eD A2-300 vs. Hsu VTF-2 MK4 vs. Epik Legend - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 08-03-2012, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm in the market for a new sub since my JBL e250p died. And after looking at quite a few threads, and the possibly outdated craigsub list, I still need some help.

1. I have a max budget of $600, but if a subwoofer shipped is like $608, that's fine.

2. I don't have any size requirements

3. Apartment Living room size is 16' x 17' x 8' or 2176cf

4. 60% HT / 30% music / 10% TV

5. I love bass but usually don't push the volume very high, never above -10dB on my receiver. I'd also like to avoid being evicted from my apartment. But I'd also like a sub I can keep for quite a few years.

6. I'm not picky about looks, so the matte eD sub is just fine

7. I also don't have any particular timeframe, I can wait for and eD to be made, I've heard it can take a while. smile.gif


I have no idea how these subs compare and some people have posted actual response curves that differ quite a bit from what the company says. I think the Elemental Designs may have the best bang for the buck @ $415 shipped. But I'm concerned over their previous amp issues. Some people say they are using Dayton amps. Does anyone know if that's still true?

I could get a B-stock Hsu VTF-2 MK4 for $529 shipped. Is another $100 worth it over the eD?

Or if i spend a bit more the Epik Legend @ $563 shipped looks like a good value also. Although, my primary purpose is HT, I'm concerned about its lower range.

I've also considered the eD A3-300 but for another $185, it didn't appear I'd be gaining that much.

I appreciate any input! Thanks!

Jon
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post #2 of 25 Old 08-03-2012, 01:37 PM
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eD is on the verge of going out of business. The HSU is a much better value than the eD, better amp, more reliable amp, better drivers, better customer service ect... Stay away from eD.
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post #3 of 25 Old 08-03-2012, 01:43 PM
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Far away.

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post #4 of 25 Old 08-03-2012, 01:44 PM
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As someone who used to own an eD A2-300 and now owns the Hsu VTF-15H, stay away from eD for the reasons mentioned above. It can take 5+ months to get your order, there is little to no customer service support (email not returned, phone calls not answered or returned), they don't always honor warranties or respond to warranty issues in a timely manner (sometimes at all). Hsu is the complete opposite. You also get better quality parts as well.

I would also recommend looking at Outlaw as well. A little cheaper than Hsu for similar quality.
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post #5 of 25 Old 08-03-2012, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your quick input!

So I'm thinking no eD haha cool.gif

Between the Epik and Hsu, any input? I may be leaning toward the Hsu at this point, but would either serve my better as it would be used more for HT than music? And also size of room or future larger rooms?

I haven't looked at the outlaw, but now I shall!

ack_bk, I'm so jealous of your 15H.......
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post #6 of 25 Old 08-03-2012, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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The Outlaws look great, but I think they are out of my price range. As are SVS or the Emotiva X-Ref 12...someday perhaps

Sorry to do this, but I have to add the Rythmik FV12 ($565 shipped) to the Epik Legend and VTF-2.

Another thread mentioned the Epik having better SQ and was more comparable to the VTF-3 and was louder at lower frequencies. But then people started saying the VTF-2 was louder at low frequencies. An AVS forum tested the Rythmik FV12 and the VTF-3 with the Rythmic winning.

Some have noted problems (no specifics) with the Epik and Rythmik.

I also know that hardly anyone has actually tested or compared these subs directly/side-by-side and all most of us can really do is speculate and in reality, any one of these sub would be great, but I'd love to hear what you have to say. biggrin.gif

Anyone have any experience with any of these or thoughts??
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post #7 of 25 Old 08-03-2012, 04:15 PM
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Since the majority of your listening is home theater, I would get the HSU VTF-2/4. I'm saying this because I have had (have the Legends, and have had
the HSU VTF2/3).

I have a smaller home theater than your's (only 1400/1500 cu ft) and 2 Epic Legends. They are Extremely good for music, and good for home theater.
Each Legend has a 300w amp and 2 12" drivers. I listen to a lot of music DVD's, and they sound much better than a HSU VTF-2/3. So I'm happy with
what I've got......except that 300w amp gets extremely hot, thus some people have had amp failures. Chad of Epic is very good about replacing the amps,
good customer service in that regard. I have had no amp failures, but with 2 Legends I don't have to drive them very hard.

I've had many, many HSU subs. 2 VTF-1's, VTF-2/3, VTF-3/3 and MBM-12. I picked all these subs in person because I'm local to HSU headquaters. Dr. HSU
and his staff (wife included) are some of the nicest, best customer service people you will ever meet.

Of the all their subs I've had, the VTF-2/3 was probably the best for the $ spent. It is highly underated. Lots of volume for your area and it digs very
deep....If I were you that would be the sub I would buy. IMO

vardo
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post #8 of 25 Old 08-04-2012, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply vardo. It helps that you've own both and are able to provide direct feedback on both. I'll take your word that the VTF2 might be better for primarily HT use, and I'm sure music sounds pretty good as well!

Does anyone else have any experience with the Rythmic FV12? It also looks like a very solid choice with pretty accurate bass??? Any thoughts on which is more reliable or better for HT?
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post #9 of 25 Old 08-04-2012, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublej9886 View Post

Thanks for the reply vardo. It helps that you've own both and are able to provide direct feedback on both. I'll take your word that the VTF2 might be better for primarily HT use, and I'm sure music sounds pretty good as well!
Does anyone else have any experience with the Rythmic FV12? It also looks like a very solid choice with pretty accurate bass??? Any thoughts on which is more reliable or better for HT?

Some one on the Rythmik forum has an FV12 and loves it. His room I believe is the same size as yours, if memory is correct. The FV12 is out of production as of now, they are redesigning it. It just might be worth the wait. My FV15 is OUTSTANDING to say the least. If you can't or don't want to wait then go for the HSU.

Jeff
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post #10 of 25 Old 08-05-2012, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Yea the FV12 also sounds great. It seems like he owners of each of these subs love them. Which is great, but doesn't always help the potential buyer!

Do you think the FV 12 will be $499 when it's back in stock or will it go back up to $549? I might also wait until there are Outlaw LFM-1+ B-stock is back in stock?
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post #11 of 25 Old 08-05-2012, 11:07 AM
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I had the MK 2,3 and in about that same sized room it sounded amazing! Fantastic for both music and HT. What i like about the Hsu is the midbass for music and movies. The sub will knock down pictures from your walls when watching movies for the first time...so be ready to get the caulking gun and weather stripping for window rattles and door rattles..reminds of the rattle tests for subs. And oh yea, you will feel punches etc and different types of resonating bass depending what the director intended you to hear, You will have trouble going to a real theater after a listen. biggrin.gif

matrixj
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post #12 of 25 Old 08-05-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublej9886 View Post

The Outlaws look great, but I think they are out of my price range. As are SVS or the Emotiva X-Ref 12...someday perhaps
Sorry to do this, but I have to add the Rythmik FV12 ($565 shipped) to the Epik Legend and VTF-2.
Another thread mentioned the Epik having better SQ and was more comparable to the VTF-3 and was louder at lower frequencies. But then people started saying the VTF-2 was louder at low frequencies. An AVS forum tested the Rythmik FV12 and the VTF-3 with the Rythmic winning.
Some have noted problems (no specifics) with the Epik and Rythmik.
I also know that hardly anyone has actually tested or compared these subs directly/side-by-side and all most of us can really do is speculate and in reality, any one of these sub would be great, but I'd love to hear what you have to say. biggrin.gif
Anyone have any experience with any of these or thoughts??

I have compared some of these subs here. I can also tell you there is no way a Legend will be louder than a VTF3 at lower frequencies, guaranteed, the designs prohibit that. On the other hand, its quite possible that the Legend might have more output at 60 hz and over.
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post #13 of 25 Old 08-05-2012, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I have compared some of these subs here. .

I actually just read this today, great job by the way, but still left myself wondering what to do. I was impressed by your account of the Rythmik during the trainstart file, and the few movie scenes. It really has me intrigued and am thinking twice about the Rythmik. But I'm a little concerned about the Rythmik's power, and the ability to hit the lowest of lows in movies vs. the VTF2 and Outlaws from your review. I have also read that the FV12 compares better to the VTF3 but at a lower price. So would it be stupid to choose the VTF2.4 over the FV12?
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post #14 of 25 Old 08-05-2012, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublej9886 View Post

I actually just read this today, great job by the way, but still left myself wondering what to do. I was impressed by your account of the Rythmik during the trainstart file, and the few movie scenes. It really has me intrigued and am thinking twice about the Rythmik. But I'm a little concerned about the Rythmik's power, and the ability to hit the lowest of lows in movies vs. the VTF2 and Outlaws from your review. I have also read that the FV12 compares better to the VTF3 but at a lower price. So would it be stupid to choose the VTF2.4 over the FV12?

I'm sure they are both good subs, but keep in mind I haven't heard the VTF2 mk4. The Rythmik has no problems with lows, if that is what you are concerned about. Remember I was using a mk3 Hsu sub, the mk4 subs have Q control that may tighten up the bass even more. I'm sure you'll like either one.
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post #15 of 25 Old 08-06-2012, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The Rythmik has no problems with lows, if that is what you are concerned about.

This is a little confusing. Doesn't the FV12 roll off a little higher than 20Hz? What would constitute a 'problem with lows' more clearly than a rolloff higher than all the other subs in question, especially when the rolloff's slope is of the falling-off-a-cliff variety?

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #16 of 25 Old 08-06-2012, 05:06 PM
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All I can tell you is when I ran 20 hz test tones, it had pretty decent output. I didn't bother to measure it because my SPL meter isn't reliable under 30 hz, and also because it was in room. Also I didn't want to stress the sub too hard because it didn't belong to me. I don't know how it would compare to a VTF2 regarding deep bass, but maybe the VTF2 might have a slight edge due to a larger enclosure. I don't think it would be a huge difference though.
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post #17 of 25 Old 08-09-2012, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone with a outlaw LFM-1 EX confirm whether or not they ever get chuffing from the ports as stated in some threads?
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post #18 of 25 Old 08-09-2012, 02:00 PM
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The Outlaws will chuff, but only at low frequencies at high outputs. If you are going to be really cranking the deep bass, you may end up hearing chuffing. If that concerns you, take a look at the Hsu VTF3, it can be made to chuff, but it is definitely more difficult to do so due to the larger ports.
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post #19 of 25 Old 08-09-2012, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Everywhere i read compares the EX to the VTF3, so would a VTF2.4 be a relative downgrade?
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post #20 of 25 Old 08-09-2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
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Everywhere i read compares the EX to the VTF3, so would a VTF2.4 be a relative downgrade?

I have the 2.3 and 3.3 and I would have to say the vtf 3 does what the vtf 2 can do with less effort. And since I picked up the vtf 3 for a nice price used, I had to run it a few days with both ports open til my plug came from California. A lot louder than the vtf 2 with both ports open. But I run both of mine with one port back and forth. Hard to tell the difference really. I am just throwing that out there for a comparison. The .4 versions have upgraded drivers i think and q control for more control of bass.

butter and jelly please.
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post #21 of 25 Old 08-09-2012, 02:23 PM
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I have a legend and will be getting another one soon. The thing just pounds and its sounds great with music and HT. No problems here either. It by far blends better with my Mirage OMD 15's than my other subs did. I just love the clean sound of the bass.
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post #22 of 25 Old 08-28-2012, 04:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I know this thread is probably dead but I have another question anyway. Outlaw has a sale on the LFM-1 EX shipped for $600...There was a better price by 50 or $100? last black friday. Does any body think they will drop the price any further? Even the B-stok is only $10 cheaper when it's actually in stock.

Or should I just try and get a b-stock Hsu Vtf-2 mk4?

Thanks!
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post #23 of 25 Old 08-28-2012, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublej9886 View Post

I know this thread is probably dead but I have another question anyway. Outlaw has a sale on the LFM-1 EX shipped for $600...There was a better price by 50 or $100? last black friday. Does any body think they will drop the price any further? Even the B-stok is only $10 cheaper when it's actually in stock.
Or should I just try and get a b-stock Hsu Vtf-2 mk4?
Thanks!

600 bucks is lowest prices so far. I don't think you can get better prices, unless it's B stock
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post #24 of 25 Old 08-28-2012, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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That's kind of what I was thinking, it was $549 last year or in January this year, and who knows if it'll go down that far, and really it's not much of a difference. Ppl say at $549 it's a no brainer, and i think 600 probably is too.
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post #25 of 25 Old 08-28-2012, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Ordered the EX, shipping out tomorrow!

Thanks for your help everybody!
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