DefTech Super Cube 8000 Tested By Sound&Vision Magazine - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The deftech isn't really a sealed design, it uses passive radiators. Passive radiators typically exhibit even worse group delay than ported subs, so it might sound better to you, but from a technical standpoint, it may be flabbier than an otherwise equal ported design.

+1

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post #32 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 09:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

+1

Okay, I give. What is group delay and why should I care?

(like I don't have enough loose change running around in my brain)

(be kind, yes, I looked it up and it made no sense)

(group delay sounds like a bunch of dissimilar phase issues, rolled into one bundle)
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post #33 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

no i dont feel you.... the svs sb13u, psa xs15, xs30 and rythmik f15hp, f25, all will stomp a mud hole in that def techs ass for the same or alot less money depending on what ya go with. Its been said by many folks that have owned def tech subs that thier numbers are inflated and dont dig nearly as low as thier rating. if you want one go for it, just forwarning you can do much better with that 1500.00

on a side note, a quality ported sub will sound great for both music and movies, i have had both and many different subs, so thats a myth. Sealed subs work great for deepe extension if the room is small and sealed, or using multiple sealed units in a fairly large size room.

smile.gif

For starters a PSA XS15 for 749.00 shipped has average of 113db ultra low bass and 125db low bass using 1m peak measurements that S&V uses. Not to mention better warranty and outstanding customer service. All the other subs I mentioned will have even more output.

Thanks man. I appreciate you looking out for me. Really do!

Im looking into the SVS SB13-U. I've never seen (in person) or heard it. Maybe i'll add that to my to do demo list, if i can find the damn thing wink.gif

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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

@ Eddie... FYI a Sub using Passive Radiators is a Bass Reflex Design, a Sub using Ports is a Bass Reflex design. Ported and Passive Radiated subs are very similar, both will have higher output around their tuning frequency, but normally the output will have a very steep drop off below the tuning frequency. Yes a passive radiator is tuned to a certain frequency just like a port tube is tuned.

If you want and prefer a Sealed sub that is fine but then you need to get a sealed sub (Acoustic Suspension) not a sub using passive radiators (Bass Reflex). Sealed subs usually consist of a single driver, or a dual driver setup. The most prefered dual driver sealed sub setup is dual opposed (1 front and 1 rear firing or 1left side and 1 right side firing). You may want to check out PSA (Power Sound Audio) the XS-15 is a 15" down firing sealed design and the XS-30 is a dual opposed 15" sealed design. BTW Tom Vodhanel who posted in this thread is 1 of the 2 co-founders of PSA.
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The deftech isn't really a sealed design, it uses passive radiators. Passive radiators typically exhibit even worse group delay than ported subs, so it might sound better to you, but from a technical standpoint, it may be flabbier than an otherwise equal ported design.

u guys are right about the PR not being sealed, technically tongue.gif
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post #34 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 09:33 AM
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Okay, I give. What is group delay and why should I care?
The easiest way to put it is the timing is off.

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post #35 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I see what you’re saying but I can build the same sub you’re alluding to with a quality 15..18” driver. Are you sure you’re talking size of the driver or just the way it’s aligned. Oh and I still find a lower tuned sealed just as good for music imo. cool.gif

Waiting for answer smile.gif

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post #36 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Eddie Arkadian View Post

I'm seriously considering picking this one up, but there seems to be a major lack of first hand experience/ownership, probably to it being a new product.

Does anyone here own the SuperCube 8000? If yes, what are your thoughts on it?

I've owned one for the past 10 months.

Next month (finances willing) will be purchasing a PSA XS15.

Pluses for the SC 8000 are the remote, I use it all the time since my AVR has no easy way to adjust the sub level and doesn't hold different settings for the different inputs.

It has plenty of output (for me in my 1650 cubic ft) for music. Sounds nice with music. Finally satisfied listening to Pink Floyd's "The Wall".

For most movies it does pretty good. But lately I've been watching some 4-5 star master bass movie thread rated movies and have noticed how it produces nothing below 20-25hz. In fact when listening at -5 t0 -10db sound effects below about 20hz triggers the subs limiter.

It seems very well built considering it weighs nearly 15 pounds more than the XS 15 and really only has 2 solid sides (top and bottom).

It's small.

So if I end up with a XS15 and it's as good as Tom says I'll be selling (or trying to sell) my SC. If I can't sell it I might try to see how it would work nearfield in conjunction with the PSA.

Gene

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post #37 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I see what you’re saying but I can build the same sub you’re alluding to with a quality 15..18” driver. Are you sure you’re talking size of the driver or just the way it’s aligned. Oh and I still find a lower tuned sealed just as good for music imo. cool.gif

Big Steve,

Sealed ... goooooooood - in a caveman tone of voice wink.gif

as we all know the driver is just one piece to the puzzle, but relativelty speaking...i was talking about comparison of the same model 10" vs (say) a 15" and the variance in sound reproduction.
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post #38 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

I've owned one for the past 10 months.

Next month (finances willing) will be purchasing a PSA XS15.

Pluses for the SC 8000 are the remote, I use it all the time since my AVR has no easy way to adjust the sub level and doesn't hold different settings for the different inputs.

It has plenty of output (for me in my 1650 cubic ft) for music. Sounds nice with music. Finally satisfied listening to Pink Floyd's "The Wall".

For most movies it does pretty good. But lately I've been watching some 4-5 star master bass movie thread rated movies and have noticed how it produces nothing below 20-25hz. In fact when listening at -5 t0 -10db sound effects below about 20hz triggers the subs limiter.

It seems very well built considering it weighs nearly 15 pounds more than the XS 15 and really only has 2 solid sides (top and bottom).

It's small.

So if I end up with a XS15 and it's as good as Tom says I'll be selling (or trying to sell) my SC. If I can't sell it I might try to see how it would work nearfield in conjunction with the PSA.

Gene

Gene,

Thank you kind sir for replying to my inquiry! You are my hero.

I greatly appreciate you sharing your first hand experience with this sub.

Very interesting that you state it produces nothing below 20-25hz. This is the second time i have heard that this sub has difficulties reproducing LOW frequencies.
Taken directly from Brent Butterworth's review:
When I played the King Kong DVD, the SC8000 pumped out punchy impacts and a decent amount of couch shake during the brontosaurus stampede scene — yet it couldn’t reproduce the deepest organ notes of the Saint-Saëns Symphony No. 3 from the Boston Audio Society’s Test CD-1.

I find this disheartening that DT advertises the sub to hit the lowest of lows yet it cannot reproduce the anything in the low 20's?!?!?! Weird. I would rather buy something underrated than purchase something with overrated statistics. My 2011 BMW 335i X-Drive Sedan for example: Stock it's rated at 300 HP - 300 ft lbs of Torque. BMW is infamousconsiderably understated their numbers...and they proudly stand behind that their vehicles will reproduce those stasted numbers in the WORST CASE scenario...as a consumer i find that very satisfying.

While i won't be listening to 20Hz content around the clock, it's nice to know the sub is going to perform as adversited. Sadly i lost some respect for DT.

Thanks for the review, again your input is GREATLY appreciated!!!
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post #39 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Eddie Arkadian View Post

Big Steve,

Sealed ... goooooooood - in a caveman tone of voice wink.gif

as we all know the driver is just one piece to the puzzle, but relativelty speaking...i was talking about comparison of the same model 10" vs (say) a 15" and the variance in sound reproduction.

Ok sir I guess you answered my question. At least I see through your answer. You can call me little Steve in the future though because I know so little as apposed to what many know. There are some myths out there that I do know of though. Peace ! cool.gif
Quote:
i've always been partial to the sound of 10"...which the larger woofers cannot reproduce, no matter how high end you go.

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post #40 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:16 AM
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I have the DefTech SuperCube 6000. To be honest, I find the sub to be an underperformer. I thought with three "drivers", the sub would be pretty good as it should be able to displace a lot of air for the bass. What I did not take into account is the fact is that smaller drivers means less excursion as compared to a larger driver. The SC6000 performs admirably down to about 30-35Hz, but it is sorely limited below that. Using the EQ in the amp, you can boost the lower bass levels but the manual specifically states that the output will be limited. I find that to be true. Extremely low bass is compressed and output sounds soft.

I opted for two DIY subs, one a 12" Dayton Audio and the other a 15" Dayton Audio. I built the 12" sub first and I can tell you that right off the bat, the 12" sub performed as well if not better than the SC6000 at 1/3 the cost of the SC6000. The bass was lower and the output was higher. With the addition of the 15" driver, the bass in the room is now beyond what I need. The room is rather large (18x28x9') and is too big for a single sub to really "load". I used to have a Sunfire True Subwoofer, then upgraded to triple Polk PSW650s. The Polks performed well in the room, but the bass was non-existent below 35Hz.

Right now, I have the SC6000 back in its original box in the corner of the room.

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post #41 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

Ok sir I guess you answered my question. At least I see through your answer. You can call me little Steve in the future though because I know so little as apposed to what many know. There are some myths out there that I do know of though. Peace ! cool.gif

Myth Buster Steve, i like your style...i really do biggrin.gif

but i still firmly stand behind my statment regarding physics & sound reproduction.
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post #42 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

I have the DefTech SuperCube 6000. To be honest, I find the sub to be an underperformer. I thought with three "drivers", the sub would be pretty good as it should be able to displace a lot of air for the bass. What I did not take into account is the fact is that smaller drivers means less excursion as compared to a larger driver. The SC6000 performs admirably down to about 30-35Hz, but it is sorely limited below that. Using the EQ in the amp, you can boost the lower bass levels but the manual specifically states that the output will be limited. I find that to be true. Extremely low bass is compressed and output sounds soft.

I opted for two DIY subs, one a 12" Dayton Audio and the other a 15" Dayton Audio. I built the 12" sub first and I can tell you that right off the bat, the 12" sub performed as well if not better than the SC6000 at 1/3 the cost of the SC6000. The bass was lower and the output was higher. With the addition of the 15" driver, the bass in the room is now beyond what I need. The room is rather large (18x28x9') and is too big for a single sub to really "load". I used to have a Sunfire True Subwoofer, then upgraded to triple Polk PSW650s. The Polks performed well in the room, but the bass was non-existent below 35Hz.

Right now, I have the SC6000 back in its original box in the corner of the room.

Thanks Jon. Your contribution is helpful.

I think it's time to refocus my efforts.

cool.gif
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post #43 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Eddie Arkadian View Post

Myth Buster Steve, i like your style...i really do biggrin.gif

but i still firmly stand behind my statment regarding physics & sound reproduction.

Hey you're entitled to believe as you will. I generally do more playing, so if I ofended you on-line it was not my intention. I could have sent you a PM just as easy.smile.gif
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post #44 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:34 AM
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Hey you're entitled to believe as you will. I generally do more playing, so if I ofended you on-line it was not my intention. I could have sent you a PM just as easy.smile.gif

offended, nahhhhhh....you're my boy blue
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offended, nahhhhhh....you're my boy blue

I retract my last statement. It's hard being wrong I know tongue.gif

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post #46 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:45 AM
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I retract my last statement. It's hard being wrong I know tongue.gif

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Arnold is Numero Uno



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post #48 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Eddie Arkadian View Post

When I played the King Kong DVD, the SC8000 pumped out punchy impacts and a decent amount of couch shake during the brontosaurus stampede scene — yet it couldn’t reproduce the deepest organ notes of the Saint-Saëns Symphony No. 3 from the Boston Audio Society’s Test CD-1.

I find this disheartening that DT advertises the sub to hit the lowest of lows yet it cannot reproduce the anything in the low 20's?!
While i won't be listening to 20Hz content around the clock, it's nice to know the sub is going to perform as adversited. Sadly i lost some respect for DT.
The deepest notes in that particular recording are an extremely low C, at 16 hz. Not many subs can playback 16 hz at all, so that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad sub. Deftech's claimed extension specs have always been crap though.
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post #49 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Eddie Arkadian View Post

I find this disheartening that DT advertises the sub to hit the lowest of lows yet it cannot reproduce the anything in the low 20's?!?!?! Weird. I would rather buy something underrated than purchase something with overrated statistics. My 2011 BMW 335i X-Drive Sedan for example: Stock it's rated at 300 HP - 300 ft lbs of Torque. BMW is infamousconsiderably understated their numbers...and they proudly stand behind that their vehicles will reproduce those stasted numbers in the WORST CASE scenario...as a consumer i find that very satisfying.

While i won't be listening to 20Hz content around the clock, it's nice to know the sub is going to perform as adversited. Sadly i lost some respect for DT.

Thanks for the review, again your input is GREATLY appreciated!!!

With DT they don't give +/- 3db ratings like most people do. it's really +/- inifinite db ratings. That being said, if you e-mail them and ask them for their +/-3 db ratings (like i did) they show no hesitation giving you their measurements. When I e-mailed them about the SC8000 they gave me 20-120 hz which is consistent with 3rd party measurements. Not saying that's how they should publish their specs, just a little more insight is all.

BMW 335i will put out 300hp crank hp, only about 270 wheel horsepower. it's a similar situation where the numbers depend on how you decide to measure. Not knocking BMW, I'm on my second and looking to get my third biggrin.gif
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I retract my last statement. It's hard being wrong I know tongue.gif

I see you as more of the type of personality that after great deliberation, chooses to go in a different direction. tongue.gif
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post #51 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 12:13 PM
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I see you as more of the type of personality that after great deliberation, chooses to go in a different direction. tongue.gif

Ha ha.. Hey Bee, I dunno man. I was just trying to point something out to him is all. I then go as far as to suggest maybe I should have done it by PM instead of on-line. I then get his come-back. You will notice I stepped in on his post in the ULTRA thread as a gesture of goodwill. I understand why he thinks what he thinks though.. I used to think the same thing possibly. smile.gif

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post #52 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by simp1yamazn View Post

With DT they don't give +/- 3db ratings like most people do. it's really +/- inifinite db ratings. That being said, if you e-mail them and ask them for their +/-3 db ratings (like i did) they show no hesitation giving you their measurements. When I e-mailed them about the SC8000 they gave me 20-120 hz which is consistent with 3rd party measurements. Not saying that's how they should publish their specs, just a little more insight is all.

BMW 335i will put out 300hp crank hp, only about 270 wheel horsepower. it's a similar situation where the numbers depend on how you decide to measure. Not knocking BMW, I'm on my second and looking to get my third biggrin.gif

True, but no company rates their stock production vehicles HP @ the wheels.
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The deepest notes in that particular recording are an extremely low C, at 16 hz. Not many subs can playback 16 hz at all, so that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad sub. Deftech's claimed extension specs have always been crap though.

thanks for the clarification J, you offer a wealth of information.
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post #54 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 03:54 PM
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To be frank, not many mainstream subs (under $1000) can go below 30Hz without distorting. Very few can actually hit 20Hz flat as far as I can think of.

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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