder" frequency response, just as the dB12.2 driver already had. dB12.1 is more flatter with a sharper "knee".

Even though the shape of the frequency response has changed, the max output at 20 Hz has stayed pretty much the same. So there is no 4-5 dB loss at 20 Hz when talking about the maximum output....

Looks like upgrading the driver may not be an answer for me.frown.gif

Saturn94 is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 08-03-2012, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cuzed2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 4,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Saturn,

Good find.
I think for me; having 3 SVS cylinders with matching 12.1 drivers will remain my preferred, most cost effective, goal. At least for now smile.gif

Cuzed2
Check out a video of my theater here
CuznEddy Cinema
Officially Hanesamatized on 8/1/09

cuzed2 is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 08-03-2012, 03:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Saturn94's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

Saturn,
Good find.
I think for me; having 3 SVS cylinders with matching 12.1 drivers will remain my preferred, most cost effective, goal. At least for now smile.gif

In your experience, would it be worthwhile using another cylinder model with my 16-46PC+ if I cannot find another one?

Saturn94 is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 08-03-2012, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cuzed2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 4,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Without knowing your room volume, layout, and sub placement locations, I "think" you would benefit.

In my case I definitely gained worthwhile headroom (at least for those "most heard" frequencies, ~25Hz).
And I know for sure that I have better distribution throughout the room.

I think having unmatched cylinders means gain matching them will be tricker (unless of course you are fortunate enough to be equipped with Audyssey XT32, that can truly EQ separate subs)

Cuzed2
Check out a video of my theater here
CuznEddy Cinema
Officially Hanesamatized on 8/1/09

cuzed2 is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 08-04-2012, 09:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Saturn94's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

Without knowing your room volume, layout, and sub placement locations, I "think" you would benefit.
In my case I definitely gained worthwhile headroom (at least for those "most heard" frequencies, ~25Hz).
And I know for sure that I have better distribution throughout the room.
I think having unmatched cylinders means gain matching them will be tricker (unless of course you are fortunate enough to be equipped with Audyssey XT32, that can truly EQ separate subs)

I appreciate the great info. I don't have any automatic bass EQ devices, so it's good to know the challenges I may face if I go with a "mismatched" sub. BTW, since I'm satisfied with the bass response I'm getting with my sub's current location (in corner nearest the left front speaker) my idea was to place another 16-46PC+ right next to the one I have to maximize headroom rather than alter response.

While my floorspace isn't that large (L&R speakers are 8ft from listening position, sub is 11ft), the room has cathedral ceilings and has a pretty irregular shape (total volume of all open areas is approx 5500 cubic ft).

Saturn94 is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 08-04-2012, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cuzed2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 4,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 74
saturn,

Seems we have a similar challenge; trying to pressurize a lot of room volume.
If I could start over with what I've learned - I would have built in a baffle wall to allow for an infintie baffle arrangement.

Sorry - I don't have any experience with co-locating the subs..

Cuzed2
Check out a video of my theater here
CuznEddy Cinema
Officially Hanesamatized on 8/1/09

cuzed2 is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 08-06-2012, 05:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Saturn94's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

saturn,
Seems we have a similar challenge; trying to pressurize a lot of room volume.
If I could start over with what I've learned - I would have built in a baffle wall to allow for an infintie baffle arrangement.
Sorry - I don't have any experience with co-locating the subs..

My only regret is not buying a pair of 16-46PC+. Fortunately my single SVS sub does a great job 99% of the time. But it would be nice to make that 100%.wink.gif

Saturn94 is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 08-06-2012, 09:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
raynist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,455
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked: 344
I used a 20-39pc+ with mine and they worked great together.

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
4 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in slanted boxes (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
3 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in Ported Boxes for LCR's
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
raynist is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 08-07-2012, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cuzed2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 4,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Raynist,

Thanks for this input - good to know!
I was the one that was interested in the 16-46 that you recently sold smile.gif
Curious how you're getting along with the 4311?

Cuzed2
Check out a video of my theater here
CuznEddy Cinema
Officially Hanesamatized on 8/1/09

cuzed2 is offline  
post #16 of 16 Old 08-07-2012, 09:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Saturn94's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I used a 20-39pc+ with mine and they worked great together.

Thanks for sharing your experience.smile.gif

Saturn94 is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off